Jacob in Portland, Oregon, listening on Mater Dei Radio, you are on, what's your
objection to the faith for Trent Horn? Yeah, I'm actually wanting to
piggyback on the previous caller who called about the divisive, you know, the
schisms that kind of happened between Protestantism and Catholics.
And maybe, I don't know if this is where he was going, but this is a thought that
came into my mind, is that I understand that you can use reason and Scripture to
support a lot of things, but as a Protestant I tend to have more of a
pious silence on a lot of these things that I feel like the Catholic Church has
really defined in, like, great great scrutiny, that--and I just don't know
where they get that sort of authority, like perhaps, like just an example, the
difference between transubstantiation and consubstantiation, or the fact
that the wafer has to be wheat, and there's just so many things that have
been defined, and I am challenged to to know where that authority comes from in
such great detail. Okay, sure. Well Jacob, it seems to me that
your preference for defining theological truths would be that they're explicitly
described in Scripture, so you wonder how could the Church define certain things
like the essence of transubstantiation, or how--what elements are required at
Mass, because these aren't explicitly described in the Bible. Is that where
you're coming from? Yeah, well I understand tradition and its importance,
and I actually think that you guys have that right on a lot of--as opposed to the
Protestants, but I guess if it's not in Scripture, who gave you that, who gave the
Catholics that knowledge, and how can that be proven that that knowledge was
was given? Jesus. That would be the short answer. What I would say is that
when Jesus founded his Church on the Apostle Peter and the other apostles in
Matthew 16 and Matthew 18, He conferred on to them authority to be able to lead
and teach in the Church and to be the
safeguards and custodians of divine revelation. Specifically in Matthew 16 and
Matthew 18, they are told that the Church is given the power to "bind and
loose," so what Jesus says to Peter, for example, is "Whatever you bind on Earth
will be bound in Heaven; whatever you loose on Earth will be loosed in Heaven."
There is a Protestant Biblical scholar named Artie France who says this
language of binding and loosing goes back actually to Judaism, that rabbis
could send out others to give them--and give them their authority in order to
determine doctrine and practice. So binding and loosing is a way of talking
about how you determine doctrine and practice, because Jesus did not answer
every question we have is not found explicitly in Scripture. For example, here,
two examples I can think--here's a prime example: what are the words a person
should say at a baptism? Scripture does not explicitly describe the words we
should say, or the method we should choose to baptize. Would you agree that's
not explicitly described in Scripture? It isn't. Right, so then, we would then--
somebody has to say, "Well, I have authority to determine this," and
ultimately it's gonna be a Protestant who says, "Well, I have the authority
because I think my interpretation is correct, on what the Bible teaches about
this." And obviously Protestants disagree about the words
that should be used, and especially the method that can be used,
whereas what Catholics would say is, "Well, the Church has been given this authority
to define, to be able to reveal what God has given to us in His Divine Law, but
also the Church has authority to administer Ecclesiastical Law, or law
that helps the Church spread its...spread the Gospel and be able to function." These
would include laws related to, you know, how weddings and funerals ought to be
conducted, or I gotta get--that would be one example there, and other things
related to liturgy or fasting rules, things like this; things
that are not explicitly described in Scripture, which even Protestants
have to have, because Scripture also never tells us how to conduct weddings
or funerals, it never even says anything about people getting married in a Church,
for example. So I would say that the authority comes from the Church, and we
see this in Scripture as a witness to this, but ultimately, though, I would ask,
for the person who says, "Well, I think we ought to be silent on that which
Scripture does not explicitly teach about," I would ask, "Where does Scripture
say we ought to be silent and only believe what's explicitly taught there?" I
would say Scripture actually never issues that kind of a command for us. So
do you see where I'm going with that? Yes. I guess...we only have a few
minutes left, so how about one last thought and I'll try tie it up?
Okay, well...you know what, I'm okay, I think I'm satisfied.
Oh, that's great. I'll tell you what, if you're not, feel free to call back in, would enjoy
continuing the conversation, or if you'd like to hear a little more, check out our
website at Catholic.com, a lot of great resources there.