Good morning and welcome to another episode of Erasmus TV.
It's 75 years after World War II ended in the Netherlands.
Traditionally, 4 May is our Remembrance of the Dead.
But because of the coronavirus, things will be a little different.
Today, my guest is Endowed Professor of Popular Historical Culture and War
Kees Ribbens. Good morning. -Good morning.
Tonight we can't commemorate World War II the way we used to,
together on big squares or at monuments all over the country.
Will this change in commemoration influence the way we commemorate this?
It's hard to tell. It might very well be possible.
But we don't know what the ceremony will look like next year.
Will we go back to what we are used to,
or will it be more similar to what we will experience today?
Things in commemorating do develop over time.
But it's quite difficult to predict how exactly these developments will take place.
How big is our urge to go back to what we think is normal?
I think at this point in time, the urge is quite big.
A lot of people would like to go on with their lives
as they used to know them, as they used to live them.
I think more or less the same goes for commemorations.
We would like to return to the forms, the shapes, the traditions and rituals
that we developed over the years. At the same time, we should remember
that these commemoration ceremonies were not exactly ready once
the country was liberated in May 1945. They developed over time.
After a number of years, decades, they took their current shape.
But they are still open for changes. The way that we commemorate now
does not have to be the same way
in which we will commemorate 10 years from now, or even next year.
They are open to change.
Not everybody may know this, but we have a monument here in Theil Hall
for students who lost their lives during World War II.
This morning, Hans Smits of the Executive Board
placed a wreath on the monument.
How do you commemorate this day? Do you keep a moment of silence?
Yes, I will keep a moment of silence at 8 o'clock this evening, like
many other people in the Netherlands. But I will be at home. Normally,
I go to a local commemoration ceremony here in Leiden, where I live.
That's not possible. But there are all kinds of ways available now
to follow that, using the Internet or TV.
I'm not sure yet which channel or website I'll be visiting, but definitely,
I will be silent for 2 minutes at 8 o'clock this evening.
How special is it that we now live in a time where we all know
that history is being written? -I think the majority of people
currently do have the feeling that they are experiencing history,
they're living through history, much more than in ordinary times.
It also makes clear to people that history is not finished yet.
We don't know where this ends. We don't know how long this will take.
It's very indeterminate.
That's something you might compare with the situation in World War II,
where people were confronted with a lot of uncertainties and
they didn't know how it would end, where it would end, at what cost.
Which doesn't mean, of course, that World War II is the same as
the current coronavirus, but I think it's a natural urge in people
trying to make comparisons between two very outspoken historical situations.
We just saw with flowers a traditional way of commemoration.
Is this also how we will commemorate the coronavirus one day?
My bet would be yes.
It's probably part of a wider panorama of ways in which we commemorate.
Laying wreaths or putting flowers near a local or even a national monument
is an option. Keeping silent for 1 or 2 minutes or even longer is another option.
Erecting monuments itself is something that's quite likely.
Apart from that, there's also a kind of online commemoration culture
that has developed over the years. People build their own websites.
There are digital ways of putting flowers to certain names that are mentioned
on these memorials. And commemorating is not always so institutionalized.
You can also use popular media such as films, documentaries or games
that also can help to pay attention to what happened in the past.
You mentioned games. Games, of course, have a completely different vibe
than putting flowers at a monument. I brought a little example of this.
All gamers will probably recognise this. This is the game Battlefield 5.
As you can see if you live in Rotterdam or know the place, this takes place here.
Is it likely that we will have a corona game, like this WWII game?
I wouldn't be surprised if one or more corona games will pop up,
as it has such a big impact on societies across the world.
I think it's no surprise that it'll find its shape in popular culture.
Maybe not only in games, but also in all kinds of other ways:
in novels, comic books, films. I think they can help. They can add up.
They can contribute to keeping the memory of this coronavirus alive.
The question is whether you can label that as being a commemoration.
I think it's part of historical culture. It's part of the way that we deal
with recent events in our history.
But it's not as solemn as a commemoration where we gather physically in one place.
But one thing can add to the other.
Together, they might help in keeping the memory of this experience alive.
Thank you so much for your time, Kees Ribbens.
Before we end, I want to remind everyone that this Thursday,
we will have the minister of education here in our studio.
If you have questions for her, we will put them to her.
If you have any, you can put them in text or in video, send them to us
by mail to erasmusmagazine@em.eur.nl and we will ask them.
I will see you back here on Thursday
with the minister.