WHO LOVED NATURE, GOD, WHO LOVED
SHOOTING GUNS AND RACING CARS.
NEIL: THIS "WASHINGTON POST"
INTERVIEW WITH THAT SHOWED DOUGH
HIDDENNED YOUNG MAN WAS NOT
INVOLVED IN THE RELEASE OF THESE
DOCUMENT THE BUT HE KNOWS VERY
WELL THE GUY WHO WAS, WHO WE’RE
TOLD WORKED AT A MILITARY BASE,
HAD A HIGH TECHNOLOGY KNOWLEDGE
BASE.
WAS A GAMER WE’RE TOLD AND THOSE
WITH WHOM HE SHARED THIS
INFORMATION WERE GAMERS AS WELL
ON SO-CALLED DISCORD SITE,
ACTUALLY MORE SHOCKINGLY, A LOT
OF THIS WAS BEING SHARED YEARS
AGO.
WE DON’T KNOW WHETHER IT IS ALL
THE MATERIAL WE’RE GETTING RIGHT
NOW THAT ACTUALLY GOES BACK JUST
A COUPLE MONTHS BUT DOES RAISE A
WHOLE HOT OF ISSUES AND THIS
COMMUNITY SEEMED TO KNOW IT,
SOMEONE OBVIOUSLY DIDN’T KEEP A
SECRET.
IT GOT OUT.
I WONDER WHAT MIKE POMPEO MAKES
THIS, FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE
WHO IS KIND ENOUGH TO JOIN US.
SECRETARY WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF
THIS?
THESE THINGS ALWAYS SEEM TO GET
BIZARRE BUT THIS IS REALLY
BIZARRE A GAMER WITH MILITARY
TIES TO A BASE, ON AND ON WE GO,
WHAT DO YOU THINK?
>> NEIL, IT IS BIZARRE.
I THINK THERE IS STILL A TON WE
DON’T KNOW.
ONE MIGHT NOT ACCEPT PRECISELY
WHAT THAT YOUNG PERSON SAID AS
COMPLETELY ACCURATE TRUE,
PAINTING THE FULL PICTURE.
THERE IS STILL LOTS OF PIECES OF
THIS THAT NEED TO BE PEELED BACK
BUT WHAT WE HAVE SEEN, A HANDFUL
OF DOCUMENTS THAT GOVERNMENT
APPEARS, CURRENT ADMINISTRATION
AT LEAST SOME OF THEM ARE
AUTHENTIC.
SO THERE WAS A LEAK.
YOU KNOW THE SUBSTANCE OF THESE
THINGS SO FAR, NOT PARTICULARLY
DEVASTATING, RIGHT?
WE SEE UKRAINIANS ARE RUNNING
SHORT ON AMMUNITION.
THE WORLD KNEW THAT FRANKLY.
THIS IS ONE OF THE THINGS I
CRITICIZED PRESIDENT BIDEN FOR
HE HASN’T PROVIDED THE TOOLS THE
UKRAINIANS NEED ACTUALLY TO BE
VICTORIOUS, THE RISK, RISK TO
UNITED STATES INTELLIGENCE,
CAPACITY TO COLLECT INTELLIGENCE
IS VERY REAL.
IF YOUR FUTURE ASSETS OR FUTURE
FRIEND, WHO YOU NEED ASSISTANCE
FROM, CAN’T TRUST THAT YOU CAN
KEEP YOUR SECRETS, KEEP
CLASSIFIED INFORMATION WHERE IT
OUGHT TO BE, ABILITY TO PERFORM
THESE INTELLIGENCE FUNCTIONS IS
DIMINISHED.
I THINK THERE IS REAL RISK OF
THAT FOR SURE.
I THINK THE ADMINISTRATION HAS
NOT SEEN THE END OF THIS.
MY GUESS, HIKE MY WIFE’S SHOE
CLOSET.
THEY’RE ARE MORE SHOES TO DROP.
I’VE BEEN INVOLVED IN A HANDFUL
OF THESE THAT WE WERE CLEANING
UP FROM.
DIRECTOR BRENNAN’S TIME AT CIA,
TO GET TO THE FULL SCOPE OF WHAT
WAS ACTUALLY THERE, WHAT HAD
BEEN LEAKED, WHAT HAD MOVED
OUTSIDE OF THE INTELLIGENCE
COMMUNITY INTO AN UNCLASSIFIED
SPACE WAS VERY HARD FOR US TO
GET OUR HANDS AROUND.
NEIL: STILL WHAT I WAS SHOCKED
TO LEARN IS THAT, YOU KNOW,
POTENTIALLY HUNDREDS OF
THOUSANDS, MORE THAN 200,000
WOULD BE ABLE TO GET ACCESS TO
DATA LIKE THIS, NOT EXCLUSIVELY
THIS.
I’M SURE THE AUDIENCE IS
POTENTIALLY MUCH SMALLER BUT I
AM WORRIED, I COULD SEE SOMEONE
LIKE YOU HAVING THAT IN YOUR
POSITION IN THE TRUMP
ADMINISTRATIONS AND PRIOR BUT IT
SOUND THE LIKE A LOT OF PEOPLE,
BOTH HERE AND IN SOME FOREIGN
OPERATIONS DO GET ACCESS TO THIS
SORT OF THING AND OF COURSE IN
THIS CASE IT WAS A BUNCH OF
GAMERS WHO WERE GIVEN ACCESS TO
THIS.
THEY WERE NOT PART OF THAT CROWD
BUT THEY GREW TO BE.
THAT SEEMS IN NEED OF TIGHTENING
UP.
>> NEIL, I COULD NOT AGREE WITH
YOU MORE.
PUT ASIDE THE FACT THAT IT GOT
OUTSIDE THE CLASSIFIED SPACE.
THOSE FOLKS OBVIOUSLY SHOULDN’T
HAVE IT BUT I WAS ALWAYS AMAZED
SOMETIMES INNOCENT THINGS THAT
WERE NOT EVEN CLASSIFIED, THINGS
LEAKED TO THE POST OR
"NEW YORK TIMES" ON MY WATCH.
OKAY WE HAVE TO FIND OUT WHO DID
THIS.
IMMEDIATELY, WITHIN AN HOUR,
SIR, WE HAD 11,000 PEOPLE WHO
SAW THIS, RIGHT?
IT COULD BE POTENTIALLY HUGE
NUMBERS OF PEOPLE.
SOMETIMES THESE WERE BROADLY
DISSEMINATED DOCUMENTS BUT OFTEN
TIMES I SAW LOTS OF INFORMATION
THAT YOU KNOW, SOMEBODY MIGHT
HAVE THE RIGHT CLEARANCE BUT HAD
ABSOLUTELY NO NEED TO KNOW.
THEY WERE SOMEONE THEY HAD TO
CHECK OFF THEY WEREN’T THE
LEAKER.
WE ABSOLUTELY TRIED TO TIGHTEN
THAT DOWN, THERE IS STILL
AMAZING AMOUNT OF WORK THAT
NEEDS TO BE DONE.
TOO MANY PEOPLE SEEING TOO MUCH
INFORMATION, ALWAYS INCREASES
THE RISK EXPONENTIALLY, NEIL.
NEIL: WE’RE SLOPPY WITH THIS
STUFF.
TALK ABOUT THE DOCUMENTS THAT
HAVE BEEN FOUND AND JOE BIDEN’S
GARAGE AND ALL THOSE FOUND IN
MAR-A-LAGO WITH PRESIDENT TRUMP
AND OF COURSE EXTENDING TO
VICE PRESIDENT PENCE.
>> YEP.
NEIL: WE CAN’T SEEM TO KEEP
SECRETS.
>> YOU KNOW, NEIL, WE DO HAVE A
POM WITH THIS BUT I WILL SAY
MOST OF THE MOST IMPORTANT
SECRETS I SAW IN MY TIME AS CIA
DIRECTOR WE WERE ABLE TO KEEP
INSIDE.
SO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE SHOULD
KNOW, WE ACTUALLY DO A
REASONABLE JOB OF THIS BUT WHAT
HAS HAPPENED RIGHT, WHETHER IT
WAS THE VAULT SEVEN LEAKS FROM
THE CENTRAL INTELLIGENCE AGENCY,
THE WORK THAT SNOWDEN WAS ABLE
TO DO, WE CAN GO THROUGH
HANDFULS OF CASES OVER THE PAST
DECADES WHERE CASES GOT WHERE IT
SHOULDN’T BE.
EVERYBODY INVOLVED, EVERY HUMAN
BEING NEEDS TO MAKE SURE THEY
ARE DOING THIS RIGHT.
MAKE SURE WE HAVE SYSTEMS,
PROCESSES PROTECT THIS.
HOW THIS STUFF GOT TO
MAR-A-LAGO, THE GARAGE NEXT TO
JOBE’S CORVETTE, ENDED UP IN THE
STREETS IN IRELAND YESTERDAY.
NEIL: YEAH.
>> THIS IS THIS IS DANGEROUS
STUFF AND THE RESPONSIBILITY OF
EVERY INDIVIDUAL TO GET THIS
RIGHT IS REAL AND THE DUTY OF
GOVERNMENT TO HOLD THOSE
ACCOUNTABLE WHO FAILED TO
DELIVER ON THAT LEVEL OF
SECURITY NEEDS TO MATCH THAT
THREAT.
NEIL: YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY WE
DON’T, AND CAN’T ASCERTAIN THE
TRUTH OF ALL OF THIS MATERIAL
THAT HAS COME OUT, BUT THERE ARE
ENOUGH CONSISTENCIES CERTAINLY
EVEN IN THE GENERAL PRESS
CONCERN OVER THE LONGEVITY OF
UKRAINE’S FIGHT AND
COUNTEROFFENSIVE PLANSES FOR
LATER IN THE SPRING, WHETHER IT
IS UP TO THAT, RUNNING OUT OF
KEY SUPPLIES.
DOES THAT WORRY OUT, THAT COMES
TO LIGHT RIGHT NOW?
IT IS SORT OF PLANTED NEW DOUBTS
THAT UKRAINE CAN’T MAKE IT FOR
THE LONG FIGHT?
>> NEAL, I WAS IN UKRAINE, SPENT
ABOUT 10 DAYS AGO NOW, THE THING
THEY SAID THEY NEEDED MOST WAS
155 ROUNDS, AMMUNITION, SIMPLE
ARTILLERY.
NOT HIGH-TECH STUFF.
THE CAPABILITY TO CONTINUE TO
PERFORM.
THE AIR DEFENSE FUNCTION AND TO
FIRE ARTILLERY AS RUSSIANS WERE
TRYING TO ADVANCE IN BAKHMUT IN
THE REGION.
RUSSIANS ARE HAVING SIMILAR
PROBLEMS.
MASSIVE SUPPLY CHAIN PROBLEMS,
LOSING PEOPLE AT A RATE
ABSOLUTELY STAGGERING.
BOTH SIDES ARE EXPENDING HUGE
HUMAN RESOURCES AND PHYSICAL
RESOURCES IN THIS CONFLICT.
MY JUDGMENT, THE WAY THIS ENDS
QUICKLY, RESTORE THE DETERRENTS
BIDEN ADMINISTRATION LOST.
AMERICANS SAY WE CAN’T SPEND
THIS MONEY F VLADMIR PUTIN
CONTROLS KYIV, THIS WILL COST
THE UNITED STATES FAR MORE THAN
PROVIDING UKRAINIAN PEOPLE TO
CONVINCE PUTIN THIS WAR IS NOT
CONTINUING.
BIDEN IS DONE THIS FAR TOO
SLOWLY F WE PERHAPS GOT ON THIS
IN A SERIOUS WAY WE WOULDN’T BE
WHERE WE ARE, NEIL.
NEIL: I WANT TO SWITCH GEARS,
SECRETARY, TALK ABOUT EMANNUEL
MACRON, APPARENTLY OUR FIXATION,
I DON’T WANT TO MISCHARACTERIZE
WHAT HE SAID WITH CHINA, TAIWAN,
ALL OF THAT, THAT IS A U.S.
ISSUE.
I CAUGHT UP WITH LIZ TRUSS,
FORMER PRIME MINISTER OF GREAT
BRITAIN TOOK ISSUE WITH THAT.
EMANNUEL MACRON ESSENTIALLY
THROWING WESTERN POWERS UNDER
THE BUS.
WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF WHAT HE
SAID?
>> OH, GOODNESS.
I HAVE SPENT A LOT OF TIME WITH
PRESIDENT MACRON.
HE ALWAYS HAD A LITTLE BIT OF
RESENTMENT TOWARDS THE UNITED
STATES.
I WOULD REMIND HIM THE BEST WAY
THAT THE U.S. DOESN’T HAVE TO DO
WORK IN EUROPE, DO IT YOURSELF.
WE WOULD ENCOURAGE HIM.
ENCOURAGE THE GERMANS TO DO THE
SAME.
IT WAS GALLING TO SEE THE
REMARKS HE HAD TO SAY.
THIS WAS IGNORANT.
MAKE NO MISTAKE THIS PROBLEM
WITH THE CHINESE COMMUNIST PARTY
IS NOT A CONFLICT BETWEEN THE
UNITED STATES AND CHINA.
IT IS AN EFFORT BY XI XINPING TO
DOMINATE THE ENTIRE WORLD THAT
CERTAINLY INCLUDES EUROPE.
LIZ TRUSS, SOME OF THE OTHERS IN
EUROPE, THE EU PRESIDENT MADE
REMARKS EXACTLY OPPOSITE OF
THOSE MACRON MADE.
MOST OF EUROPE UNDERSTANDS THIS
RISK IN A WAY THAT IS SERIOUS.
I HOPE THEY BEGIN TO EXPEND
THEIR RESOURCES IN A WAY TO
MATCH WHAT THEY KNOW THE THREAT
IS FROM THE CHINESE COMMUNIST
PARTY.
NEIL: THEY SEEM TO BE FOCUSED,
NOT UNVERT SALLY, SOME ARE
COMPLAINING ABOUT THE ON GOING
WAR IN UKRAINE TO CONTINUE
FUNDING IT NOTHING TO THE DEGREE
WE ARE, NATIONS LIKE POLAND ARE,
BUT THE FACT OF THE MATTER THEY
DON’T SEEM AS CONCERNED WITH
TAIWAN.
MAYBE EMANNUEL MACRON SAID WHAT
THEY’RE THINKING, TAIWAN ISN’T
OUR ISSUE, WHAT DO YOU THINK OF
THAT?
>> YEAH.
IT IS POSSIBLE.
IT IS POSSIBLE THAT HE IS MAYING
TO SOME POLITICAL BASE INSIDE OF
HIS OWN PARTY OR INSIDE OF
FRANCE BUT HE KNOWS BETTER.
HE KNOWS THAT THE CHINESE
COMMUNIST PARTY IS INFILTRATING
IN HIS COUNTRY AND THE SAME WAY
THEY INFILTRATING AMERICAN
UNIVERSITIES.
THAT THEY HAVE STOLEN
INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY, SAME WAY
THEY STOLEN 10 OF BILLIONS OF
DOLLARS OF AMERICAN INTELLECTUAL
PROPERTY.
PRESIDENT MACRON SAYS THE COMING
CONFRONTATION NOT BROUGHT ON BY
THE UNITED STATES, BROUGHT ON BY
XI XINPING PROCHINA, THIS CON
FELONTATION IS SERIOUS.
NEITHER FRANCE OR BRITAIN WILL
ESCAPE THE THREAT.
I’M CONFIDENT THE EUROPEANS WILL
WORK ALONGSIDE WITH US,
JAPANESE, SOUTH KOREANS, EVERY
NATION THAT UNDERSTANDS THE
THREAT FROM CHINA THE WAY WE DO,
THEY WILL BE WITH US.
NEIL: SECRETARY WHILE I HAVE YOU
WE ALWAYS VEER INTO POLITICS.
I KNOW YOU ESCHEW DISCUSSING
WHETHER YOU MAKE A PRESIDENTIAL
RUN A LOT OF YOUR BIG FANS AND
SUPPORTERS HOPE YOU DO.
I ONLY SAY IT IN THE CONTEXT OF
FAST MOVING POLL DEVELOPMENTS
WE’VE SEEN INCLUDING FOR
DONALD TRUMP EVEN IN THE FACE OF
THESE INDICTMENTS, THE FIRST FOR
A FORMER PRESIDENT EVER.
HIS POPULARITY HAS GONE UP.
MISS MONEY RAISING SKILLS HAS
GONE UP AMAZING.
CLOSE TO $15 MILLION HIS
CAMPAIGN HAS GOTTEN SINCE THE
FIRST INDICTMENT WENT DOWN.
ASA HUTCHINSON JUST JOINED THE
RACE, SIR, HE UNDERSTANDS
OVERZEALOUS PROSECUTE CRITICISMS
THAT REPUBLICANS HAVE THROWN AT
ALVIN BRAGG.
HE THINK IT IS BAD ENOUGH, MORE
CONTROVERSIES AND POSSIBLE
INDICTMENTS TO COME IN OTHER
INVESTIGATIONS.
INCLUDING FORMER PRESIDENT’S
ROLE IN THE GEORGIA RECOUNT,
WHATEVER ACTIVITY MY HAVE HAD TO
SPUR THE ATTACKS ON THE CAPITOL
AND JANUARY 6th, CLASSIFIED
DOCUMENTS YOU NAME IT, THAT HE
SHOULD STEP DOWN, THAT HE SHOULD
QUIT RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT.
WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THAT?
>> I THINK EVERYONE WHO IS
THINKING ABOUT THIS THEMSELVES
HAS TO SORT THAT OUT FOR
THEMSELVES.
AND THEN THE AMERICAN PEOPLE AND
FIRST INSTANCE, REPUBLICAN
CAUCUS-GOERS AND PRIMARY VOTERS
GET TO SORT IT OUT.
WOULD THINK IT IS FOR ANY OF US
TO SAY, SALLY, PETE, JOHN,
PRESIDENT TRUMP SHOULD OR
SHOULDN’T RUN FOR PRESIDENT.
EVERYONE HAS TO MAKE THAT
DECISION.
I’M CONFIDENT PRESIDENT TRUMP IS
PRETTY CLEAR WHAT HE INTENDS TO
DO.
I HAVE EQUAL CONFIDENCE THAT THE
AMERICAN PEOPLE WILL BE SERIOUS
THINKING ABOUT WHAT KIND OF
LEADER, WHO DO THEY WANT TO LEAD
THE COUNTRY THROUGH AN
INCREDIBLY TUMULTUOUS TIME, NOT
ONLY ABROAD BUT PROBLEMS HERE AT
NEIL: THERE WILL BE A CANDIDATE
FORUM IN AUGUST.
YOU MIGHT BE PART OF THAT IF YOU
CHOOSE TO RUN.
DO YOU THINK THAT IS A FAIR
ISSUE TO RAISE WHEN YOU’RE ON
THE STAGE WITH DONALD TRUMP?
>> I LIKE WINNING.
I LIKE AMERICA TO WIN.
I LIKE OUR PARTY TO WIN.
I BELIEVE CONSERVATIVE IDEAS
MATTER.
I THINK IN THAT SENSE NOTHING IS
OFF THE TABLE BRINGING UP ISSUES
RELEVANT DRIVING AMERICA
FORWARD.
EVERYTHING IS ON THE TABLE IN
THAT DEBATE.
I’M CONFIDENT, NEIL, YOU’VE SEEN
THE DEBATES, I’M PRETTY
CONFIDENT EVERYTHING WILL BE ON
THE TABLE.
NEIL: BECAUSE CHRIS CHRISTIE
SAID WHO ALSO MIGHT JOIN THAT
RACE A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO MIGHT.
I’M POSSIBLY TAKING WAY TOO MANY
LEAPS, DONALD TRUMP IS THE ONLY
CANDIDATE WHO CANNOT BEAT
JOE BIDEN.
WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THAT?
>> UNKNOWABLE.
WE’RE STILL A YEAR-AND-A-HALF
OFF FROM THAT ELECTION IN THE
FALL OF 2024.
UNKNOWABLE WHO CAN WIN, WHO
CAN’T WIN.
UNKNOWABLE IF PRESIDENT BIDEN
WILL BE THE DEMOCRAT NOMINEE.
I THINK THERE IS STILL A LONG
WAY TO GO.
I DO.
I ALWAYS HAVE CONFIDENCE IN THE
AMERICAN PEOPLE.
THEY USUALLY GET IT RIGHT.
THEY DIDN’T SADLY IN 2020.
THEY LED US DOWN A PATH BUT I’M
CONFIDENT THE AMERICAN PEOPLE
GET IT RIGHT IN 2024.
NEIL: AS YOU KNOW THE REPUBLICAN
PARTY HOPING ANYONE WHO
PARTICIPANTS IN THAT DEBATE WILL
AGREE WHOEVER IS NOMINATED BY
THE REPUBLICAN VOTING BASE WOULD
BE SUPPORTED BY ALL CANDIDATES.
IT IS NOT A LITMUS TEST.
SHE HAD HAD HER DRUTHERS SHE
WOULD PREFER THAT.
DO YOU THINK THAT SHOULD BE THE
CASE?
IF YOU RAN WOULD YOU SUPPORT THE
REPUBLICAN NOMINEE, EVEN IF YOU
DON’T RUN?
>> I CANNOT IMAGINE SUPPORTING
PRESIDENT BIDEN OR A DEMOCRAT TO
LEAD THIS COUNTRY FORWARD.
IT SEEMS INCOMPREHENSIBLE TO ME,
NEIL.
I’VE BEEN IN THE CONSERVATIVE
MOVEMENT FOR MY ENTIRE ADULT
LIFE.
TO THINK I WILL DIVERT FROM THAT
IN 2024 SEEMS LUDICROUS.
NEIL: PRESIDENT TRUMP HAS NOT
SAID THE SAME HIMSELF.
DOES THAT WORRY YOU?
>> EVERYBODY GETS TO MAKE THEIR
OWN CHOICES.
I THINK THE AMERICAN PEOPLE GET
TO EVALUATE THAT.
DO YOU BELIEVE, DO YOU BELIEVE
THAT A CONSERVATIVE IS BETTER
THAN A PROGRESSIVE LIBERAL NO
MATTER WHO EMBODIES THOSE
POSITIONS?
I THINK THAT OUGHT TO BE A
PRETTY SIMPLE QUESTION FOR
EVERYONE TO ANSWER.
I HOPE EVERY REPUBLICAN,
INCLUDING PRESIDENT TRUMP WILL
DO THAT.
NEIL: GOT IT.
WE’LL WATCH.
FOLLOW IT CLOSELY.