A STAGED REFERENDUM IS UNDERWAY IN FOUR AREAS OF
UKRAINE OCCUPIED BY INVADING RUSSIAN FORCES.
PEOPLE THERE BEING FORCED TO VOTE ON WHETHER THE REGIONS
SHOULD BECOME PART OF RUSSIA. THE ENTIRE PROCESS UNDER THE
CONTROL OF THE RUSSIAN GOVERNMENT AND OCCUPYING FORCES.
THE U.S., EUROPE, NATO, THE WORLD, MANY COUNTRIES, SLAM THE
MOVE AS SHAM ELECTIONS. THIS COMES AS VLADIMIR PUTIN
FACES AN UPRISING FROM HIS OWN PEOPLE OVER HIS PLANNED
MOBILIZATION. AND THE UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT,
VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, IS SAYING THAT HE WANTS RUSSIANS TO REVOLT
AGAINST THEIR GOVERNMENT. >> THAT'S RIGHT.
PUTIN'S DRAFT ORDER SPARKING HUGE ANGRY PROTESTS ACROSS THE
COUNTRY, LEADING TO MORE THAN 1,300 ARRESTS.
AND NOW SOME RUSSIANS ARE LEAVING THE COUNTRY ENTIRELY,
ONE WAY OR ANOTHER. AS MEN TRY TO ESCAPE THIS WAR.
WE ARE SEEING LONG LINES OF TRAFFIC BUILDUP AT BORDER
CROSSINGS AND SEVERAL NEIGHBORING COUNTRIES.
AS FOR THOSE WHO ARE DECIDING TO TRY TO FIGHT, THEY ARE SAYING
GOOD-BYE TO LOVED ONES, AS THEY LEAVE BEHIND THEIR FAMILIES TO
BOARD BUSES FOR MILITARY SERVICE.
SO LET'S BEGIN IN UKRAINE. OUR INTERNATIONAL SECURITY
EDITOR, NICK PATON WALSH JOINS US FROM KRAMATORSK.
NICK, WHAT CAN YOU TELL US FROM THE GROUND?
>> Reporter: YEAH, CERTAINLY, THESE -- I CAN'T EVEN CALL THEM
"VOTES," TO BE HONEST, HANDING OUT OF BALLOTS APPEARS TO BE
UNDERWAY. IMAGES SHOWING THAT IN MULTIPLE
AREAS. IT'S IMPORTANT TO POINT OUT THAT
THIS IS HAPPENING UNDER WARTIME CONDITIONS, UNDER THE GUN,
CERTAINLY, AND THAT THESE BALLOT BOXES ARE BEING TAKEN TO
PEOPLE'S HOMES, ESSENTIALLY, AN OCCUPYING FORCE GOING TO YOUR
FRONT DOOR AND SAYING, DO YOU WANT TO VOTE "YES" TO JOIN PART
OF RUSSIA OR NOT? PRETTY CLEAR WHAT THE OUTCOME
WOULD BE. AS THEY USED TO SAY IN THE
SOVIET TIME, IT DOESN'T MATTER WHO VOTES, IT'S WHO COUNTS THE
VOTES. WE DON'T EVEN SEE THAT MANY
PEOPLE EVEN VOTING HERE. THERE'S ONLY ONE DAY OVER THE
NEXT FOUR DAYS WHERE IN-PERSON VOTING AT BALLOT STATIONS SEEM
TO BE EVEN HAPPENING. BUT THIS FOLLOWS A LONG PATTERN,
FRANKLY, OF HOW RUSSIA FUNCTIONS IN WHAT IT USED TO CALL MANAGED
DEMOCRACY, MUCH LESS OF A PRETENSE, FRANKLY HERE.
THE CONCERN IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THE RESULTS HAVE BEEN ANNOUNCED.
WESTERN OFFICIALS SAYING THAT THE TOLL HAS ALREADY BEEN
DECIDED. DOES RUSSIA USE THIS MOVE, AND
THE KREMLIN HAS INDICATED THAT THEY WILL QUITE LIKELY FAST
RECOGNIZE THESE AREAS AS PART OF RUSSIA.
DO THEY ALLOW THAT EXTRA STATUS AS SOME EXTRA PART OF THEIR
ARSENAL TO BE BROUGHT INTO PLAY? DOES IT ENABLE THEM TO DO OTHER
THINGS? CAN THEY USE RUSSIAN CONSCRIPTS
ON TERRITORY ON WHICH THEY NOW CONSIDER TO BE PART OF RUSSIA OR
REACH FURTHER INTO PARTS OF THEIR ARSENAL.
WE ARE HEARING UKRAINIAN OFFICIALS SAYING, DON'T VOTE,
REPORT BIDS TO TRY TO MAKE YOU VOTE, AND IN ONE RARE TOWN IN
KHERSON, A PROTEST AGAINST THAT REFERENDUM, STARTLING BRAVERY.
>> NICK, YOU DESCRIBED THE CALCULUS HERE AND THE CONCERN,
AS U.S. OFFICIALS EXPRESSED THAT RUSSIA WILL NOW TREAT THESE
AREAS AS RUSSIAN TERRITORY, AND THEREFORE MIGHT ESCALATE IN SOME
WAY. I'M CURIOUS, DOES THIS AFFECT
UKRAINIAN WAR PLANS? THE UKRAINIAN MILITARY AGENDA
FROM THE COMMANDERS, THE OFFICIALS YOU SPEAK TO?
>> Reporter: AS FAR AS WE CAN SEE ON THE GROUND, ABSOLUTELY
NOT. NOT AT ALL.
IN FACT, AROUND HERE, THEY ARE MOVING FORWARD IN CERTAIN AREAS.
YOU SAW VERY HIGHLY MORALE YESTERDAY.
THERE'S ONE EXCEPTION, WHICH WE ARE SEEING RUSSIA GETTING SOME
TRACTION MOVING INTO THAT KEY CITY.
WITH POTENTIALLY TENS OF THOUSANDS OF CIVILIANS STILL
INSIDE THERE. BUT ON THE WHOLE, RUSSIA'S
LOSING ON THE FRONT LINE. THAT BRINGS INTO QUESTION, JIM,
EXACTLY THE IMPACT OF THIS, QUOTE, PARTIAL MOBILIZATION THAT
PUTIN HAS ORDERED. PROBABLY THE MOST RISKY AND
STRIDENT MOVE OF HIS 22 YEARS, EFFECTIVELY RUNNING THE RUSSIAN
GOVERNMENT. AND, YOU KNOW, THERE ARE MANY
SIGNS OF PROTEST ACROSS THE COUNTRY, IT'S SO HARD TO TRY AND
DEFINE HOW CONSISTENT DISSENT IS, HOW WIDESPREAD IT IS,
BECAUSE OF THE ROLE OF STATE PROPAGANDA, BLASTING INTO HOMES
THROUGH TV SCREENS, BECAUSE OF HOW PERVASIVE THE SECURITY
SERVICES ARE IN CRUSHING DISSENT.
BUT UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY SEIZING UPON
THIS DISSENT TO BASICALLY SAY TO RUSSIANS, RUN, DESERT, OR LET
YOURSELVES BE TAKEN PRISONER. HERE'S WHAT HE HAD TO SAY.
ZPLT RUSSIA'S DECISION ON MOBILIZATION IS A FRANK
ADMISSION THAT THE REGULAR ARMY, WHICH HAS BEEN PREPARED FOR
DECADES TO TAKE OVER A FOREIGN COUNTRY, DID NOT WITHSTAND AND
CRUMBLED. >> Reporter: SO ESSENTIALLY, WE
ARE A FEW WEEKS AHEAD HERE, WHERE RUSSIA HAS TO PUT THESE
TENS OF THOUSANDS OR HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS, THEY CLAIM, OF FORCED
CONSCRIPTS, SOME NOT HAVING THAT MUCH MILITARY EXPERIENCE, ON TO
A FRONT LINE AND SUPPLY, TRAIN, AND EQUIP THEM IN A WAY IT
HASN'T REALLY EFFECTIVELY DONE THROUGH ITS REGULAR ARMY OVER
THE PAST SIX MONTHS. THAT'S A STARTLING CHALLENGE
AHEAD OF THEM, ONE WHICH THEY PROBABLY WILL NOT SUCCEED.
LEADING TO THIS NEXT QUESTION, DOES PUTIN SUDDENLY FEEL NOW
THAT THE NUCLEAR WEAPONS OR OTHER PARTS OF HIS ARSENAL THAT
HE STAYED WELL AWAY FROM OVER THE NEXT SIX MONTHS MIGHT COME
INTO PLAY. WE'LL HAVE GET THAT ANSWER
SCARILY SOON. >> NICK PATON WALSH, THANK YOU.
SO IMPORTANT TO HAVE YOU ON THE GROUND THERE EXACTLY WHERE THIS
IS HAPPENING. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THAT
REPORTING. LET'S BRING IN MARY LUSHANA.
NICE TO SEE YOU, MARY. THANKS FOR GETTING UP EARLY THIS
MORNING. TALK TO ME ABOUT THIS
MOBILIZATION ON RUSSIA. WHAT ARE YOU HEARING INSIDE THE
COUNTRY FROM PEOPLE WHO ARE WORRIED ABOUT THIS?
AND IS IT, I WONDER, AN ADMISSION FROM VLADIMIR PUTIN
THAT THIS IS NOT A LIMITED MILITARY OPERATION, THIS IS A
FULL BLOWN WAR? >> GOOD MORNING, CHRISTINE.
IT HAS BEEN SAID IT HAS NOT GONE AS SMOOTHLY AS HOPED AND ALSO
HOW THEY PORTRAYED THIS SPECIAL MILITARY OPERA IGS TO PEOPLE
FROM RUSSIA IN THE PAST SEVEN MONTHS.
NOW WE ARE FEELING VERY DIRECT IMPACT OF THAT.
THEIR LIVES HAVE BEEN UPROOTED ON THE DAY OF MOBILIZATION, THEY
ALREADY LEFT FOR TRAINING ON THURSDAY NIGHT.
YOU KNOW HOW QUICKLY THAT ALL UNFOLDED FOR THEM.
THEY HAVE TO LEAVE THEIR HOMES AND GO TO TRAINING AND THEN TO
WAR. PEOPLE ARE TRYING TO DO WHATEVER
THEY CAN TO AVOID IT. SOME PEOPLE ARE FREEING THE
COUNTRY. IF YOU HAVE A PASSPORT OR VISA,
YOU'RE LEAVING. LIKELY TO SEE MORE PROTESTS
TOMORROW. GENERALLY THERE'S A LOT OF
PANIC, FEAR AND RESISTANCE. >> I KNOW SOME OF THE REPORTING
WAS THAT THOSE EARLIER PROTESTS THIS WEEK, PROTESTERS WERE
BEING, YOU KNOW, DETAINED AND THEN CONSCRIPTED, PUT INTO THE
WAR EFFORT. THE NUMBER WE KNOW IS 300,000
RESERVISTS PUT INTO THE BATTLEFIELD.
YOU THINK THERE'S A BIGGER POSSIBILITY THAN THAT.
WHY? >> THERE IS A LOT OF CONCERN
THAT IS BIGGER THAN THAT BECAUSE OF HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE BEING
ROUNDED UP, NOT NERVOUS NEW HAMPSHIRE.
. THEY'RE MORE PRONE TO PROTESTS.
THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE IN SMALLER REGIONS THAT DON'T GET
MUCH MEDIA COVERAGE. SO MANY REPORTS OF PEOPLE
ROUNDED UP 30, 40 FREEM ONE SMALL SETTLEMENT.
THERE'S CONCERN. RUSSIAN OUTLET?
>> THERE IS A PRESIDENTIAL DEGREE.
IT COULD BE UP TO 1 MILLION PEOPLE.
THERE IS NO CONFIRMATION ABOUT THAT.
THEY HAVE CITED A SOURCE IN THE KREMLIN.
IT'S DEFINITELY BREWING AS VERY MUCH FULL MOBILIZATION.
WE KNOW FROM PREVIOUS EXPERIENCE IN THIS WAR THAT RUSSIAN
AUTHORITIES WHEN THEY GIVE A NUMBER, IT QUITE OFTEN IS NOT
TRUE ESPECIALLY WHEN IT COMES TO THE CASUALTIES THAT RUSSIA
SUSTAINS THROUGHOUT THE CAMPAIGN.
THEY SAY LESS THAN 6,000 PEOPLE DIED, 6,000 SOLDIERS, BUT THAT
NUMBER IS LIKELY MUCH, MUCH HIGHER.
>> SOURCES TELLING CNN SORT OF THIS IS CNN'S REPORTING, MARY,
THAT RUSSIAN OFFICERS ARE COMPLAINING ABOUT MOSCOW'S
DECISION MAKING, INTERVENTION AND THEY'RE ARGUING AMONG
THEMSELVES COMPLAINING ABOUT MOSCOW'S INTERVENTION BUT
ARGUING ON THE BATTLEFIELD ITSELF WHAMPT DO YOU MAKE OF
THAT AND WHAT IT SAYS ABOUT WHO'S A MONTH, RUSSIA NEVER
PUBLICLY SAID WHO IS ACTUALLY THE OPERATIONAL COMMANDER OF
THIS WHOLE MASSIVE OPERATION. IT WAS NEVER CLEAR.
FROM THE SOLDIERS I SPOKE TO, IT WAS CLEAR WHEN THEY WENT INTO
THIS ATTACK, THEY DIDN'T REALLY UNDERSTAND WHAT WAS GOING ON AND
THAT PERSISTED THROUGHOUT EVERYTHING THEY DID BECAUSE IT
WAS LAST-MINUTE DUELS DO SOMETHING.
THERE WAS COMPLETE CHAOS AND THAT SEEMS TO HAVE CULMINATED IN
THE MASSIVE SETBACK THE ARMY HAS SUFFERED IN PREVIOUS WEEKS IN
NORTHEASTERN UKRAINE WHERE THEY WERE ANNIHILATE THERE BY THE
COUNTER OFFENSIVE AND HAD TO LEAVE A LOT OF THE PLACES.
THIS IS WHY THEY'RE MOVING SO QUICKLY.
>> LET'S TALK ABOUT THAT QUICKLY?
WHAT IS HE TRYING TO ACHIEVE SORT OF HIS STAKE IN THOSE
AREAS. YES.
YOU KNOW, IT'S A WHOPPING -- ONE SIDE HE HAS TO TELL THE RUSSIAN
PUBLIC HE'S SUNG SEEDING AT SOMETHING.
HE LIBERATED THOSE AREAS AND HE'S BRINGING THE
RUSSIAN-SPEAKING PEOPLE HOME. THAT'S WHAT HE LIKES TO SAY.
ONCE THESE REGIONS ARE FINE. ANY ATTACK ON THE TERRITORIES
WILL BE CONSIDERED NOT JUST AREAS IN A DIFFERENT COUNTRY BUT
ATTACK ON RUSSIA AND THAT COULD PUT US INTO ROUND OF ESCALATION.
IN IS A STARK AND CONCERNING ZBLEMT WASHINGTON POST, THANK
YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR EXPERTISE AND YOUR TIME THIS MORNING.
THANK YOU.