So you may have noticed over the last couple months
or so we have slowly been unveiling the new Idea Channel
set, which has been a long time in the works.
And we kind of wanted to make a short video with my friend
James, who designed and made it to sort of just talk through
how we did it, and what we were thinking about when we were
doing it, and sort of where the inspiration came from,
and to just kind of like, unveil and explain--
sort of like a coming out party, but for a piece of--
A quinceanera, if you will.
Yeah.
So first things first, let's talk a little bit
about how we know each other.
You were, I think, the second-- first or second person
I met at college.
It was either me or Guy.
And I was like, hey, nice Moog shirt.
Yeah, I was wearing a shirt that had a Moog keyboard on it.
And we've worked together on like, a million things.
We shared studio space together, the best studio space
on campus.
Now I art direct a lot for television.
I work on "Orange is the New Black" as the art director.
So a lot of TV work as an art director.
And then I do production design for a lot
of like, indie films and smaller budget things
as I sort of work on merging those two things together.
Sure, sure.
Can you talk a little bit about the difference between those?
I know that you get asked this question like, 1,000 times.
Well, it's confusing, because originally art directors--
that's all there was.
There was no such job as production designer in film.
On a fundamental level, production designer
is in charge of the whole visual look of the film.
They're the designer of, you know, the walls, scenery, set
dressing, everything.
And the art director works under them
as sort of the business end of that.
Makes the dream happen.
Budgets, things, hires people.
MIKE: Moves all the parts around to make sure--
Yeah, schedule it.
So, I mean, knowing that you do this kind of work, when
we had talked about like, oh, the Idea Channel set
needs a new refresh we have to think about.
We're kind of starting to try to think
about the show in a new way, we're
trying to do different things on camera, like, we
need a new space to do it in.
Like, we were super, super lucky that we got you at a time
when you were like, between two shows.
You were like, yeah, I could do it.
It has to be like, literally this set of weeks.
It was a very small window.
Yeah, and we like-- and we totally nailed it.
So the first thing I want to do is
thank you immensely for just, like, all of the awesome work
that you put into this to make it happen,
and come in here like, on nights and weekends
to come and make it--
Yeah, it was at Christmas.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, that's right!
JAMES: I think I was here Christmas Eve, actually,
for a little bit.
Over Christmas break!
Oh, god.
When when nobody else was here, it was great.
Yeah.
I made so much dust.
It was me and my good friend Carolyn Mraz.
Giving her shout out.
I thought this was going to take one day to do,
and it ended up being like, three or four days.
And she really pulled through and helped out
with me building it all.
Well, thank you also to Carolyn.
Yes.
So we're going to pause here for a brief second
to point out that James is a very tall man,
and that I am on a box, which is why our chairs don't line up.
And I just want to point this out so that the production
designer is not implicated in this weird detail that
exists in this short video that we're making.
And my posture is normally much better.
Thank you for slouching.
When you're sort of determining the look of a production
or a show or whatever, like, is there
a method that you use, or is it kind of everything
is different?
It really depends on the project.
So for something like this, it's essentially like a two-wall set
and it's very constrained.
So like, those are immediately the things
I'm thinking about, how to get the most out
of a small amount of space.
I prefer doing scripted or shows like this.
These are interesting design problem,
and scripted stuff you have character things
that you're responding to.
Storytelling is interesting to me.
So then what were the big challenges
that you-- the design challenges that you just mentioned when
you were putting this together?
Is it mostly the fact that we're crammed
into the corner of an office?
Yeah, I mean, it was like we started
with the previous set, which was two 8-foot by 8-foot flats.
Right?
Give or take.
I mean, yeah, we have shorter ceilings in this studio
than the last one.
And knowing that we wanted to get as many sort of filming
setups in here as possible.
So one of the first things I thought of
was if you're doing like, a two-wall set in a TV
show that's like, somebody sitting in a window,
talking on the phone, and all you
have is the one corner-- you don't
see the rest of the office-- sometimes
you'll build these little things called shoot-off walls.
And it's just a little bit more of whatever the wall treatment
is so that you can pop the camera over into the corner
and you're not seeing the office space or whatever,
all this stuff around us.
A big part for me was keeping your personality in it
and the show's personality in it.
You know, I think you even said at one point
that we could get rid of the records on the wall,
and I was like no, that's very much-- I
think that's important to keep.
You are afraid of people's reaction to change.
Partly, but also it's just like,
I think your show has a strong following for a reason.
Having all of the different setups using the shoot-off off
walls, but then also the way that the shelves and all
of the other elements are arranged does allow us
to-- like, pulling things off of the shelf feels really cool
in a way that it's like--
JAMES: I liked it when I saw it in that one episode.
It was nice.
MIKE: Yeah, it feels really nice.
JAMES: Yeah, and it was important to me,
too, that like, when you first talked to me about this,
about redesigning it, my first reaction was like, oh,
but the record wall is so great!
Like, why do you need a new set?
But then there's actually-- it's not just
"let's spice it up visually."
There's actually reasons.
You're feeling limited by what you've had it before,
and now you have a lot more options of ways
to set things up.
Yeah, it's really amazing.
Even like, Morgan and I talking to one another about, oh,
how are we going to set this one up.
And now we're in this period that we're using the set,
and we're experimenting with it, and trying
to find all of these different ways
that we can set up different shots does,
then, I think, affect-- and Morgan, from behind the camera,
you can correct me if you think I'm wrong.
But I think it does affect the way that we
shoot the episodes, sure.
But then, also, a lot of times, the way that they get
cut together, and even the assets
that we use, because sometimes we
realize while shooting that we can
interact with the set in a different way.
And I think one of the big examples
of that was we did a-- I don't know if you saw the Fallout
video that we did where we just replaced
this whole back wall with a green screen
and then put a bunch of computers in the back.
And that kind of thing, we would have never-- it's
like when we're talking through like,
oh, the setup will be here, and then maybe the setup
will be here.
We then have this conversation of, oh, wait,
but what if this is a green screen
and we put other stuff, which we would-- if the answer is always
shoot into the corner, we don't have that kind of conversation.
JAMES: Definitely.
Could you sort of walk us through a little bit
the process of prototyping this?
Because you made a really incredible model
that ended up looking pretty much exactly like what's here.
JAMES: Ideally, yes.
MIKE: It's almost like you're a professional.
A big part for me was kind of trying
to design a shell that was-- that I wasn't picking out
what those things were, and keeping your personality in it
through that to just really create a structure for you
to then add to.
MIKE: Put a bunch of junk on the shelves.
JAMES: Yeah, a bunch of junk on the shelves
that means something to you and your audience.
MIKE: Funny story.
Most of the stuff on the shelves comes either
from my bookshelf at home or my parents' attic.
For real.
Like, a lot of these things come from-- I
mean, the Secret Aardvark is from my kitchen.
That's probably not a surprise.
JAMES: I'm creating a vessel to put that stuff in,
and it's important to me that that part of the design
was that you then take the ball and roll with it to put
your flavor in there.
So really, I designed that even though I
didn't pick that stuff out.
Before we wrap up, the last thing
I want to not maybe ask you about, but interrogate
you about, is the fact that you were recently convinced by me
and Lizzie to start an Instagram account.
The two most important people in my life.
What was the thing that did it?
Because you were not taking Instagram seriously at all.
I was not.
The reason I was reluctant to using it
was that for the most part, on the big sort
of like, TV shows I work on, those sorts of producers
and directors aren't using Instagram to find talent.
They have agents, headhunters and things,
so I was thinking it wouldn't be useful for that.
But what is useful for is things like this,
like doing your show, and doing smaller films
and getting more design work, less art direction work.
And this is really stupid.
Like, I never realized Instagram might
be a way to find other people's stuff that I like.
So I'm friends now with all sorts of-- not friends,
but followers of all sorts of other people's amazing design
sites and other directors.
And it's really like, there's a lot of inspirational content
on there.
I guess I always looked at like the photo feature of Facebook.
MIKE: You're like "eh."
But like, on a different platform.
I was like, why not just put photos on Facebook?
It really never made sense to me in that way.
The last couple weeks or so that you've
started to take photos of different things,
or find photos and then bring them to Instagram
is like, it's such a great way for me
to see how you see the world.
Because you're like-- you're posting stuff
where I'm like, oh yeah!
Like, I never would have like, taken that square of detail
and looked at it in this way.
Just like, your eye is so good, and like,
the composition is so-- it really is, it's really great!
I guess the question that I have is
whether or not directors and-- art directors and these people
are using something like Instagram
to try to find people to hire.
Like, is Instagram-- does it not have
that kind of cachet in the art department world, where it's
like you have people who work in the art department who
have great eyes and great perspective on the world,
and are generally probably in cool locations
looking at awesome things.
But like, are they just not capturing them this way?
I'm discovering now that I'm doing this.
There are also other people in art departments who do this.
But it tends to be-- like I said,
it tends to be more of the-- the people who are really
using it to show like, crazy locations that you go to a lot
tends to be the more like, independent filmmaker types.
It's not like, production designers
on like, major Hollywood films necessarily.
I'm sure there are some.
And a lot of that probably has to do with the fact
that so much of that production is very quiet and very
sort of private.
Yeah, that's a big one too.
It's like, what can you show behind the scenes
on a big show?
It's one of the things when I go back to "Orange"
I have to talk to them about.
Now that I'm using Instagram in this way,
what can I show, what can I not show.
Yeah, and then I'll have some hopefully like,
behind-the-scenes set stills of things that
aren't going to spoil any plot.
But we'll see.
Well, James, thank you for coming.
Thanks for having me.
It was good to see you.
Good to see you, too.
Not that I don't see you all the time.
It has been-- thank you again for all of this.
It's so great, and I can't thank you
enough for all of the time you've put into,
and all the hard work, and all of the thought.
It has been my pleasure.
We'll put links to all of James's stuff
in the description.
You should say hi to him on the internet.
Be nice.
Check out my Instagram.