President Biden
is running for reelection.
Everybody's talking about his age.
People are talking about his polls.
Even there's some challenges
within the Democrats.
Maybe somebody who might start to,
you know, to try to primary him, etc..
But what I would like to know is many say
that his policies
and his legislative and his wins,
frankly, should speak for themselves.
And yet,
according to the way to win, it's a it's
a Democrat leaning company.
Firm, only some 22% of Latino voters.
33% of black voters can actually identify
something that they say he's done
to specific make their lives better.
Right. What would you say to that?
And would you would
how would you advise him
to connect in a reelection?
I think
Joe Biden has done
an extraordinary job
leading the country
through some very difficult times.
I do not think that there's going
to be any kind of serious
primary challenge to Joe Biden.
I think the Democratic Party is unified.
You know, there was a lot of talk,
you'll remember when he was first elected
because Bernie
Sanders had run
that somehow
there was
this huge split
between progressive Democrats
and more centrist Democrats.
And the truth is, is that partly
because of how Joe has governed
those divisions have been bridged.
I think what's true in American politics
generally is
until you get to campaigns,
people aren't paying much attention.
People have gone through a difficult time
because of COVID
and the pandemic and lockdowns
because of inflation,
primarily the result of both
the war in Ukraine and
and rising energy prices,
as well as supply chain issues.
And so people have
memories about the eggs
got more
expensive and gas was more expensive.
And they haven't been paying
as much attention
to the fact that, for example,
the African-American unemployment rate
is lower than it's been in decades.
The campaign will allow
President Biden to make those arguments
and I think that, you know, in a
and in a media environment
that's so cluttered,
it's very hard to break through
until you get to election time.
You'll recall when I ran
for reelection in 2012,
my poll numbers weren't that great
and we ended up winning comfortably.
Part of that was just
we started campaigning
and we were able to get a message out.
People said, you know,
policy or this policy
or this thing left undone.
That irritated me a little bit.
But
overall, I think he's done a good job,
and I think that's
what they're going to conclude
about Joe Biden as well.
When Russia
started its illegal invasion,
the second invasion of Ukraine,
I believe you said that democracies,
it's a it's a clarion call.
It's a wake up call.
Democracies are getting flabby
and feckless.
Where does Ukraine, in your view,
stand in the fight to preserve democracy?
I think it's vital.
It's interesting.
Before I left office, I gave speeches
not just here in Athens,
but also in Hamburg and
London.
And and and one of the arguments
I've made is
do not take for granted
the extraordinary achievement
of the European Union
and the fact that a continent
that was racked by war
and bloodshed for centuries
was now as prosperous
and as peaceful as any in history.
And then now we've seen
the first war on European soil in
recent memory.
And I think it was a wake up
call to Europe.
And I think it was a wake up
call to the West
and to democracies around the world that
the old ways of thinking might makes.
Right.
Big countries can do
what they want to small countries that,
you know,
people cannot independently determine
their futures
that that those forces have to be
confronted
Watching
the Ukrainians themselves
with such courage and bravery fight back,
I think that reminded
Europe of who they were
and I've been impressed by the degree
to which
and not easy circumstances.
Europe has stood up.
It has provided the aid
that was necessary
I think
the Biden administration has
very deftly managed
maintaining that alliance
to support Ukraine.
And
and I believe the stakes are high
to send a message
to somebody like Putin that
they are not going to
just be able to willy nilly determine
the borders of other countries.
So, obviously,
hindsight is a great thing.
20, 20 vision is a great thing.
But you experienced
while you were in office
Putin's first invasion,
the annexation of Crimea.
And many people said
neither you nor the Western allies
stood up
and put enough red lines
around him around that.
So what's your reaction to that?
And I want to just add also, your friend,
your good friend and colleague,
Angela Merkel,
is under very serious criticism
right now.
I know you've just met with her recently.
Should she have leveraged,
you know, Germany's
economy, its energy on the addiction
to cheap energy in Russia?
Is that a mistake?
Well, you know,
I think
the Ukraine of that time
is not the Ukraine
that we're talking about today.
There's a reason
why there was not an armed invasion of
Crimea, because Crimea was
full of a lot of Russian speakers.
And there was some sympathy
to the view that Russia was representing
its interests.
The Rada at the time,
the Ukrainian parliament itself
still had
a number of Russian sympathizers.
And the politics inside
Ukraine were more complicated.
And part of what happened
was both myself, but also Merkel,
who I give
enormous credit for, had to pull in
a lot of other Europeans
kicking and screaming
to impose the sanctions that we did
and to prevent Putin from
continuing through the Donbas
into the rest of Ukraine.
So I actually think that given both
where Ukraine was at
at the time
and where
the European mindset was at the time,
we held the line.
And part of what happened was over time,
a sense of Ukrainian identity separate
from Russia and a determination
to push back against Russia
and an ability to prepare both militarily
and in civically to resist
Russian pressure
that they built up those muscles.
And that's part of the reason
why they were able
to respond the way they did.
When you actually saw
what was,
in my view, at least
incredibly misguided.
Not to mention illegal
and incredibly cruel incursion by air,
by Russian forces.
Do you think
Putin should have been challenged
more then?
I think that we challenged Putin
with the tools that we had at the time,
given where Ukraine was at the time.