EVENT FOR BIG TECH, AND IT IS
YEARS IN THE MAKING.
AMAZON’S JEFF BEZOS, APPLE’S TIM
COOK, SANDAR PICHAI OF ALPHABET
AND FACEBOOK’S MARK ZUCKERBERG
ALL SET TO APPEAR VIRTUALLY
BEFORE THE HOUSE JUDICIARY
ANTITRUST SUBCOMMITTEE ON
WEDNESDAY.
THE HEARING WILL MARK A RARE
PUBLIC INTERROGATION OF BIG
TECH’S MOST POWERFUL LEADERS.
THE TECH TITANS ARE EXPECTED TO
DEFEND THEIR COMPANY’S GROWING
POWER TO SKEPTICAL LAW MAKERS.
BUT SMALLER TECH COMPANIES HAVE
BEEN SOUNDING THE ALARM FOR
YEARS.
BASECAMP COFOUNDER AND CHIEF
TECH OFFICER IS THE ONLY ONE WHO
HAS TESTIFIED BEFORE THE SAME
ANTITRUST SUBCOMMITTEE TO WARN
THAT BIG TECH COMPANIES QUOTE,
BULLY, EXTORT OR SHOULD THEY
PLEASE, EVEN DESTROY OUR
BUSINESS UNLESS WE ACCEPT THEIR
OFTEN ONEROUS, EXPLOITIVE AND
EVER-CHANGING TERMS AND
CONDITIONS.
DAVE HANSON ENDING HIS JANUARY
TESTIMONY WITH A NOD TO "STAR
WARS" BY SAYING HELP US,
CONGRESS, YOU’RE OUR ONLY HOPE.
OKAY.
HERE IN A FOX BUSINESS EXCLUSIVE
IS BASECAMP’S DAVID HANSON AHEAD
OF WEDNESDAY’S BIG DAY.
WHAT ARE YOU EXPECTING TO SEE
AND WHAT DO YOU HOPE CONGRESS
WILL DO?
>> I EXPECT TO SEE THAT THERE’S
GOING TO BE FOUR INCREDIBLY
WELL-PREPARED EXECUTIVES WHO
WILL HAVE BEEN DRILLED BY THEIR
P.R. TEAMS TO KEEP THIS AS
BORING AND TECHNICAL AS
POSSIBLE.
IT IS REALLY UP TO CONGRESS TO
HIGHLIGHT HOW THESE ISSUES ARE
ANYTHING BUT BORING, THAT THESE
ARE SOME OF THE MOST IMPORTANT
ISSUES OF THE MODERN ECONOMY AND
THE CONTROL THESE COMPANIES HAVE
MUST BE CONSTRAINED BY LAW, THAT
WE CAN’T RELY ON MARKETS TO
CORRECT THIS NOW THAT THEY SEEM
TO HAVE COMPLETE CONTROL OVER
THESE MARKETS.
LIZ: WHEN YOU TESTIFIED BEFORE
CONGRESS IN JANUARY, YOU HIT
GOOGLE, YOU HIT APPLE AND YOU
HIT FACEBOOK, BUT APPLE IS YOUR
BIGGEST BEEF.
IN FACT, YOUR APP, AN E-MAIL
ORGANIZING APP, HEY, H-E-Y,
WHICH IS FANTASTIC, IT COSTS
MONEY, THEY GAVE YOU A VERY HARD
TIME AND THEY WANT YOU TO PAY
WHAT EVERYBODY HAS TO PAY, THE
30% COMMISSION FOR EVERY SINGLE
CUSTOMER YOU GET.
YOU CALLED THAT A GANGSTER MOVE.
YOU BASICALLY ACCUSED THEM OF
BEING THE MAFIA.
IF YOU WERE TO ADVISE CONGRESS
AND WHISPER IN THEIR EAR, WHAT
QUESTION WOULD YOU TELL THEM
THEY HAVE TO ASK TIM COOK TO
MAKE HIM SHAKY IF THAT’S EVEN AT
ALL POSSIBLE?
PRETTY TOUGH GUY.
>> I THINK THEY HAVE TO DIVE
INTO EXACTLY THAT FALLACY YOU
JUST PROPOSED, THAT EVERYONE
PAYS THIS 30% BECAUSE THAT’S NOT
TRUE AT ALL.
YOU HAVE TO HIGHLIGHT THIS TO
THE AMERICAN PEOPLE.
RIGHT NOW, THE APP STORE WHICH
IS ESSENTIALLY THE APP ECONOMY,
ABOUT 14% OF THE APPS PAY FOR
THE OTHER 86%.
THE OTHER 86% ARE EITHER
EXCLUDED FROM HAVING TO PAY
BECAUSE THEY MADE SWEETHEART
DEALS WITH APPLE OR THEY FUND
THEIR OPERATIONS THROUGH
ADVERTISEMENT WHICH IS EXCLUDED
FROM APPLE’S CUT.
SO YOU HAVE THESE 14% OF APPS
WHICH INCLUDE OUR APPS THAT ARE
GETTING SHAKEN DOWN SO WE CAN
PAY FOR THE REST.
WHY SHOULD BASECAMP HAVE TO PAY
FOR FACEBOOK?
BASECAMP IS A SMALL SOFTWARE
DEVELOPING COMPANY.
WE DON’T HAVE BILLIONS OF
DOLLARS TO PAY FOR IT AND AT THE
SAME TIME, APPLE IS ASKING US
FOR 30% OF OUR REVENUES AND TELL
FACEBOOK YOU CAN GET AWAY WITH
PAYING $99 A YEAR BECAUSE YOU
MAKE YOUR BILLIONS OFF
ADVERTISEMENT.
THAT IS JUST PROFOUNDLY,
INHERENTLY UNFAIR AND CONGRESS
NEEDS TO DIVE INTO THAT AND SHOW
THE AMERICAN PUBLIC THIS IS NOT
AT ALL A FAIR MARKETPLACE.
IT’S AN INCREDIBLY RIGGED AND
SPECIFICALLY DESIGNED
MARKETPLACE THAT TAKES SORT OF
ADVANTAGE OF THE WEAKEST THAT
THEY CAN.
APPLE KNOWS IT CAN’T TAKE ON
FACEBOOK DIRECTLY SO THEY TAKE
ON SMALL PLAYERS LIKE US.
LIZ: YOU TOOK ON GOOGLE AS WELL,
WHERE YOUR ISSUE WITH GOOGLE IS
ACTUALLY, GOOGLE CONTROLS, YOU
SAY, HOW CUSTOMERS OR WHETHER
CUSTOMERS CAN EVEN FIND THE
SMALLER COMPANIES ON THE
INTERNET, BECAUSE THEY DOMINATE
SEARCH AND THEREFORE, THEY KNOW
WHAT THEY WANT TO PUSH UP
HIGHER.
THAT’S WHAT YOU ALLEGE.
BUT WHAT WOULD YOU TELL CONGRESS
TO PUSH SUNDAR PICHAI ON?
>> ON EXACTLY THAT POINT.
IS GOOGLE A SEARCH ENGINE THAT
HELPS YOU FIND THINGS ON THE
INTERNET OR IS GOOGLE SIMPLY A
STOREFRONT FOR EVERYTHING ELSE
ALPHABET OFFERS.
FOR YOUTUBE OR OTHER PROPERTIES
THAT GOOGLE ALREADY HAS, THERE’S
A BUNCH OF INTERESTING RESEARCH
THAT SHOWS THAT GOOGLE IS
SENDING MORE AND MORE AND MORE
TRAFFIC TO ITS OWN SERVICES
BECAUSE THEY HAVE THIS MONOPOLY
IN THE FRONT DOOR OF THE
INTERNET.
WHEN THEY HAVE THAT MONOPOLY IT
SIMPLY MEANS PEOPLE CAN’T JUST
GO GOOINGGLE WHATEVER THEY WANT
FIND AND EXPECT TO FIND THE BEST
THING THAT’S AVAILABLE.
NO.
THEY WILL FIND GOOGLE’S OWN
THING WHICH IS ALSO AN ABUSE OF
POWER.
WE ARE SORT OF SQUEEZED BETWEEN
ALL FOUR, ALTHOUGH PARTICULARLY
FOR OUR BUSINESS, APPLE AND
GOOGLE, THEY ARE SQUEEZING FROM
EACH SIDE.
GOOGLE IS SQUEEZING US TO BUY
ADVERTISEMENT SO PEOPLE CAN
SEARCH FOR BASECAMP AND FIND OUR
PRODUCT.
APPLE IS ASKING US IF THEY DO
FIND US HEY, WE WANT 30% OF YOUR
REVENUE.
THIS IS REALLY THE OVERALL
SITUATION CONGRESS NEEDS TO
PAINT THAT THIS IS A TOTAL
ISSUE.
IT’S NOT ABOUT ONE LITTLE THING.
IT’S ABOUT THE FACT IT’S BECOME
INCREDIBLY DIFFICULT TO START A
COMPETITOR AND A SMALL COMPANY
IN TODAY’S SOFTWARE WORLD.
LIZ: THE DIFFERENCE, THOUGH, IS
THAT DURING THE FINANCIAL
CRISIS, CONGRESS DID GO AFTER
BIG BANKS.
THEY REDID ALL KINDS OF
REGULATION AND THEY HIT THEM
HARD IN FRONT OF THE PUBLIC,
BECAUSE THE PUBLIC WAS ANGRY
WITH THEM.
YOU’VE GOT NOW THESE BIG TECH
COMPANIES WHICH HAVE MADE LIFE A
LOT EASIER FOR THE CONSUMER, AT
LEAST THEY PERCEIVE IT.
I’M INTERESTED TO SEE JEFF
BEZOS, FIRST OF ALL, HE’S NEVER
OUT THERE.
HE DOESN’T TALK A LOT.
DO YOU THINK THAT HE WILL TRY
AND DEFLECT, WILL ANY OF THESE
GUYS DEFLECT, TRY AND DEFLECT
THE HEAT ON TO OTHERS SITTING,
WELL, NEXT TO THEM VIRTUALLY,
BUT AMAZON DOES NOT PUT ITS
KINDLE APPS OR ANY OF ITS APPS
ON THE IOS FOR APPLE BECAUSE
THEY WILL ARGUE WE DON’T WANT TO
BE HELD TO APPLE’S RULES, ET
CETERA.
DO YOU EXPECT TO SEE THAT KIND
OF THING WHERE THEY WILL GO
AFTER EACH OTHER?
>> YOU HOPE.
THE PROBLEM AMAZON HAS HAD WITH
APPLE IS THEY DIDN’T WANT TO
GIVE APPLE 30% OF THEIR RV NEW.E
THE KINDLE APP IS AVAILABLE BUT
YOU CAN’T BUY THE BOOKS.
IT MAKES NO SENSE.
APPLE DEFENDS ITS POLICIES, WE
ARE DOING WHAT’S BEST FOR USERS,
DOING WHAT’S POPULAR.
IS IT BEST FOR USERS THEY CAN’T
BUY BOOKS ON THEIR KINDLE APPS
ON THE iPHONE?
OF COURSE IT’S NOT.
SO YOU WOULD HOPE SOMETHING IS
GOING TO CRACK BUT
UNFORTUNATELY, I THINK THEY HAVE
ACTUALLY MORE IN COMMON THAN
THEY HAVE IN OPPOSITION AND THEY
KEEP MAKING THESE SWEETHEART
DEALS WITH EACH OTHER.
FACEBOOK DOESN’T PAY APPLE 30%
OF THEIR REVENUE.
AMAZON JUST MADE A SWEETHEART
DEAL WITH APPLE OVER THE AMAZON
PRIME VIDEO STORE SO AMAZON
COULD BE ON THE PLATFORM WITHOUT
PAYING 30% AS WELL.
THEY HAVE MORE IN COMMON AND
MORE TO LOSE BY GOING AFTER EACH
OTHER THAN JUST STANDING STRONG
AND SAYING HEY, HERE’S THE
ENTIRE DIGITAL ECONOMY, LET’S
JUST SPLIT IT AMONGST THE FOUR
OF US AND WE WILL ALL DO JUST
FINE.
LIZ: WELL, WE DON’T HOLD A LOT
OF HOPE FOR CONGRESS IN CERTAIN
REGARDS.
I’M NOT ONE OF THESE PEOPLE THAT
ALWAYS BEATS UP OUR LAWMAKERS
BUT THEY TEND NOT TO KNOW A LOT
ABOUT THE BUSINESS.
I HOPE THEY AT LEAST LISTEN TO
YOU ALTHOUGH I TEND TO ALSO
BELIEVE THESE FOUR WILL BE
LOOKED UPON AS BIG THINKERS WHO
HAVE HELPED MAKE LIFE A LITTLE
SIMPLER FOR AT LEAST SOME
PEOPLE.