NOT SOME RIGHT-WING POLITICIANS
THAT DONALD TRUMP AND MITCH
McCONNELL PACKED THE COURT WITH.
>> WITH THAT, WE BRING IN ARI FLEISCHER, CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEY
FLEISCHER, CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEY
AND LEO TERRELL AND DEMOCRATIC
STRATEGIST, JESSICA TARLOV.
LET’S START WITH THE HEADLINE
QUESTION.
ARI, YOU THINK YOU WOULD SEE
THIS DAY AND WHAT IS YOUR
REACTION?
>> FOR 50 YEARS, CONSERVATIVES
AND THE PRO LIFE COMMUNITY HAD
TO LIVE WITH A RULING THAT SHE
DISAGREED WITH.
NOW THE SHOE IS ON THE OTHER
FOOT.
THAT’S THE WAY OUR SYSTEM WORKS.
THE SYSTEM DOES WORK.
THESE THINGS HAPPEN BECAUSE OF
THE SOVEREIGNTY OF THE PEOPLE.
THE PEOPLE ELECTED THE PRESIDENT
AND THE PRESIDENT MADE THE
APPOINTMENTS
APPOINTMENTS.
AND NANCY PELOSI SAYS IF YOU
DON’T LIKE IT, TURN OUT IN
NOVEMBER.
LET THEM TRY, THIS IS THE WAY
OUR SYSTEM WORKS.
IT’S THE PROPER RULE, IT’S AN
ACCURATE RULING AND THE RIGHT
RULING.
IT SHOULD BE LEFT UP TO THE
PEOPLE OF THE STATES.
OUR SYSTEM HAD A GOOD DAY TODAY.
IT ALL WORKS.
>> Martha: JESSICA, WHEN I
LISTEN TO THE PEOPLE IN THE
CROWD THERE AND WHEN I LISTEN TO
OTHER PEOPLE THAT REACTED TO
THIS SINCE THE LEAK OF THIS
DOCUMENT, YOU HEAR A LOT OF
PEOPLE SAY I CAN’T BELIEVE THE
JUSTICES JUST WAKE UP ONE
MORNING AND DECIDE TO OVERTURN
ROE V. WADE, WHICH HAS BEEN THE
LAW OF THE LAND FOR 50 YEARS.
THAT’S NOT HOW IT WORKS.
A CASE CAME BEFORE THE COURT.
IT WAS A MISSISSIPPI BAN ON AN
ABORTION 15 WEEKS IN A
PREGNANCY.
THE JUSTICES THAT MAKE UP THE
COURT SAID THERE WAS NEVER
INTRINSICALLY IN THE
CONSTITUTION A RIGHT TO GIVE
THIS RIGHT IN THE FIRST PLACE.
WE NEED TO SEND THIS BACK TO THE
STATES WHERE PEOPLE ARE CLOSER
TO THE DECISION-MAKING PROCESS
AND THEY CAN VOTE FOR WHAT KIND
OF ENVIRONMENT THAT THEY WANT TO
BE IN IN THEIR OWN STATE.
WHAT IS YOUR REACTION TO THAT,
JESSICA?
>> MY REACTION IS THAT THE
SYSTEM MAY HAVE WORKED IN SO FAR
IS THEY’RE ALLOWED TO DO THIS,
BUT THEY’RE IGNORING THE FACT
THAT THIS IS A TERRIBLE
PRECEDENT FOR WHAT IS TO COME.
ALITO MADE IT CLEAR THAT DIDN’T
THINK THIS IT WOULD EXPAND TO
CONTRACEPTION AND SAME SEX
MARRIAGE.
BUT THOMAS SAID HE THOUGHT THEY
SHOULD BE REEVALUATED.
WHEN JUSTICES KAVANAUGH AND
GORSUCH LIED TO THE SENATORS
THAT THEY MET WITH --
>> Martha: THAT’S NOT TRUE.
>> THEY SAID IT WAS SETTLED
PRECEDENCE.
>> Martha: NO, NO, IT’S NOT
TRUE.
IT’S AN INACCURATE READING OF
WHAT THEY SAID.
I CAN’T LET THAT GO.
I’M GOING TO LET YOU FINISH.
>> LET ME FINISH THING.
>> Martha: WE’LL PICK IT APART
IN A SECOND.
FINISH YOUR THOUGHT AND WE’LL GO
ON.
>> I APPRECIATE THAT.
THESE JUSTICES LEFT THAT THESE
STATES HAVE TRIGGER LAWS.
WOMEN WHO WERE IN SOME CASES
RAPED OR HAVE A BABY AS A
PRODUCT OF INSIST CANNOT GET
REPRODUCTIVE HEALTHCARE.
WHERE IT GOES TO PERSONHOOD
BILLS MAY EFFECT WHETHER YOU CAN
HAVE IBF TREATMENT.
NOW WHO SAYS THAT EMBRYOS IN A
FROZEN LOCKER ARE PEOPLE, TOO.
IT WILL AFFECT WOMEN OF COLOR
AND TELLING PEOPLE SUCK IT UP,
IF YOU DON’T LIKE IT, CROSS
STATE LINES, THAT’S AN UNDUE
BURDEN ON PEOPLE THAT SHOULD
MAKE THESE CHOICES.
THIS IS NOT ABOUT WOMEN THAT GO
OUT AND HAVE A ONE NIGHT STAND AND SAY I’LL HAVE AN ABORTION TO
AND SAY I’LL HAVE AN ABORTION TO
TAKE CARE OF IT.
WHAT ABOUT ECTOPIC PREGNANCIES?
IF YOU DON’T HAVE AN ABORTION
WITH AN ECTOPIC PREGNANCY, YOU
CAN DIE FROM IT.
IN A NUMBER OF CONSERVATIVE
STATES, THESE JUSTICES SAY THEY
DON’T CARE IF THOSE WOMEN DIE.
>> Martha: OKAY.
THOSE ARE ALL EXAMPLES THAT ARE
ALL OVER THE BOARD.
I WANT TO POINT OUT ONE THING.
SAYING AS A JUDGE DURING A
HEARING THAT YOU ACCEPT, WHICH
IS THE WORD THAT THEY USED, THAT
THERE’S A SETELED LAW BASED ON
ROE V. WADE IS NOT THE SAME AS
SAYING HOW YOU WOULD DECIDE ON
THAT LAW IF A NEW CASE WERE TO
COME BEFORE YOU.
WHETHER WE’RE TALKING ABOUT
LIBERALLY APPOINTED JUSTICES OR
CONSERVATIVELY APPOINTED
JUSTICES ACROSS THE BOARD WHEN
WE WATCH THESE HEARINGS, THEY
REFRAIN FOR SAYING HOW THEY
WOULD DETERMINE A CASE WHEN
THEY’RE ON THE COURT.
YOU CAN SAY I ACCEPT THAT THAT
IS SETTLED LAW.
LOOK AT PLESSI VERSUS FERGUSON
THAT WAS OVERTURNED BY BROWN
VERSUS THE BOARD OF EDUCATION.
THAT’S WHAT THOSE INDIVIDUALS
SAID.
THEY SAID I ACCEPT IT’S SETTLED
LAW.
THEY DIDN’T SAY HOW THEY WOULD
DETERMINE IF THEY WERE
CONFRONTED WITH A NEW CASE.
LONG-WINDED BUT IMPORTANT.
LEO, GO AHEAD.
YOU’RE REACTION TO THAT.
>> FIRST OF ALL, YOU’RE
ABSOLUTELY RIGHT.
AND PLESSI VERSUS FERGUSON -- 30
YEARS OF TEACHING LAW EVERYTHING
THAT JESSICA SAID IS WRONG.
AND PLESSI VERSUS FERGUSON,
1896, BROWN VERSUS BOARD OF
EDUCATION, 16 YEARS THEY GOT IT
RIGHT.
FOR YOU TO INJECT THE RACE CARD,
20 MILLION BLACK BABIES ABOREDED
SINCE 1973.
LET ME JUST FOCUS ON THE LAW.
THAT’S WHAT I KNOW.
THESE JUSTICES LOOKED AT THE
CONSTITUTION AND SAID WE DON’T
SEE ANYTHING ABOUT ABORTION.
THE 14th AMENDMENT WAS CREATED
AFTER THE CIVIL RIGHTS.
IT WAS ABOUT RACIAL EQUALITY,
PERIOD.
END OF STORY.
I’LL CHALLENGE JESSICA TO FIND
ANY SECTION WHERE THERE’S ANY
LEGISLATIVE CONSTITUTIONAL
HISTORY SUPPORTING ABORTION.
WHAT THESE FIVE JUSTICES DID,
MARTHA AND FOX VIEWERS, THEY
INTERPRETED THE CONSTITUTION AND
REFUSED TO MAKE A POLITICAL
COMPROMISE.
THEY FOLLOWED THE LAW.
YOU MAY NOT LIKE THE LAW, BUT WE
ARE A NATION OF LAWS.
THAT’S WHAT THEY DID.
WHAT THEY BASICALLY SAID WAS IF
YOU DON’T LIKE THE RULING, YOU
GO TO THE STATES.
THE 50 STATES ARE THE 50
LABORATORIES OF A FEDERAL
SYSTEM.
THAT’S EXACTLY WHAT IT IS.
FOR YOU TO MAKE REFERENCE FOR
THE INABILITY OF PEOPLE TO
TRAVEL, THIS IS NOT 1950.
INTERSTATE TRAVEL IS LEGAL FOR
EVERY AMERICAN IN THIS COUNTRY.
THAT’S THE LAW.
THAT IS THE ABSOLUTE LAW.
AND ALSO, IN THE CITING BY
ALITO, HE LISTED NUMEROUS CASES,
NUMEROUS CASES WHERE THE SUPREME
COURT MADE A CORRECTION IN AN
EARLY DECISION.
FINAL POINT, MARTHA.
TO ACCUSE THESE JUSTICES OF
LYING WHEN YOU HAVE SUSAN
COLLINS, PELOSI AND THESE
INDIVIDUALS TRYING TO MAKE
POLITICAL POINTS, TRYING TO DO
FUND-RAISING, IS INSULTING TO
THE AMERICANS’ INTELLIGENCE.
PRESIDENT TRUMP GOT IT RIGHT.
HE GOT THREE JUSTICES THAT
INTERPRETED THE CONSTITUTION.
THANK YOU FOR ALLOWING ME TO SAY
THAT, MARTHA.
>> Martha: ABSOLUTELY.
WITH REGARD TO THE
POLITICALIZATION OF THIS, IT
HAPPENED WITHIN MINUTES, THIS IS
CHUCK TODD EARLIER.
HERE’S WHAT HE SAID.
WE HEARD NANCY PELOSI SAYING
THESE WERE CONSERVATIVE
POLITICAL ACTIVISTS, JURISTS.
HERE’S WHAT CHUCK TODD SAID
EARLIER TODAY.
>> I THINK THE SUPREME COURT
IS -- I THINK THERE’S NO MORE
BLACK REMEMBERS.
THE REMEMBERS ARE RED AND BLUE.
THIS IS THE -- WE’VE BEEN
WATCHING THIS HAPPEN
PARTICULARLY IN AN AGGRESSIVE
WAY THE LAST 15 YEARS.
>> Martha: ARI WHAT DO YOU
THINK?
>> EVERY TIME SOMEBODY DOES
SOMETHING CONSERVATIVE, THE
MEDIA SAYS IT’S NOT BASED ON
FACTS OR TRUTH OR ANALYSIS OR
HISTORY OR LAW.
WHEN A DEMOCRAT DOES THE SAME
THING, DIDN’T HEAR CHUCK TODD
CRITICIZING THE LIBERALS ON THE
COURT, THIS IS WHAT IS WRONG
WITH THE PRESS.
THIS IS THEIR HYPOCRISY.
AND ONE THING I WANT TO TOUCH ON
WHAT JESSICA SAY.
IF ANY LEGISLATURE IS FOOLISH
ENOUGH TO WANT TO BAN
CONTRACEPTION, LET THEM TRY.
THEY WILL ALL GET VOTED OUT OF
OFFICE.
THIS IS NOT THE 1920s OR 1930s.
BUT THE PRINCIPAL POINT IS, THE
PEOPLE AND LEGISLATURES HAVE THE
RIGHT TO MAKE THESE DECISIONS.
THE CONSTITUTION AND THE
DECLARATION GRANT US THE RIGHT
TO LIFE, LIBERTY AND THE PURSUIT
OF HAPPINESS.
A LOT OF IT IS LEFT OF THE
LEGISLATURES.
IF THEY WANT TO BAN
CONTRACEPTION, WHICH IS THE FEAR
ON THE LEFT, NOT A SINGLE ONE
WOULD DO IT BECAUSE THE AMERICAN
PEOPLE WOULD RISE AGAINST THEM.
IT IS THE PREROGATIVE OF
LEGISLATURES TO MAKE THESE
DECISIONS UNDER OUR SYSTEM.
THAT’S HOW IT SHOULD WORK.
>> Martha: JESSICA, I’LL LET YOU
RESPOND TO THAT.
>> I KNOW HOW THE SYSTEM WORKS.
I BELIEVE NOT A CONSTITUTIONAL
LAWYER BUT I’M WELL-READ ABOUT
IT.
THE POINT I WAS MAKING, THE
JUSTICES DID WHAT THEY COULD DO,
BUT THE IMPLICATIONS OF WHAT
THEY HAVE DONE ARE SO DIRE FOR
MILLIONS OF WOMEN ACROSS THIS
COUNTRY.
I WOULD LIKE TO SEE IF THESE
CONSERVATIVE LEGISLATURES THAT
ARI IS SPEAKING ABOUT WILL
SUDDENLY GRANT MATERNITY LEAVE
FOR EVERYBODY IF THEY’RE GOING
TO BE HELPING MOTHERS THAT WILL
NOW BE TAKING CARE OF BABIES
THAT THEY DIDN’T WANT.
FOR EVERY MAN TAKES PART IN
CONCEIVING A CHILD, SUDDENLY
HE’S ON THE HOOK FOR CHILD
SUPPORT.
WE WILL HAVE UNIVERSAL PRE-K
EVERYWHERE.
THIS IS WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE OUT
THERE IN THE REAL WORLD.
>> I CAN’T BELIEVE YOU’RE USING
THIS QUALITY TIME TO PUSH A
DEMOCRATIC AGENDA.
GO AHEAD.
I’LL BE QUIET.
GO AHEAD.
KEEP TALKING.
IT’S RIDICULOUS.
>> IT’S NOT RIDICULOUS.
I AM A DEMOCRAT BUT MOST OF ALL
I’M A WOMAN THAT JUST WENT
THROUGH A PREGNANCY.
WERE YOU PREGNANT?
>> Martha: NO, NO, FINISH YOUR
THOUGHT.
THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS -- LET
ME POINT OUT SOME FACTS HERE.
MORE THAN -- PEOPLE HAVE
DIFFERENT TAKES ON THIS FORM OF
BIRTH CONTROL AND -- OF
ABORTION.
THAT IS JUST THAT MORE THAN HALF
IN SOME ESTIMATED CLOSE TO 2/3s
OF THE ABORTIONS ACROSS THIS
COUNTRY ARE DONE BY PILL THAT
COMES IN THE MAIL.
THAT PEOPLE CAN GET IT ACROSS
STATE LINES AND IT IS AFFORDABLE
AND THERE’S NO DOUBT IN MY MIND
THAT ONE OF PLANNED PARENTHOOD’S
AVENUES IS TO MAKE SURE THAT
ANYBODY IN ANY STATE CAN GET
THEIR HANDS ON THESE TWO PILLS.
END OF PREGNANCY ARE VERY
AVAILABLE.
THE OTHER THING I’D SAY IS
BECAUSE OF TECHNOLOGY AND
BECAUSE OF CONTRACEPTION, THE
NUMBER OF ABORTIONS IN THIS
COUNTRY THE PAST 20 YEARS OR SO
HAS DECLINED BY 20%.
I DON’T KNOW WHAT HAPPENED,
JESSICA.
AND I’M GOING TO ASK YOU TO
RESPOND TO THIS.
WHAT HAPPENED TO THE DEMOCRAT
LINE OF THINKING THAT ABORTIONS
SHOULD BE SAFE AND LEGAL AND
RARE?
THANK GOODNESS IT HAS BECOME
MORE RARE.
WHAT I’M SEEING TODAY ARE YOUNG
WOMEN STANDING IN THE STREETS
SAYING THAT THEY ARE PROUD OF
THEIR ABORTIONS AND THAT THEY
WILL AID AND ABET OTHER PEOPLE’S
ABORTIONS.
THIS IS A TURN IN THIS
CONVERSATION THAT I FIND -- I DO
FIND DISTURBING.
YOU KNOW, IT -- WE’RE A LONG WAY
FROM WANTING -- FROM THE
UNIVERSAL FAILING THAT IT SHOULD
BE AS RARE AS POSSIBLE.
>> I’M NOT AN ACTIVIST STANDING
STREAMING IN THE STREETS ABOUT
HAVING AN ABORTION.
I HAVEN’T HAD ONE.
IF I HAD ONE, I WOULDN’T HIDE
FROM PEOPLE BUT WANT TO USE IT
AS A PIECE OF A CONVERSATION
ABOUT HOW IMPORTANT HAVING
ACCESS TO REPRODUCTIVE CARE FOR
WOMEN.
AND ABORTIONS IS A REASON THAT
ROE V. WADE SHOULD STAY IN
PLACE.
THERE WAS A SPIKE IN THE LATE
80s AND 90s AND IT’S BEEN
DECLINING SINCE THEN.
WHAT WILL HAPPEN NOW THAT THE
JUSTICES HAVE MADE THIS DECISION
IS THAT THERE WILL BE A SPIKE
AGAIN.
THEY WILL BE UNSAFE ABORTIONS.
THEY WILL BE BACK-ALLEY
ABORTIONS --
>> DOESN’T SEEM LIKE THERE’S A
NEED FOR THAT.
THERE’S TRANSPORTATION, PLACES
WHERE YOU CAN GET AN ABORTION IF
YOU --
>> IF YOU WORK AT AMAZON THEY’LL
PAY FOR IT FOR YOU?
HOW MANY WOMEN WORK TWO JOBS AND
SUPPORT A FAMILY ALREADY AND GET
PREGNANT AND YOU TELL THEM, JUST
HOP ON THE HIGHWAY, NO BIG DEAL.
WHAT ABOUT THE MONEY FOR THAT?
WHAT ABOUT THE --
>> I DID NOT SAY THAT.
>> Martha: HE HAS SOMETHING ELSE
TO SAY.
GO AHEAD, LEO.
>> THANK YOU.
I DID NOT SAY WHAT YOU SAID.
THOSE ARE CLASSIC DEMOCRATIC
TALKING POINTS.
IF YOU SCAN THESE LEFT WING
PROGRAMS, YOU KNOW WHAT THEY’RE
SAYING?
HOW THIS IS ABOUT ROE V. WADE.
THEY EXPAND IT TO EVERYTHING ON
THE DEMOCRATIC PLATFORM.
THEY’RE TALKING ABOUT THIS
AFFECTING INTERRACIAL MARRIAGES,
A TOTAL DISCONNECT.
THE 14th AMENDMENT, EQUAL
PROTECTION PROTECTS THAT.
THAT’S NOT STOPPING THEM FROM
REPRESENTING THE TRUTH ABOUT THE
LIMITATION OF THIS RULING.
YOU HAVE MAXINE WATERS AND
PEOPLE ARGUING VIOLENCE.
MAXINE JUST SAID A FEW MINUTES
AGO, IGNORE WHAT THEY SAID.
THAT IS A TOTAL DISREGARD TO OUR
BRANCHES OF GOVERNMENT, THE
SUPREME COURT.
>> Martha: EVERYONE BENEFITS FOR
HAVING AN UNDERSTANDING OF WHY
AND HOW THIS DECISION WAS MADE.
IT’S ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT THE
ORIGINAL DECISION WAS ACTUALLY
CONSTITUTIONAL.
IT IS SEPARATE FROM THE OTHER
BROADER INTERPRETATION THAT A
LOT OF PEOPLE WANT TO ASCRIBE TO
IT.
WE’RE GOING TO CONTINUE TO GO
THROUGH THIS THROUGHOUT THE
COURSE OF TODAY.
GREAT GROUP.
ARI FLEISCHER, THANKS SO MUCH.
GREAT TO HAVE YOU WITH US.
WE HAVEN’T SEEN YOU IN AWHILE.
THRILLED TO HAVE YOU BACK.