SOMEBODY WHO AMONG OTHER THINGS WAS A KEY MEMBER OF THE SPECIAL
COUNSEL’S TEAM AMONG PROSECUTORS
WORKING FOR ROBERT MUELLER.
THAT IS STILL TO COME TONIGHT.
THIS NEW NEWS WE’RE LEARNING
TONIGHT IS THAT THE LEVERAGE
PART OF THIS SCANDAL, THE PART
WHERE PRESIDENT TRUMP DIDN’T
JUST DEMAND THAT UKRAINE HELP
HIM WITH THESE INVESTIGATIONS,
HE LEVERAGED U.S. POLICY TOWARD
UKRAINE TO TRY AND FORCE THEM TO
DO IT, HE PUT A HOLD ON
UKRAINE’S CRUCIAL MILITARY AID
FROM THE UNITED STATES
GOVERNMENT WHILE HE WAS TRYING
TO PRESSURE THEM INTO DOING
THESE INVESTIGATIONS FOR HIM.
THAT PART OF THE SCANDAL, THE
LEVERAGE PART OF THE SCANDAL,
THE WITHHOLDING MILITARY AID
FROM UKRAINE PART OF THE SCANDAL
WE ARE LEARNING TONIGHT FOR THE
FIRST TIME THAT APPARENTLY
CAUSED TWO DIFFERENT OFFICIALS
IN THE OFFICE OF MANAGEMENT AND
BUDGET, TWO DIFFERENT PEOPLE WHO
WERE INVOLVED IN THAT PROCESS OF
TRUMP HOLDING UP THAT MILITARY
AID, IT CAUSED THEM TO QUIT
THEIR JOBS RATHER THAN BE PART
OF THIS, APPARENTLY.
THE NEWS COMES FROM THIS
DEPOSITION WHICH WAS JUST
RELEASED TONIGHT FROM THE
IMPEACHMENT COMMITTEES SINCE THE
TESTIMONY OF MARK SANDY WHO WAS
A CAREER STAFFER INCIDENTALLY A
MILITARY VETERAN, ALSO A VETERAN
OFFICIAL AT THE OFFICE OF
MANAGEMENT AND BUDGET AT OMB.
AND THIS IS WHERE HE BREAKS THAT
NEWS.
NEWS. HE IS ASKED BY COMMITTEE
COUNSEL, QUOTE, ARE YOU AWARE OF
ANYONE RESIGNING OR LEAVING OMB
UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES AT LEAST
IN PART BECAUSE OF THE MANNER
WHICH OMB WAS HANDLING UKRAINE
SECURITY ASSISTANCE.
SECURITY ASSISTANCE. ANSWER, I’M AWARE OF ONE
COLLEAGUE WHO LEFT IN SEPTEMBER.
I’M ALWAYS RELUCTANT TO SPEAK TO
SOMEONE ELSE’S MOTIVATIONS.
QUESTION, WELL, DID YOU SPEAK
WITH THIS PERSON WHO LEFT IN
SEPTEMBER ABOUT THEIR DEPARTURE
FROM OMB?
FROM OMB? ANSWER, YES I DID.
QUESTION, AND DID THAT PERSON
EXPRESS TO YOU EITHER IN THAT
CONVERSATION OR ANY OTHER PRIOR
CONVERSATIONS THEIR POSITION
WITH REGARD UKRAINE SECURITY
ASSISTANCE.
ASSISTANCE. HE DEPRESSED SOME FRUSTRATIONS
ABOUT NOT UNDERSTANDING THE
REASON FOR THE HOLD.
THAT’S MY RECOLLECTION.
QUESTION, WAS THIS INDIVIDUAL
WITHIN THE LEGAL DIVISION?
ANSWER, NO.
ANSWER, NO. QUESTION, ARE YOU AWARE OF ANY
INDIVIDUAL IN THE LEGAL DIVISION
RESIGNING OR LEAVING OMB?
ANSWER, OH.
ANSWER, OH. QUESTION, AT LEAST IN PART
BECAUSE OF UKRAINE SECURITY
ASSISTANCE.
ASSISTANCE. ANSWER, OH, OH.
YES, I AM.
MEANING THEY WERE ASKING HIM
ABOUT THIS PERSON THEY HAD HEARD
LEFT FROM THE LEGAL DIVISION.
HE STARTED TELLING THEM ABOUT A
WHOLE OTHER PERSON WHO RESIGNED
TOO AND THEN HE HAS TO CLARIFY I
KNOW SOMEBODY WHO QUIT THE LEGAL
DIVISION TOO.
DIVISION TOO. AND THIS PERSON IN THE LEGAL
OFFICE EXPRESSED TO ME CONCERNS
ABOUT ACTIONS VISA VI THE
IMPOUNDMENT CONTROL ACT.
QUESTION, IN THE CONTEXT OF THE
UKRAINE SECURITY ASSISTANCE AND
THE HOLD.
THE HOLD. ANSWER, QUES, I’M AWARE OF THIS
PERSON’S FRUSTRATIONS IN THAT
AREA, YES.
AREA, YES. QUESTION, OKAY SO THIS PERSON
THAT WORKED AT OMB LEGAL
EXPRESSED CONCERNS ABOUT THE
HOLD ON UKRAINE SECURITY
ASSISTANCE AND RESIGNED FROM
OMB.
OMB. DID THIS PERSON TELL YOU THEY
WERE LEAVING OR RESIGNING FROM
OMB AT LEAST IN PART BECAUSE OF
THEIR CONCERNS OR FRUSTRATIONS
ABOUT THE HOLD ON UKRAINE
SECURITY ASSISTANCE?
SECURITY ASSISTANCE? ANSWER, YES.
ANSWER, YES. IN TERMS OF HOW -- YES.
IN TERMS OF PROCESS.
AND THERE’S SOME BACK AND FORTH
WITH THE LAWYER WHO’S THERE WITH
MARK SANDY, THIS OMB OFFICIAL.
BUT EVENTUALLY SANDY COMES BACK
TO THE POINT AND SAYS THIS.
HE SAYS, QUOTE, THE INDIVIDUAL
WHO RESIGNED FROM THE OFFICE AT
OMB DID NOTE A DISAGREEMENT ON
THIS TOPIC.
THIS TOPIC. QUESTION, AND THIS TOPIC BEING
THE HOLD ON UKRAINE SECURITY
ASSISTANCE, ANSWER, CORRECT.
>> OKAY, JUST TO BE CLEAR WHAT
WAS THE DISAGREEMENT WITH?
WAS THE DISAGREEMENT WITH THE
FACT THAT OMB WAS IMPLEMENTING
THE HOLD?
THE HOLD? WAS IT DISAGREEMENT HOW THE
GENERAL COUNSEL’S OFFICE WAS
HOLDING IT?
HOLDING IT? WHAT WAS THE DISAGREEMENT?
ANSWER, I THINK THE BEST WAY TO
CHARACTERIZE IT WOULD BE A
DISSENTING OPINION VISA VI THE
IMPOUNDMENT CONTROL ACT
PROVISIONS.
PROVISIONS. MEANING A DISSENTING OPINION
OVER WHETHER WHAT THE PRESIDENT
HAD ORDERED HERE WAS ILLEGAL OR
NOT.
NOT. AND IMPOUNDMENT CONTROL ACT IS
NOT SOMETHING THAT, YOU KNOW,
ROLLS DRIPPINGLY OFF THE TONGUE,
IT’S NOT SOMETHING WE TALK ABOUT
HERE.
HERE. BUT IT’S A BASIC IDEA.
CONGRESS APPROPRIATED THESE
MILITARY FUNDS FOR UKRAINE.
THAT MEANT THE WHITE HOUSE WAS
LEGALLY OBLIGATED TO DISPERSE
THOSE FUNDS, RIGHT?
CONGRESS APPROPRIATES THE MONEY,
WHITE HOUSE IS LEGALLY OBLIGATED
TO DISPERSE THEM.
BUT THE PRESIDENT ORDERED THE
WHITE HOUSE TO NOT DO THAT.
THE PRESIDENT ORDERED THAT THE
FUNDING SHOULD BE HELD UP.
AND NOW WE KNOW AS OF TONIGHT
THAT TWO PEOPLE INCLUDING ONE IN
THE LEGAL OFFICE AT OMB RESIGNED
OVER THAT.
OVER THAT. ONE PERSON RESIGNED FROM OMB
BECAUSE OF ACCORDING TO THIS
WITNESS, NOT UNDERSTANDING THE
REASON FOR THE HOLD THAT
PRESIDENT TRUMP PUT ON THOSE
FUNDS FOR UKRAINE.
ANOTHER PERSON APPARENTLY
RESIGNED FROM THE LEGAL OFFICE
AT OMB BECAUSE OF THE PROSPECT
THAT WHAT THE PRESIDENT ORDERED
THE HOLDING UP OF THOSE FUNDS,
COULD HAVE BEEN ILLEGAL.
AS "THE WASHINGTON POST" NOTES
TONIGHT ALTHOUGH CURRENT AND
FORMER GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS HAVE
TESTIFIED THAT THEY WERE ALARMED
ABOUT THE WHITE HOUSE’S DECISION
TO WITH HOLD THE MONEY FROM
UKRAINE, QUOTE, MARK SANDY’S
TESTIMONY IS THE FIRST PUBLIC
CONFIRMATION THAT THE DISPUTE
OVER HANDLING THE UKRAINE AID
BECAME SO INTENSE AT OMB IT
CONTRIBUTED TO RESIGNATIONS FROM
THE AGENCY.
THE AGENCY. AND, AGAIN, WE DON’T KNOW WHO
THESE OFFICIALS ARE WHO
RESIGNED.
RESIGNED. THE QUESTIONING HERE, LIKE I
MENTIONED, KIND OF MAKES IT SEEM
LIKE THE IMPEACHMENT
INVESTIGATORS KNEW THERE WAS
SOMEBODY IN THE LEGAL OFFICE WHO
QUIT IN PROTEST BUT THEY MAYBE
DIDN’T KNOW THAT A SECOND
OFFICIAL ALSO QUIT AS WELL.
SO THEY’RE ASKING ABOUT THE
PERSON FROM THE LEGAL OFFICE,
THAT KIND OF VOLUNTEERS SOMEONE
ELSE HE KNEW QUIT OVER THI IS NE
AGAIN, WE DON’T KNOW THE NAMES
OF THESE OFFICIALS WHO QUIT OVER
THE PRESIDENT HOLDING UP THIS
AID.
AID. BUT THE QUESTIONS ABOUT THE
POTENTIALLY ILLEGAL NATURE OF
WHAT THE PRESIDENT WAS ORDERING
APPEARED TO NOT HAVE BEEN NICHE
CONCERNS AND APPEAR TO HAVE BEEN
WIDESPREAD AMONG OFFICIALS WHO
KNOW HOW THIS STUFF IS SUPPOSED
TO WORK UNDER THE LAW.
FOR EXAMPLE, THERE’S THIS
PORTION OF THE MARK SANDY
DEPOSITION WHERE INVESTIGATORS
ASK ABOUT HIS OWN CONTACT WITH
AN OFFICIAL THAT SEEMS TO BE AT
THE PENTAGON, AN OFFICIAL WHOSE
NAME IS REDACTED.
QUESTION, SHE WAS EXPRESSING NOT
ONLY HER OWN CONCERNS BUT WAS
EXPRESSING THE CONCERNS OF OTHER
STAFF?
STAFF? ANSWER, FROM MARK SANDY, THAT’S
CORRECT.
CORRECT. AND WHAT WERE THOSE CONCERNS?
ANSWER, THE CONCERNS WERE VISA
VI THE IMPOUNDMENT CONTROL ACT.
SO THAT APPEARS TO BE A PENTAGON
OFFICIAL SPEAKING ON BEHALF OF
HERSELF AND HER STAFF RAISING
CONCERNS ABOUT POTENTIAL
ILLEGALITY OF THE HOLD FROM THE
PRESIDENT.
PRESIDENT. THERE’S OTHER OFFICIAL WHOSE
NAME IS ALSO REDACTED.
MARK SANDY SAYS, QUOTE, I’M
AWARE OF ONE INDIVIDUAL FROM THE
BUDGET REVIEW DIVISION WHO
EXPRESSED SIMILAR CONCERNS.
WERE THOSE CONCERNS EXPRESSED TO
YOU?
YOU? ANSWER, ON ONE OCCASION I
DEFINITELY RECALL.
DEFINITELY RECALL. QUESTION, WHO WAS THAT ONE
INDIVIDUAL?
INDIVIDUAL? THE NAME IS REDACTED.
WHAT DID THAT REDACTED PERSONS
NAME TELL YOU?
SHE MADE A GENERAL COMMENT THAT
REFLECTED THE CONCERN ABOUT ATHE
APPORTIONMENTS.
APPORTIONMENTS. HER CONCERNS WERE VISA VI THE
IMPOUNDMENT CONTROL ACT.
VISA VI THE LAW THAT SAYS ONCE
CONGRESS HAS APPROPRIATED THESE
FUNDS, THE WHITE HOUSE CAN’T
JUST HOLD THEM UP FOR WHATEVER
REASON.
REASON. I MEAN, WE ALSO KNOW FROM THIS
NEW TESTIMONY TONIGHT THAT THE
WHITE HOUSE HIMSELF, MR. SANDY
HIMSELF ALSO RAISED CONCERNS
ABOUT THAT LAW, ABOUT THE
POSSIBILITY THAT WHAT THE
PRESIDENT WAS TRYING TO DO HERE,
WITHHOLDING THIS AID TO UKRAINE
WAS AN ILLEGAL ACT.
AFTER A TRUMP APPOINTEE NAMED
MICHAEL DUFFY TOLD MARK SANDY TO
SIGN THE PAPERWORK OFFICIALLY
PUTTING A HOLD ON THE AID TO
UKRAINE, MARK SANDY SAYS THIS.
QUOTE, SO ON THAT DAY I
EMPHASIZED THAT WOULD RAISE A
NUMBER OF QUESTIONS THAT WE
WOULD NEED TO ADDRESS.
AND SO I ADVISED WE WOULD WANT
TO CONSULT WITH OUR OFFICE OF
GENERAL COUNSEL ON THOSE
QUESTIONS FIRST.
QUESTIONS FIRST. SO WE KNOW AS OF TONIGHT AT
LEAST TWO PEOPLE IN THE OFFICE
OF MANAGEMENT AND BUDGET QUIT
OVER WHAT THE PRESIDENT WAS
DOING HOLDING UP THIS AID TO
UKRAINE.
UKRAINE. MARK SANDY HIMSELF DOESN’T QUIT
OVER HIM SHARING THESE CONCERNS
THAT THIS MIGHT BE AN ILLEGAL
ACT BY THE PRESIDENT.
BUT HE IS CONCERNED THAT THIS
MIGHT BE ILLEGAL.
AND HE SAYS SO TO HIS BOSS.
HE SAYS HE WANTS TO GO TO IT
LAWYERS ON THIS.
WELL, OF COURSE IN THIS SCANDAL
THAT WILL NOT DO.
AND SO THE WAY THIS UNSPOOLS AND
THE WAY WE CAN NOW SEE IT IN A
WAY WE DIDN’T KNOW ABOUT BEFORE
THIS DEPOSITION TONIGHT -- THE
WAY THIS UNSPOOLS IS THAT THE
PRESIDENT HAS ORDERED THIS HOLD
UP ON THE AID.
THE CAREER STAFF THAT ARE
SUPPOSED TO EXECUTE AN ORDER
LIKE THAT, THEY ALL RAISE RED
FLAGS.
FLAGS. YOU WANT US TO DO WHAT NOW?
ISN’T THAT ILLEGAL?
I THINK WE’RE GOING TO NEED TO
RUN THIS BY THE LAWYERS.
THE WHITE HOUSE RESPONSE TO THAT
WE NOW KNOW BY TAKING THE CAREER
STAFF MEMBER WHO’S LITERALLY
SUPPOSED TO SIGN THE PAPERWORK
TO HOLD UP THE MONEY, MARK
SANDY, THEY TOOK HIM OFF THIS
JOB.
JOB. THIS PART OF HIS JOB WHERE HE
SIGNS OFF ON THE MONEY EITHER
BEING DISPERSED OR HELD UP, THAT
PART OF HIS JOB IS TAKEN AWAY
FROM HIM.
FROM HIM. SO A TRUMP POLITICAL APPOINTEE,
MR. DUFFY, CAN DO IT INSTEAD.
AND ACCORDING TO OMB STAFFERS
THIS IS APPARENTLY
UNPRECEDENTED.
UNPRECEDENTED. AND, YOU KNOW, CIRCUMSTANTIALLY
THIS UNPRECEDENTED ACT OF
PUTTING THIS POLITICAL APPOINTEE
IN CHARGE OF HOLDING UP OR
DISPERINGING THE MONEY AND
INSTEAD PUTTING IN A TRUMP
APPOINTEE, THE FORMER EXECUTIVE
DIRECTOR OF THE WISCONSIN
REPUBLICAN PARTY, PUTTING THAT
GUY IN CHARGE OF DISPERSING THE
MONEY INSTEAD OF THE
TECHNOCRATES WHO DO THAT SORT OF
STUFF, THAT APPEARS TO HAVE BEEN
AN EFFORT TO SEAMLESSLY CONTINUE
TO CARRY OUT THIS ORDER OF THE
PRESIDENT TO WITHHOLD THE AID
DESPITE THE EXPRESSED BELIEF BY
SENIOR STAFF AT THE AGENCY THAT
THOSE ORDERS FROM THE PRESIDENT
WERE ILLEGAL.
WERE ILLEGAL. IF YOU’VE GOT CAREER STAFFERS
WHO ARE STARTING TO SQUEAK ABOUT
WHETHER OR NOT THEY’RE GOING TO
CARRY OUT THIS POTENTIALLY
ILLEGAL ORDER OF THE PRESIDENT,
WELL YOU MIGHT WANT TO GET THEM
OUT OF THE WAY, PUT IN SOMEBODY
WHO’S NOT GOING TO SQUEAK.
AND WE NOW KNOW THAT THAT WAS
THE ORDER OF EVENTS.
AND WE NOW KNOW THERE IS AN
OVERT PAPER TRAIL FOR ALL OF IT.
AND THAT’S THE OTHER THING
THAT’S NEW HERE TONIGHT.
QUESTION, DID YOU HEAR OF ANY
QUESTIONS THAT WERE BEING RAISED
BY OMB ABOUT UKRAINE SECURITY
ASSISTANCE AT THE END OF JUNE OR
THE BEGINNING OF JULY?
ANSWER, QUES.
ANSWER, QUES. CAN YOU DESCRIBE WHAT YOU HEARD?
I HEARD THAT THE PRESIDENT HAD
SEEN A MEDIA REPORT, AND HE HAD
QUESTIONS ABOUT THE ASSISTANCE.
WHEN DID YOU HEAR THAT THE
PRESIDENT HAD SEEN A MEDIA
REPORT AND HAD QUESTIONS ABOUT
THE ASSISTANCE?
THE ASSISTANCE? ON JUNE 19th.
DO YOU KNOW WHAT THE MEDIA
REPORT -- WHAT THAT MEDIA REPORT
WAS?
WAS? ANSWER, I DON’T RECALL THE
SPECIFIC ARTICLE.
SPECIFIC ARTICLE. QUESTION, WHO TOLD YOU THAT THE
PRESIDENT HAD THESE CONCERNS OR
THESE QUESTIONS?
THESE QUESTIONS? ANSWER, MIKE DUFFY.
AND THAT WAS A CONVERSATION YOU
HAD WITH MR. DUFFY ON JUNE 19th?
I BELIEVE ACTUALLY IT WAS AN
E-MAIL.
E-MAIL. OH, WHAT EXACTLY DID MR. DUFFY
SAY TO THE BEST OF YOUR
RECOLLECTION IN THAT E-MAIL?
HE SAID THAT THE PRESIDENT HAD
QUESTIONS ABOUT THIS PRESS
REPORT AND THAT HE WAS SEEKING
ADDITIONAL INFORMATION.
ADDITIONAL INFORMATION. SO THAT’S JUNE 19th, AND
ACCORDING TO THIS DEPOSITION
THAT WE JUST GOT TONIGHT,
ACCORDING TO THIS TESTIMONY ON
JUNE 19th THERE IS AN E-MAIL
THAT PROVES THAT THE ORDER TO
START QUESTIONING THE MILITARY
AID TO UKRAINE IS FROM THE
PRESIDENT PERSONALLY.
PRESIDENT PERSONALLY. THE PRESIDENT HAS REPORTEDLY
SEEN SOMETHING IN THE MEDIA
ABOUT THE U.S. GIVING AID TO
UKRAINE.
UKRAINE. THAT SPARKS HIM HAVING QUESTIONS
ABOUT THAT AID.
WE DON’T EXACTLY KNOW WHAT HE
MIGHT HAVE SEEN IN THE MEDIA.
I CAN TELL YOU THAT THERE WAS
THIS DEFENSE DEPARTMENT PRESS
RELEASE THE PREVIOUS DAY ON JUNE
18th ANNOUNCING THE U.S.
MILITARY AID FOR UKRAINE.
SO MAYBE HE SAW THAT PRESS
RELEASE OR SAW SOMETHING IN THE
PRESS ABOUT THAT THAT BUGGED
HIM.
HIM. REGARDLESS, THAT’S WHEN THE
PAPER TRAIL STARTS.
THE PRESIDENT EXPRESSING
CONCERNS ABOUT MILITARY AID TO
UKRAINE.
UKRAINE. THEN OUR WITNESS MARK SANDY GOES
ON VACATION FOR A WHILE.
COMES BACK JULY 18th.
AS SOON AS HE’S BACK FROM
VACATION, BIG NEWS IN HIS
OFFICE.
OFFICE. HIS BOSS COMES TO TALK TO HIM,
THIS POLITICAL APPOINTEE MICHAEL
DUFFY COMES TO TALK TO HIM AND
TELLS HIM NOW SINCE HE’S BEEN ON
VACATION IT’S NOW LONGER JUST
THE PRESIDENT ASKING QUESTIONS
ABOUT THE AID TO UKRAINE, THE
PRESIDENT IS NOW ORDERING THAT
AID TO UKRAINE BE STOPPED.
AND AGAIN THERE’S A PAPER TRAIL.
MARK SANDY, QUOTE, WHEN I RETURN
FROM LEAVE JULY 18th I WAS
INFORMED THAT THE PRESIDENT’S
DIRECTION TO HOLD MILITARY
SUPPORT FUNDING FOR UKRAINE.
WHO COMMUNICATED THAT TO YOU?
MR. DUFFY.
MR. DUFFY. HE ALSO EXPRESSED A DESIRE TO
CREATE AN APPORTIONMENT THAT
WOULD IMPLEMENT THE HOLD.
YOU HAVE TO PUT IT IN WRITING,
RIGHT?
RIGHT? THE PRESIDENT CAN’T JUST HOLD
THE AID BY DENT OF A FORMAL
ORDER.
ORDER. HE HAS TO ACTUALLY DIRECT PEOPLE
TO SIGN THINGS AND COMMIT
OFFICIAL ACTS TO HOLD THE AID.
HE DOES THAT THROUGH THIS GUY
MIKE DUFFY.
MIKE DUFFY. THE CAREER FOLKS TELL MIKE DUFFY
IN RESPONSE THIS COULD BE
ILLEGAL, THIS HAS TO GO THROUGH
THE LAWYERS.
THE LAWYERS. SO WHAT HAPPENS NEXT?
WELL, MIKE DUFFY TAKES OVER THIS
JOB HIMSELF.
JOB HIMSELF. SO THE CAREER OFFICIALS WHO ARE
TELLING HIM THIS MIGHT BE
ILLEGAL WON’T BE THE ONES BEING
ORDERED TO DO IT.
QUESTION, DID HAVE YOU ANY
CONVERSATIONS THAT THE FACT THIS
MONEY WAS BEING TAKEN FROM YOU?
ANSWER, CERTAINLY WITH MY STAFF.
AND WHAT WAS THEIR REACTION?
ANSWER, THEY WERE SURPRISED AND
THEY WERE CONCERNED.
IN YOUR CAREER AT OMB OR
OTHERWISE ARE YOU AWARE OF ANY
OTHER POLITICAL APPOINTEE GIVING
GIVEN THE RESPONSIBILITY TO
AUTHORIZE APPORTIONMENTS AS WHAT
HAPPENED HERE WITH MR. DUFFY?
ANSWER, NO, I’M NOT AWARE.
>> QUESTION, AM I CORRECT NEVER
IN OMB HAS THAT PRECISE
SITUATION OCCURRED?
SITUATION OCCURRED? >> MR. SONDY, THAT’S CORRECT.
ALL RIGHT, SO FIRST IT’S THE
PRESIDENT, IT’S THE PRESIDENT
HIMSELF WHO ORDERS THE HOLD ON
MILITARY AID TO UKRAINE.
WHILE IT IS THE PRESIDENT
HIMSELF SIMULTANEOUSLY
HIMSELF SIMULTANEOUSLY PRESSURING UKRAINE THEY NEED TO
GIVE HIM THESE INVESTIGATIONS HE
WANTS FOR 2020.
THE PRESIDENT HIMSELF
QUESTIONING THE AID TO UKRAINE,
ORDERING THE AID TO UKRAINE
THAT’S IN WRITING WE NOW KNOW.
AT LEAST TWO OF THE OFFICIALS
RESIGNED.
RESIGNED. THIRD, MULTIPLE OFFICIALS
OVERTLY EXPRESSED THAT THE HOLD
MIGHT BE ILLEGAL, INCLUDING
TELLING THE GUY THAT -- THE GUY
THEY WERE TELLING TO SIGN THE
PAPERWORK TO IMPLEMENT THE HOLD.
HE’S ONE OF THE PEOPLE WHO TOLD
THEM, HEY, THIS MIGHT BE AN
ILLEGAL THING YOU’RE ASKING ME
TO DO.
TO DO. I THINK WE SHOULD BRING THIS TO
THE LAWYERS.
THE LAWYERS. IN RESPONSE, THAT GUY WAS
REPLACED BY A TRUMP APPOINTEE
WHO HAD SAID THIS WAS THE
PRESIDENT’S WISH, WHO HAD
ORDERED IT DONE, AND WHO HAD
BEEN ADVISED BY THESE CAREER
STAFFERS THIS MIGHT BE AN
ILLEGAL THING.
ILLEGAL THING. HE’S THE ONE WHO TOOK IT OVER
HIMSELF.
HIMSELF. AND THERE’S A PAPER TRAIL FOR
ALL OF THESE PIECES OF THE
PROCESS.
PROCESS. I MEAN, THERE’S A MILLION
INSTANCES LIKE THIS JUST IN THIS
ONE DEPOSITION THAT WAS RELEASED
TONIGHT.
TONIGHT. BUT LOOK AT ONE OF THEM.
THIS IS -- THERE’S A MILLION
INSTANCES IN THIS TESTIMONY
WHERE THEY JUST SPELL OUT THE
PAPER TRAIL AND HOW TO FIND IT,
RIGHT?
RIGHT? NO WONDER THE WHITE HOUSE IS
TOTALLY STONE WALLING THE
IMPEACHMENT INVESTIGATION AND IS
NOT HANDING OVER ANY PAPER.
IT TURNS OUT THERE’S TONS OF
PAPER.
PAPER. IT TURNS OUT THEY REALLY DID DO
ALL OF THIS STUFF BY E-MAIL AND
DISCUSS IT IN REALTIME, IN
RECORDS THAT WERE RETAINED THAT
WERE CURRENTLY BEING HELD BY THE
WHITE HOUSE.
WHITE HOUSE. THIS IS LIKE JACKPOT TESTIMONY
FOR INVESTIGATORS.
FOR INVESTIGATORS. JUST AS AN EXAMPLE LOOK AT THIS
PART OF IT.
QUESTION, SO THIS JULY 12th
E-MAIL FROM MR. BLAIRE AND THE
WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF’S
OFFICE, WHAT DID IT SAY?
ANSWER, TO THE BEST OF MY
RECOLLECTION IT SAID THAT THE
PRESIDENT IS DIRECTING A HOLD ON
MILITARY SUPPORT FUNDING FOR
UKRAINE.
UKRAINE. WHAT ELSE WAS IN THE E-MAIL?
NOTHING THAT I RECALL.
WAS ANY OTHER COUNTRY MENTIONED?
NO, ANY OTHER SECURITY PACKAGE?
NO.
NO. ANY OTHER AID OF ANY SORT?
NOT TO MY RECOLLECTION.
ANY OTHER TOPIC AT ALL IN THIS
E-MAIL?
E-MAIL? NO.
NO. TO WHOM DID MR. BLAIRE SEND THIS
E-MAIL?
E-MAIL? TO MR. DUFFY.
WHO ELSE WAS ON THIS E-MAIL?
I DON’T RECALL ANYBODY ELSE
BEING COPIED.
BEING COPIED. MR. DUFFY THEN FORWARDED THIS
E-MAIL TO YOU?
CORRECT.
CORRECT. TO THE BEST OF YOUR KNOWLEDGE
HAS THAT E-MAIL BEEN RETAINED BY
OMB?
OMB? YES.
YES. WAS THERE ANYTHING ELSE IN THIS
E-MAIL STRING OR WAS IT THAT ONE
COMMUNICATION YOU ALREADY
DESCRIBED?
DESCRIBED? THE ONLY -- THAT WAS THE ONLY
COMMUNICATION.
COMMUNICATION. QUESTION, OKAY.
QUESTION, OKAY. AND WHAT DID YOU DO WITH THAT
E-MAIL?
E-MAIL? ANSWER, I RETAINED IT.
THE E-MAIL SENT FROM THE WHITE
HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF OFFICE
MAKING CLEAR THAT THE DIRECTION
FOR THE HOLD ON THE MILITARY AID
FROM UKRAINE CAME DIRECTLY FROM
THE PRESIDENT.
THE PRESIDENT. OH, YEAH, THEY SENT THAT TO
MIKE, MIKE FORWARDED IT TO ME, I
RETAINED IT.
RETAINED IT. OF COURSE I DID.
THAT COMMUNICATION EXISTS.
IT IS RETAINED.
IT IS THE PROOF IN THIS CASE OF
WHO DID IT.
RIGHT?
RIGHT? AND WHAT THAT SOUNDS LIKE TO
INVESTIGATORS IS A DINNER BELL
RINGING.
RINGING. COME AND GET IT!
THEY DIDN’T JUST DO IT OUT LOUD.