LIVING IN ONE.LIVING IN >>> EVERYBODY LAUGHED.
>> YOU’RE ONE OF US.
>> THEY THOUGHT I WAS JOKING.
YOU DON’T WATCH "CELEBRITY
APPRENTICE."
APPRENTICE." >> MICHAEL MOORE TALKING TO US
AFTER THE ELECTION ABOUT THE
RISE OF DONALD TRUMP.
"THE NEW YORKER" IS OUT WITH A
PIECE PROFILING MARK BURNETT AND
THE ASCENSION OF DONALD TRUMP
THROUGH "THE APPRENTICE" TV
SHOW.
SHOW. FORMER "APPRENTICE" EDITOR TOLD
THE MAGAZINE, QUOTE, MOST OF US
KNEW TRUMP WAS A FAKE.
HE HAD JUST GONE THROUGH I DON’T
KNOW HOW MANY BANKRUPTCIES.
IT WAS LIKE MAKING THE COURT
JESTER THE KING.
THE REPORTER BEHIND THE PIECE,
PATRICK, THERE’S A LINE IN THE
PIECE THAT I WAS FASCINATED BY.
BURNETT AND THE PRODUCERS WALKED
BY TRUMP TOWERS AND WERE WALKING
THROUGH HIS OFFICES AS THEY WERE
PREPARING TO TRY TO TURN THIS
MAN INTO KING.
THEY SAW CHIPPED CHAIRS, OTHER
SIGNS OF A BUSINESS HOLDING ON
FOR DEAR LIFE.
WE SAW CHIPPED FURNITURE, A
CRUMBLING EMPIRE AT EVERY TURN.
OUR JOB WAS TO MAKE IT SEEM
OTHERWISE.
OTHERWISE. >> I LIVED IN NEW YORK IN THE
1990s, I REMEMBER HIM BEING A
PUNCH LINE THAT YOU WOULD READ
ON PAGE 6.
THE POINT MARK BURNETT FOUND
TRUMP, TRUMP WAS AT A LOW POINT
BUT THEY REMOLD HIM AS THIS
TITAN AND THE IDEA THIS IS ONE
OF THE MOST SUCCESSFUL PEOPLE IN
THE WORLD.
THE WORLD. IT WOULD BE A PRIVILEGE FOR
ANYONE TO BE TUTORED BY HIM AS
HIS APPRENTICE.
HIS APPRENTICE. YOU END UP IN THIS KIND OF
STRANGE SITUATION THEY TAKE A
GUY, THE COURT JESTER, AND WE
REMAKE HIM AS THE KING.
>> IT WAS -- THEY THOUGHT IT WAS
VERY CAMPY AND ALMOST DONE LIKE
SO MANY THINGS THAT WE THOUGHT
TRUMP DID WITH A NOD AND A WINK,
BUT THEY WERE SHOCKED THAT SO
MANY AMERICANS BOUGHT INTO TRUMP
AS THE EPITOME OF SUCCESS.
WHAT WAS THE GREAT QUOTE?
DONALD TRUMP IS A POOR
PERSON’S --
PERSON’S -- >> IDEA OF A RICH PERSON.
YEAH, YEAH.
YEAH, YEAH. THIS IS A STRANGE THING.
I TALKED TO PEOPLE WHO WERE
INVOLVED IN "THE APPRENTICE"
OVER THE YEARS AND A LOT OF THEM
SOUNDED THIS NOTE, WE DELIVERED
THE WHOLE THING WITH A WINK.
WE KNEW BECAUSE WE WORKED WITH
DONALD EVERY DAY THAT IT WASN’T
TRUE, HE WASN’T THIS MASTER OF
THE UNIVERSE.
THE UNIVERSE. IT WAS ALL DONE IN THIS CAMPY
WAY.
WAY. IT DOESN’T COME ACROSS THAT WAY
NOW.
NOW. SO THERE’S A LITTLE BIT OF
DISTANCE, PEOPLE INVOLVED SAID
AMERICA TOOK IT SERIOUSLY.
WE WERE JOKING IT WAS NEVER
MEANT TO BE ENTIRELY SINCERE.
I GO BACK AND IT SEEMS THE SHOW
IS SINCERELY PRESENTING DONALD
TRUMP AS SOMETHING WE KNOW HE
WASN’T.
WASN’T. >> THERE’S NO QUESTION THAT THE
SHOW REFURBISHED AND BURNISHED
THE IMAGE HE WAS PRESENTED AS
THIS BUSINESSMAN AND THAT BECAME
THE CENTRAL PART OF HIS CAMPAIGN
TO START.
TO START. IT WAS OBVIOUSLY A CHANGE.
WE HAD THINGS ON IMMIGRATION.
THE PREMISE THIS WAS A
BUSINESSMAN WHO COULD RUN THE
COMPANY AS A CEO.
AND IN YOUR REPORTING IF YOU’VE
SEEN EVEN THEN DURING THE
GENESIS OF THE SHOW, WAS THERE A
SUGGESTION HE WOULD USE AS A
PLATFORM OR SOMETHING HE SIMPLY
NEEDED TO GET BACK ON HIS FEET
AS A BUSINESSMAN?
>> I DON’T THINK ANYBODY KNEW --
THAT ANYBODY HAD ANY INKLING HE
WOULD SERIOUSLY PURSUE THE
PRESIDENCY.
PRESIDENCY. I TALKED WITH PEOPLE INVOLVED IN
THE SHOW, EVEN WHEN HE
ANNOUNCED -- THIS ISN’T IN THE
PIECE BUT SOMETHING I LEARNED
WHEN HE ANNOUNCED HIS CAMPAIGN,
HE SAID THAT HE WAS GOING TO
RUN, EVERYBODY PRIVATELY WHO WAS
INVOLVED ON "THE APPRENTICE"
ROLLED THEIR EYES.
LET’S START CASTING THE NEXT
SEASON BECAUSE WE KNOW DONALD
WILL BE BACK.
THERE WAS A GREAT DEAL OF
SURPRISE AMONG PEOPLE WHO DID
THE SHOW THAT HE ACTUALLY WENT
AHEAD AND RAN AND BECAME
PRESIDENT.
PRESIDENT. >> BOB HAS A QUESTION.
>> "THE APPRENTICE" AND MARK
BURNETT GET A LOT OF BLAME IN
CERTAIN CIRCLES FOR THE RISE OF
DONALD TRUMP BUT HE WAS GOING
BACK TO 1988 TO HIS TRIP TO NEW
HAMPSHIRE WHO WROTE A
BEST-SELLING BIOGRAPHY IN THE
LATE ’80s.
LATE ’80s. HOW MUCH IS THAT BUSINESS
CULTURE OF 1980s NEW YORK AND
THE WAY PEOPLE PLAYED TO HIM
THEN MATTER FOR HIS POLITICAL
CAREER, MAYBE MORE OR AS MUCH AS
"THE APPRENTICE"?
"THE APPRENTICE"? >> HE HAD BEEN A CELEBRITY GOING
BACK TO THE 1980s.
IT’S THE KIND OF CELEBRITY THAT
HE WAS.
HE WAS. I TALKED TO TONY SCHWARZ WHO
WROTE "THE ART OF THE DEAL" AND
HE SAID, LOOK, WE OBVIOUSLY HAD
A GREAT IMPACT IN PUTTING TRUMP
ON THE MAP BUT HE SAID I WAS
NOTHING COMPARED TO MARK
BURNETT.
BURNETT. "THE APPRENTICE" REALLY PUT HIM
INTO AMERICAN HOUSEHOLD AND NOT
AS THE GUY WHO DID THE CAMEO AND
THE MOVIE.
THE MOVIE. NOT AS THE GUY FROM "HOME ALONE"
BUT THIS EXECUTIVE WITH GREAT
JUDGMENT PEOPLE CAME TO AND
CONSULTED ON IMPORTANT MATTERS.
>> WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT IT,
KRISTEN?
KRISTEN? EVERYBODY IS ASSIGNED BLAME.
I TALKED ABOUT MY BROTHER
READING "THE ART OF THE DEAL" IN
THE 1980s AND BECOMING AN
ADMIRER THEN.
ADMIRER THEN. IT SEEMS THERE’S A LONG LIST
THERE.
THERE. DO YOU THINK IT’S THE TV SHOW
LIKE REAGAN IN THE 1950s?
DO YOU THINK IT WAS DONALD
TRUMP’S TV SHOW STARTING IN THE
EARLY 2000s THAT LED HIM TO THE
PRESIDENCY?
PRESIDENCY? >> I THINK IT CERTAINLY PLAYED A
BIG ROLE.
BIG ROLE. IT ALLOWED HIM TO BUILD UPON A
BRAND THAT HAS ALREADY BEEN
MENTIONED.
MENTIONED. IT WAS SOMETHING THAT HE WAS
BUILDING FOR DECADES.
I REMEMBEREARING ABOUT DONALD
TRUMP WHEN I WOULD VISIT MY
GRANDPARENTS IN PALM BEACH IN
THE LATE ’80s.
AS A KID I WAS HEARING ABOUT
THIS GUY.
THIS GUY. AND, LOOK, HIS NAME IS ON
BUILDINGS.
BUILDINGS. OUTSIDE OF JUST "THE APPRENTICE"
HE’S MADE A BIG STRATEGY OF I’M
GOING TO HAVE MY NAME ON EVERY
BUILDING.
BUILDING. IT’S GOING TO BE AN EMPIRE ABOUT
ME AS AN INDIVIDUAL.
AND SO I GUESS MY QUESTION ABOUT
THIS PIECE IS, YOU KNOW, WHEN
YOU ARE INTERVIEWING FOLKS ABOUT
THIS AND THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT
HAVING TO REBURNISH TRUMP’S
IMAGE, WAS THERE A SENSE THAT
YOU ALSO NEEDED -- DONALD TRUMP,
I THINK, ON "THE APPRENTICE" WAS
PORTRAYED AS NOT JUST SMART BUT
HE’S NOT PORTRAYED AS A BAD
INDIVIDUAL.
INDIVIDUAL. HE’S PORTRAYED AS SOMEONE WHO IS
TOUGH BUT HE’S NOT NECESSARILY
PORTRAYED AS SOMEONE WITH A
BUNCH OF DEEP CHARACTER FLAWS.
NOWADAYS WE HAVE SO MANY TV
SHOWS YOU HAVE THE ANTI-HERO,
WHERE YOU HAVE THEIR FLAWS PUT
ON DISPLAY AND IS ACTUALLY PART
OF WHAT MAKES THEM COMPELLING.
DO YOU SENSE THERE WAS ANY SORT
OF ROOM FOR HAVING -- WHEN YOU
WERE INTERVIEWING FOR THIS PIECE
WAS THERE A SENSE THAT FOLKS
DIDN’T WANT TO HAVE ANY OF HIS
FLAWS ON DISPLAY, OR HOW DID
THAT FACTOR IN?
>> TRUMP IS TRUMP.
I THINK MARK BURNETT SAW THAT
AND IS A MAGNETIC PERSONALITY,
NO QUESTION.
NO QUESTION. PART OF WHAT THE SHOW DID PLAY
UP HE WAS A STRAIGHT SHOOTER.
HE CALLED IT LIKE HE SAW IT.
IF HE’S LOYAL TO YOU, HE WILL
TAKE CARE OF YOU.
IF YOU CROSS HIM HE WILL TAKE
REVENGE FOREVER.
REVENGE FOREVER. AND SO ALL OF THAT PLAYED INTO
THE DRAMA OF THE SHOW.
TALKING TO PEOPLE ABOUT THE
EDITING PROCESS, FOR EVERY HOUR
THAT YOU SAW OF "THE APPRENTICE"
ON TV THEY SHOT AN AVERAGE OF
300 HOURS OF FOOTAGE WITH ALL
THESE DIFFERENT CAMERAS
FOLLOWING DIFFERENT CREWS AND
THEN THIS POINT THE EDITORS SIT
DOWN AND THEY PUT TOGETHER A
STORY.
STORY. FOR ME THIS WAS THE FASCINATING
ASPECT OF THIS.
THERE’S A RETROACTIVE NARRATIVE
CONSTRUCTION WHERE TRUMP MAKES A
DECISION, AN IMPULSIVE DECISION.
A LOT OF TIMES HE HADN’T
PREPARED AND WOULDN’T KNOW WHAT
WAS GOING ON BUT WOULD MAKE A
GUT DECISION AND THEN THE
EDITORS HAVE TO COME IN AND
THINK, OH, GEE, HOW CAN WE
RECONSTRUCT WHAT HAPPENED OVER
THE PRIOR WEEK TO MAKE HIS GUT
DECISION MAKE SENSE?
ON SOME LEVEL THIS IS ABOUT
AMERICANS LOOKING AT REALITY
TELEVISION AND MISTAKING IT FOR
REALITY.
REALITY. IT’S A KIND OF ALTERNATIVE FACTS
THAT WE GET.
SIMILARLY IT ECHOES WHAT YOU SEE
IN THE WHITE HOUSE.
>> WE’VE ALL SEEN THE "ACCESS
HOLLYWOOD" TAKES AND FROM THIS
SHOW THAT COULD CONTAIN DAMAGING
INFORMATION FOR DONALD TRUMP.
CAN YOU GIVE US AN UPDATE WHERE
ARE THE TAPES AND DO YOU THINK
THEY’LL EVER SEE THE LIGHT OF
DAY?
DAY? >> BECAUSE SO MUCH FOOTAGE WAS
SHOT, THERE ARE TENS OF
THOUSANDS OF HOURS HELD BY MGM
THAT OWNS MARK BURNETT’S COMPANY
AND THEY ARE NOT GOING TO
RELEASE THOSE TAPES.
THEY HAVE LEGAL REASONS WHY THEY
CANNOT DO SO.
WHERE I CAME OUT THERE’S A GREAT
DEAL OF TRUMP SAYING AWFUL
THINGS ABOUT WOMEN, WHICH HE DID
ON THE SHOW.
IS THERE ANYTHING THAT RISES TO
THE LEVEL OF THE "ACCESS
HOLLYWOOD" TAPE, I DON’T KNOW.
A LOT OF SPECULATION ABOUT HIM
USING THE N-WORD.
HAVING TALKED TO A WHOLE BUNCH
OF PEOPLE, I CAME OUT BELIEVING
THAT TAPE PROBABLY DOESN’T
EXIST, TO PEOPLE WHO WOULD KNOW,
EDITORS WHO WORKED ON THE SHOW,
PEOPLE WHO HATE TRUMP, AND THEY
SAID, LOOK, IF ANYBODY KNEW
ABOUT THAT TAPE, I WOULD KNOW
ABOUT IT.
ABOUT IT. I WOULD LOVE TO KNOW ABOUT THAT
TAPE.
TAPE. I WOULD LEAK THAT TAPE IF I HAD
IT.
IT. IT DOESN’T EXIST.
IF THERE WAS SUCH A TAPE IT
WOULD HAVE SPREAD BY NOW.
IT WOULD HAVE COME OUT.
>> THOSE PEOPLE WHO SPENT TIME
WITH HIM AND MIKA AND I SPENT
TIME WITH HIM OVER A DECADE OFF
AND ON BEHIND CLOSED DOORS.
THERE WERE TIMES HE WOULD SAY
MISOGYNISTIC THINGS.
MISOGYNISTIC THINGS. HE DID NOT SAY RACIALLY
INSENSITIVE THINGS AT LEAST
AROUND US BEHIND CLOSED DOORS.
IF YOU LOOK AT THE WOMEN HE
DATED AND CONTINUED TO DATE IT
GOES AGAINST THAT.
THE PEOPLE THAT HE HUNG OUT
WITH.
WITH. THE FRIENDS THAT HE HAD.
THE ACQUAINTANCES THAT HE HAD IN
ATLANTIC CITY, THAT WOULD
SUGGEST THAT WAS NOT A PART OF
DONALD TRUMP’S PERSONALITY UNTIL
HE DECIDE EDD TO, IN A GROTESQUE
WAY, MAKE IT PART OF HIS PERSONA
PERSONA.
PERSONA. THANK YOU FOR BEING WITH US.
>>> STILL AHEAD, HE WAS
DESCRIBED AS UNDENIABLY PUSHY.
HE CUT CORNERS AND DELIBERATELY
EMPLOYED EXTRAVAGANCES, AN
EXAGGERATION FOR POLLING EFFECT.
WE’RE TALKING ABOUT WINSTON
CHURCHILL.
CHURCHILL. WE’LL TALK TO HISTORIAN AND
AUTHOR ANDREW ROBERTS ABOUT HIS
NEW BIOGRAPHY AS SOME SAY IS THE
GREATEST CHURCHILL SINGLE VOLUME