Kierra and Arrow, I mean, this is a conversation
I have been wanting and needing
because when we talk about the social justice movement,
sometimes we never talk about what it is to be LGBTQ+, but also people of color.
First let's talk about what intersectionality means.
Okay, imagine a Venn diagram, and each part of your identity is a circle.
Now I'm black, I'm queer, I'm trans, I'm non-binary,
and all of those connect, and I'm right at the center.
I can't get rid of the fact that I'm trans.
I can't get rid of the fact that I'm black.
I walk in as all of those, as with all my circles.
One thing that I really want us to start to talk about a little bit more
is how when we're thinking about these movements,
how we're making sure that people don't lose their circles within the movement.
Come on. How do people not lose their circles?
- Let's not lose our circles. - That really-- that's deep. And it's really important.
What should we be doing? Like, you know, that's just-- I really want to know from y'all.
I mean, I think part of it is, you know, at least as a--
as a black woman, right? Like, we are known to be, you know,
- masters of code-switching. Like, we know how to-- - Okay.
Right? We've learned to, like, be able to speak
in the all-white male boardroom, right?
And we know how to, like, throw down at the fish fry
at the Southern church that we grew up at.
And I think part of it is for us,
it's to be unapologetically all of who we are all the time.
- Yes. - You need to be yourself
so everyone else that's watching you
can know that they can be themselves as well.
'Cause I worked in social services before I got in television.
And I would work with LGBTQIA+ indentified youth.
And literally seeing my babies constantly locked up
or accused of engaging in sex work just because they were--
- Loitering. - Loitering. They were congregating.
And it was this thing of, like, they knew, like, okay,
we gotta call Karamo because Karamo can run around the corner
and he has a suit and tie on, going back to that respectability.
- Yeah. Yeah. - And now all of a sudden, it's like the police was like,
"Oh, you got them? Okay, great. We're not gonna take them in for no reason,
lock them up, misgender them, throw them in the wrong--,"
you know, like all these different things.
The systems are broken.
- And I do think representation still matters, right? - Yeah.
Like, when I think about--
so, my ex-wife was a police officer here in D.C.
When she used to walk out into the streets of D.C.
and a whole bunch of, like, black people were being loud,
she didn't assume they were fighting,
she knew black people just are loud in the street.
Oh, yeah, we can be loud sometimes, and it's fine, okay?
Right? And the queer woman, right, you know,
to be first on the scene, if there was violence against a trans woman
or queer folks, right, the way she handled that was gonna look differently
than if a straight cis white dude from Kansas who may not have that experience
was gonna act showing up on the scene.
And the reality is is that, you know,
police or state-sanctioned violence is an LGBTQ issue.
40% of the women sitting in prison right now
identify as bi, lesbian, trans, and queer.
- 40%. That's not a solidarity issue. - Yeah.
That's our people. And the same goes with housing, right?
Like, the majority of youth on the street are queer.
- Yep. - And they are subject to police violence,
and they're getting put into detention centers.
And they're putting-- they're right in that cycle of violence and incarceration.
We, as queer people, unfortunately are carrying the burden
of disenfranchisement and oppression,
health disparities in ways that, you know, are killing us.
- Yeah. Especially queer trans and queer women. - Yeah.
- Heck, yeah. - That's really real. Like, that's who's really carrying
the burden even more. And I think back to all my little babies
when I worked in social services that the people responding
were never-- looked like them.
Like, one of the things going on in cities across the nation
is that fewer and fewer first responders
are from the community that they're responding in.
They're stepping into the street with implicit bias
and a fear of a community that they don't know.
- That's it. That's it. - They're starting there. It doesn't get better from there.
- Yeah. - Yeah. I think you should definitely live
- where you're policing. Like, that just makes sense. - Yeah, yeah.
Like, I should be able to see you at the bodega.
- Live where you're protecting. - Yeah.
Going into your thing about how communities can protect themselves,
I think, like, taking away their language of you being-- live where you police,
no, you're not policing me. We're protecting each other.
- And I think that came from your own language. - Hello. Yes, yes.
- Thank you, thank you. - You know what I mean? Live where you protect.
So I wonder within the social justice movement,
how much-- how much work do straight folks need to be paying attention right now?
- I have a few things to say to that. - Yeah.
I think the first thing, the first thing is--
and this is-- this goes to, like, dating, too.
Sorry, but this is like-- this is personal, y'all.
I am so tired of all of my circles making it seem as if
I'm like, "You have to do me a favor."
- Mm. - I am so ( bleep ) pretty.
You do not have to do me any kinds of favors.
What I need is for you to recognize that me and all my circles exist.
- Yeah. - I don't like the perception that, like,
- straight people help us. - You know, these black straight folks,
you internalize these-- a lot of these messages of privilege.
- Yes. - And, like, you've been hurt, so now you want to hurt me
- and put me down. And it just cannot. - Yes.
- And so it affects-- - All to get closer to whiteness, bro...
- All to get closer to whiteness. Yeah. - ...which, like, why?
Just be-- just, like, don't even-- un-uh. No, we're not gonna do that ( bleep ).
- I think if people said that to them-- - I'm gonna hashtag you
- "all to get closer to whiteness," bro. - Whiteness.
- That's what I was about to say. - I need that t-shirt right now.
If more black folks said that to themselves,
more black and brown people said to themselves,
"Am I-- I'm doing this to get closer to whiteness,"
- I promise you it would stop so many of us... - Bro.
from making choices that we make in the social justice movement.
- Yeah. - Yep.
- Oh, my God. Your homophobia... - That's right. That's real.
your transphobia is your-- you trying to feel better and bigger
and closer to white supremacy and whiteness.
Why do people feel so threatened honoring the humanity of other people?
Like, I just-- I don't get it.
Like, I don't need to be an immigrant standing on the other side of the wall
- to be able to, like, to feel what the right thing to do is. - Yeah. To empathize with them.
My oldest-- well, my middle kid,
I was gonna say "came out," but they don't really talk about it as coming out.
They just talk about it as who they are.
- Shout out to them. - We were talking-- I know, right?
They were talking the other day
and we were making a new Gmail profile,
and they were trying-- you know how they ask you demographic information.
Your race, your gender, and they go,
"Well, I don't want to put male or female. It says other."
And I was like, "Okay." And so they check other,
and then they ask like, "What pronouns?" I was--
and then they go, "They, them." And I was like, "Right."
Right? So I've got this non-binary ten-year-old,
who feels-- didn't feel the need to come out,
but felt comfortable enough to just have a conversation with me
as they were trying to figure out, like,
of these choices and boxes, like, what feels right to me.
And I don't understand why anyone would be threatened by that.
And how anyone wouldn't feel empowered.
- What I will say-- - But a ten-year-old being like,
"I see myself here and I own all of that."
I think it's the most beautiful thing.
I think we're all in agreeance to that.
This entire conversation, we have hit on
so many important things, and I think
we should always leave with like, "What's the solution here?"
You know, social justice is so big, how do we move this forward?
- What do you think, Arrow? - I-- really simple.
I think that a lot of these organizations that are doing such great work
in kind of pushing a lot of the legislation that we need to see.
Like, they're pushing a lot of the protests that we need to see.
I want to see the leadership of these organizations
reflect the populations that are the most marginalized.
I think one thing we can all do regardless of where you are
and what profession you're in, ask yourself the question,
"How are LGBTQ people uniquely impacted?" Right?
What are-- what are the unique challenges and barriers?
Whether you are a cashier at McDonald's
and you are the first person to welcome
a trans Spanish-speaking woman at your counter,
or you're a health care provider.
And then I would say if you are a queer person,
- run for office. Just do it. - Yes. Do it.
Run for office. Go-- like, apply for the biggest, baddest job in your company
or in your organization. Because we need to see you, right, in those places.
Yeah. I think that's the thing for me of, like,
we get to this place where we've convinced ourselves certain narratives.
We start to buy in these narratives.
And for me, what I'm taking away from this conversation
is a solution I'm gonna do in the social justice movement
as I try to dismantle the systemic issues with all of our help and support
is I'm gonna continue just to love myself more...
- Yes. - ...and my personal circles,
- but also loving these types of circles. - Yes.
Karamo, that was gorgeous of your-- to love yourself. That was really good.
- Thank you. I took it from y'all. - It's real.
Like, I'm telling you, I just felt inspired.
Like, it was like loving your circle. I'm telling you, that's staying with me.