Hello and welcome to Stumped, your intercontinental hit of news, features
and debate from the quirky world of cricket. I'm Alison Mitchell in Melbourne. This week I have
been exploring a little bit about where the Ashes actually originate from, and I mean the actual
Ashes - the tiny little urn - and I've been out in country Victoria, up to the old country mansion
where the England captain in 1882, Ivo Bligh was presented with that little terracotta urn
for the very first time. It is a magnificent mansion with lots of original features still,
and you can tell that it comes from a very colonial era. The Clark family,
who owned it, were one of the wealthiest, most powerful families in Victoria at that time.
So there you go, didn't know you're going to start with a history lesson, Jim and Charu, first up.
And it's typical of the old country, they stole that thing because they've never given
it back and it's sitting in a museum at Lord's. Even when Australia wins it, we can't get our
hands on the real deal!... Too right! ...Raving on about something we're all excited about,
because next week, we might actually be talking about a game of cricket instead of
all the sideshows that we've been putting up with. It's a bit of a damp squib up there in
Brisbane - hasn't stopped raining! The boys are out there in their budgie smugglers and the surf
boat more than on the field practising for the series, so hopefully we get some drier weather.
Hi everybody, this is Charu Sharma for All India Radio and listen Jim, don't start me off!
If you think the urn that belongs to Australia is in England, I can't even begin
to talk about everything that belongs to India that's in England! But that's for another day,
the history lesson. I've just come back from the forever beautiful district of Coorg,
where our coffee is being picked - the picking season started - and I drove back just in time
for Stumped - I don't want to miss the show - and of course, just a short while ago in
India, test cricket got a huge fillip because of that magnificent draw against the Kiwis which,
of course, brings a lot of attention to the next Test between New Zealand and India at Mumbai.
So, we wait for that one.
Isn't it fantastic when a drawn Test match brings so much excitement and gets so much attention?
That is what Test cricket is all about, isn't it?
We are joined by our special guest this week. It is a former Pakistan captain
who is currently serving as chair of the Pakistan Cricket Board. Now, Ramiz Raja won the World Cup in 1992 with Pakistan and played throughout
the 80s and 90s. Since retiring from the game, he became a commentator travelling the world and he's
commentated with us, indeed. Jim, you and I were with him not too long ago when Pakistan toured
Australia. So, we extend a very warm welcome to Stumped to Ramiz Raja. Thank you. Thank you so
much, Ali. And hello, Charu. And James. So nice to be in the company of very, very important people.
And a lady. I don't know about that. I was going to say Ramiz, it was only a couple
of years ago that Jim and I were commentating with you in Australia on the Pakistan series.
Was it such a bad experience that you thought I can't commentate with these people anymore,
I have to go and be chair of the Pakistan Cricket Board? So, what happened was that, you know,
the Prime Minister was obviously a childhood hero - Mr Imran Khan. This was about six months back,
and so he invited us over for a dinner and we got talking about the game, you know, after dinner
and he said: "Look, you know, I need a new name for the chair of the PCB," and I was giving him
10 names, you know, after every 10 minutes, and then this process continued for about a good three
months, so I was trying to avoid the accident. "That gentleman fits the bill," and he says: "No, his
body language..." you know, he was assessing every individual as if he was captain of a cricket team.
So, you know: "He's temperamentally not strong, you know, his body language is not great. He will sit
on the fence, he won't take decisions." So suddenly popped up the question and I just couldn't refuse.
And so later on when I went for an official meeting, I said, you know, "Thank you for giving me
the job, but you realise that there is no money as being the chairman of the Cricket Board." He said:
"What? There's no money? So, how will you manage that?" I said: "I don't know.
"You asked me to do it so I'm doing it for free." So interestingly, last week during the ICC meetings
all the chairmen of the board took me out and paid for my bill because they said: "You
can't afford anything, mate!" So, you know, the bill.... I think there's a few other countries
where that's not paid either so perhaps you'll need to do a round and buy each other dinner!
Okay, it's been an eventful first few months in the job for you, hasn't it? And if I just
take you back to only a few months ago, when New Zealand and then England pulled out of their tours
of Pakistan. Have you learned any more about the circumstances since then?
How do you feel about that now? I took office on the 13th. New Zealand was supposed to
play the first game on the 14th. And so I go to Islamabad, get ready to go in the morning and
see how things pan out. So, we get a call saying that New Zealand are going back home. I said:
"What?" Says: "Yeah, there's been a threat." We tried to reason with them, and obviously it didn't work,
and they pulled out and then England were spooked. I was told by the chairman, the ex-chairman, that:
"We're very sorry, but you know, it's not possible for the players to come,
because after seeing New Zealand pull out, the players don't feel comfortable."
So, I mean, I was hit by a massive avalanche. I actually felt being a cricketer, that, you know,
there wasn't any cricketing reasons and there wasn't any security reason. And that what we had
delivered as far as England was concerned in Covid terms we sent our team, so I used that
phrase that, you know: "We were used and binned." And as part of the ICC cricket fraternity,
the cricket fraternity should have come to our help. So, I wrote a very emotional letter to the
chairman of the ICC as well, and I said: "Well, you know, you've got to be emotionally invested in a
country's progress. And in countries cricket, and you cannot divorce yourself from such issues."
So it was quite messy, but in the end I thought both New Zealand and England were very gracious,
the way they came back. It must not have been easy for the ECB to come and pay a visit. That
was Tom Harrison, wasn't it? The CEO. Yes. So he came and he told me about the circumstances,
and he apologised which was extremely gracious of England really to do that.
Now we have a rescheduled New Zealand tour as well, so they're playing extra tour matches,
we've got England back playing in Pakistan. This is going to be our heavyweight summer
or winter, because we now look after West Indies in 10 days time, and then we have the PSL.
Then we have Australia playing three Test matches, and three one-dayers. Then in the wintertime,
we have an England, and then New Zealand and the World Cup. So, a lot to look forward to.
I know at the time, you made a fairly sort of pointed comment about the Western bloc
mentality. Do you still worry about that going forwards? Particularly with Australia due to tour
Pakistan, do you believe that will go ahead? About the bloc, I just feel that our
situation is scrutinised more when it comes to touring, especially Pakistan, I'm not too sure
about India, or Sri Lanka. We've been scrutinised a lot more than other cricketing nations.
We've done our best really to convince the world that it was a horrific incident that took place
about 10-15 years back or whenever it was, and so we have learned from that experience and,
Pakistan has a rich history, legacy. You saw what happened during this T20 World Cup where
the entire nation was behind Pakistan as a sport. Cricket, as you know, in our part of the world,
has got the blessings of zillions of fans. So I just feel that, you've got to invest just a
little bit more in our pains in what we have done really to make sure that the product is
in safe hands and that it's a wonderful country to travel to. Speaking of the T20 World Cup,
on a happy note, that was an incredible run that the team had. What do you think they're
gonna need to just go that one step further to get over the line and win another trophy?
I had a fabulous debrief by Matthew Hayden just the other day, and
he praised Pakistan for what they produced. And he was impressed by the spirituality as well,
but one thing that he mentions is that this team crumbles just a little bit under pressure
in the fielding department. I think that is what we need to do. I think
some nations have worked extremely hard on getting their teams fit, and Pakistan is about six months
away from getting the target. I think this was a great fillip. This really was what we needed
because I told Babar Azam also that you need to engage fans and you've got to create
expectations. It's in our DNA to be to be aggressive, to be entertaining,
and to be different. So, let's not forget that that's in our DNA. And I'm a firm believer that,
you see right now we don't have a bowling coach, we don't have a batting coach, and I'm quite
fine with that. I'd rather put all my energy and effort at the second or the third tier.
I am from that old school of thought, where I feel that the captain should be the leader, and he
should be given some help. But the team shouldn't be spoiled, and that the dressing room should look
like a bazar where there are 30 coaches just waiting for you to pounce on you, if you're failing.
I'm quite happy to just let them be. Just moving on to the potential women's Pakistan
Super League in the near future, this would be wonderful as you'd be the first country in Asia,
to have a women's T20 league. Are there any plans to bring this into fruition in the near future?
100%, yes. I've asked my team to prepare a paper. What is happening is that we don't have a pathway
for women's cricket. So, you have these colleges and schools where they play cricket, but it's just
not been happening regularly. So, we try to create a pathway of these young women coming through,
and then also to give them importance. Right now, if you come to the PCB headquarters, outdoors
there are massive posters of the women's team. It's such an important aspect of our game and I
came to know more about the value of the women when Pakistan played superbly during this T20
World Cup because it was 50/50. There were little girls chanting for the Pakistan team to do well,
so I just want to milk that feelgood factor that this team has created and create properties for
Pakistan also. Right now, we are far too dependent on ICC funding, and I want to move away from that
model. And I can only do that if I create new properties. What is happening is that we'll be
the first team, I'm sure, to have an age cricket PSL. So it's going to be PSL Jr,
which will be launched in October. The under 19's of Australia and England will be playing in
Pakistan. I'd be quite happy giving a dugout to somebody like Ricky Ponting or a Viv Richards so
let them let them be in company of the greats and let them earn money and let them feel confident,
because what is happening right now in Pakistan age cricket is that there is talent,
but there is this lack of confidence. Yes, well get Shaheen to go up and talk to them all.
He's going sensationally and boy has he got some attitude. Wow. Absolutely. So, you know,
this is quite crazy, actually. Babar Azam was here with the chief selector just
before going to the World Cup, and I said: "What are your plans against India?" He says:
"I've got plans. We employ Cric Base, you know, they do the matchups and all that kind of stuff."
I said: "I understand, but you know, India may use Cric Base also. So, what happens,
they'll have a ploy set up against you." So, that becomes nothing for us. So, I said:
"I can tell you right now, how to get rid of Rohit Sharma." He says: "Tell me." I said:
"You get Shaheen Afridi bowling at 100 miles an hour, get a man a short leg and a 45.
Bowl that inswinging yorker, full pitched, 100 miles an hour. Don't give him a single.
Don't give him a single, keep him on strike until you get him out because that ball is going to
swing for an over or two and not more than that in UAE." And the Cric Base had it like that also, so he
says: "So KL Raul inswing, good length delivery, Rohit Sharma full-pitched in-swing that can do the
job. And then KL Rahul may struggle against left arm angle also." I mean it's quite superb how these
matchups are done. So, you know, even though I come from old school of thought, but you know,
these some of these technologies stuff is quite amazing, actually. It's much easier for the
captain also to, to have a plan A and plan B and Plan C, so they know exactly at what time
a Haris Rauf spell should begin. And you know, and how to bowl to a certain individual. It's quite
amazing stuff, but at the end of the day, it's that gut feeling also, and I am a big believer of
gut feeling. I mean, this cricket is why because we all have gut feeling. Thank God for that.
Great to see you here and see you again. We want to be a part of the ICC Working Group appointed
by the game's governing body to review the status of cricket in Afghanistan. You've been mentioning how
emotional this part of the world is, so in light of the recent political situation in that country,
what can you tell us about the developments about your working group in the ICC?
We had a meeting, but it was decided, in unison that Afghanistan cricket talent shouldn't be hurt
at all, because they've got some fabulous players. All of their funding will continue, albeit,
you know, there'll be more eyes watching them how they spend that money. Like everybody else,
I think we were giving them time. And I think, let's not jump the gun. You know, they're in a
difficult situation, so there's this cultural war, and then there's the cricketing thing.
And then you know, who is in charge? How long will the world come to realise that things are working
in the right direction? And I think wait and watch is the policy of the world and wait and
watch is the policy right now the ICC as well. It's a busy time for you Ramiz, that is for sure.
Best of luck with the role going forwards. I'm sure we'll see you on some different shores
again very soon. And yeah, let's hope that teams do
get back out touring Pakistan, but thanks so much. I really appreciate your
time on Stumped. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. Cheers Charu, James, Alison, thanks.
Well, that's all we've got time for here on Stumped on All India Radio. Don't forget you
can follow us on Twitter. We're @BBCWSSport and use #BBCStumped. And you can find us on YouTube
as well - go to BBC World Service YouTube. And my thanks to Charu Sharma, Jim Maxwell,
and of course, to you all for listening. Make sure you join us again next week. Until then, bye bye.