>>> IT WAS ONE OF THE MOST NOTORIOUS UNSOLVED MURDERS IN
THE AREA: THE CASE OF LISA ZIEGERT, A 24-YEAR-OLD TEACHER'S
ASSISTANT KIDNAPPED AND BRUTALLY MURDERED IN AGAWAM IN 1992.
TWO YEARS AGO, LAW ENFORCEMENT CHARGED GARY SCHARA WITH THE
FIRST-DEGREE MURDER OF LISA.
LAST MONTH, IN WHAT'S CONSIDERED A RARE MOVE, SCHARA, WAIVED HIS
RIGHT TO A TRIAL AND PLEADED GUILTY.
CAROLEE MCGRATH SPOKE WITH LISA'S MOTHER, DEE ZIEGERT,
ABOUT HER STEADFAST EFFORT TO GET JUSTICE FOR HER DAUGHTER.
>> WE WERE VERY PLEASED, EXCITED ABOUT THE POSSIBILITY THAT THIS
WOULD HAPPEN AND WE WOULDN'T HAVE TO GO THROUGH THE TRIAL, A
WHOLE LONG THREE WEEKS OR HOWEVER LONG IT WOULD TAKEA
TRIAL.
BUT IN THE PROCESS OF COURSE IT WAS ANTICIPATION AND JUST NERVES
BECAUSE YOU DIDN'T KNOW, WE HEARD THIS COULD HAPPEN, IT
WOULD HAPPEN IF HE CONTINUED TO AGREE TO IT.
HE COULD HAVE CHANGED HIS MIND AT THE VERY LAST SECOND.
>> BECAUSE IT'S IN USUAL, HE ABSOLUTE LIE COULD HAVE CHANGED
HIS MIND.
>> A PLEA TO FIRST DEGREE MURDER WITHOUT CHANCE OF PAROLE IS
ALMOST UNHEARD OF.
IT'S LIKE THREE OR FOUR NOW.
IN RECENT HISTORY OF ANY KIND.
SIMPLY BECAUSE WHEN YOU PLEAD GUILTY TO FIRST DEGREE MURDER,
THERE IS NO WIGGLE ROOM IN THE SENTENCE, THE SENTENCE IS LIFE
WITHOUT PAROLE.
AND WHEN YOU PLEAD, YOU GIVE UP THE CHANCE FOR THAT AUTOMATIC
PLEA, AUTOMATICALLY EVERYONE WHO IS CONVICTED OF MURDER, FIRST
DEGREE MURDER I THINK SECOND, TOO, OF COURSE, YOU HAVE A RIGHT
TO A PLEA.
AND HE HAS NONE.
>> HE GAVE THAT UP.
>> HE DID.
>> SO LOOKING AT HOW THAT PROCESS CHANGED, HOW DID THAT
AFFECT YOU AND YOUR HUSBAND AS FAR AS PREPARING FOR A POSSIBLE
TRIAL AND ALL THE THINGS THAT WOULD GO INTO THAT?
>> WELL, I GUESS IT GAVE US A SENSE OF URGENCY BECAUSE WE
WOULD STILL BE ABLE TO GIVE IMPACT STATEMENTS.
AND IT GAVE A SENSE OF, THIS WILL BE GREAT, IF IT HAPPENS.
THIS IS 27 AND A HALF YEARS INTO THIS.
WE HAVE MANY, MANY THINGS COME UP AND HAVE THEM SAY, THIS LOOKS
GOOD, AND GOD BLESS THEM, THEY DID THEIR DARNDEST THEY WORKED
SO HARD.
BUT WE'VE HAD MANY TIMES WHERE WE GET ALL SET FOR SOMETHING AND
THEN THE OTHER SHOE WOULD DROP AND YOU WOULD NOT GET TO IT.
I THINK THAT WE WERE CAUTIOUSLY OPTIMISTIC, I GUESS THAT'S WHAT
YOU WOULD SAY THAT IT WAS -- BUT WE WERE PREPARED, THAT WE WERE
GOING TO GO TO COURT AND HE WAS GOING TO ADMIT HIS GUILTY AND WE
WERE GOING TO HAVE JUSTICE FOR LISA.
>> COULD YOU POSSIBLY EVEN DESCRIBE JUST ALL THE DIFFERENT
PROCESSES YOU HAD TO GO THROUGH IN ADDITION TO YOUR OWN GRIEF
BUT TALKING WITH LAW ENFORCEMENT, COURT DATES AND
DISTRICT ATTORNEYS AND ALL THESE THINGS OVER THE YEARS, COULD YOU
POSSIBLY EVEN GIVE PEOPLE A GLIMPSE INTO WHAT THIS HAS BEEN
IN YOUR LIFE?
>> WOW.
IF I COULD FAST FORWARD THROUGH THE NORMAL EVERY DAY LIVING TO
THE TIME WHEN HE WAS CAPTURED OUR FIRST TIME IN COURT SEEING
HIM, THAT OF COURSE WAS LIKE GETTING HIT IN THE CHEST WITH A
BIG BRICK, BECAUSE IT'S LIKE YOU BREATHE IN AND THEN YOU CAN'T
BREATHE OUT.
BECAUSE -- IT'S LIKE YOU WANT TO SEE HIM AND YOU DON'T WANT TO
SEE HIM.
YOU WANT TO FACE BUT YOU DON'T WANT TO HAVE THAT FACE IN YOUR
MIND.
IT'S A PROCESS AND IT WAS MADE THE BEST THAT IT COULD BE FOR
US.
BUT IT'S STILL ROLLER COASTER OF EMOTIONS I THINK THAT IS THE
BEST WAY TO PUT IT.
IT'S A ROLLER COASTER OF EMOTIONS.
>> WHEN YOU PREPARED THAT IMPACT STATEMENT, OBVIOUSLY THAT WAS
INCREDIBLY DIFFICULT AND YOU HAD YEARS IN THE MAKING OF PROBABLY
THINKING OF HOW YOU WERE GOING TO PHRASE YOUR FEELINGS, TELL US
A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THAT.
>> WELL, YES, I HAD THOUGHT ABOUT IT OVER THE YEARS, FOR
SURE.
BUT AS YOU CAN WELL IMAGINE, IT CHANGED OVER THE YEARS.
BECAUSE IN THE BEGINNING YOUR EMOTIONS ARE ONE WAY AND YOU'VE
HAD SAY FIVE YEARS, FIVE YEARS OF LIFE WITHOUT LISA.
AND SO IT'S MORE -- IT'S A SHORTER PIECE OF TIME, IT'S A
DIFFERENT -- YOU'RE LOOKING AT IT A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENTLY.
WHEN IT GETS TO BE 25 YEARS, THERE'S SO MUCH.
I DON'T WANT TO ACT OR I DON'T WANT TO SAY THINGS THAT MAY
PEOPLE LOOK -- I'M LOOKING FOR PITY, NOT.
NOT.
I'M LOOKING FOR JUSTICE.
I'M LOOKING FOR YOU TO UNDERSTAND WHO LISA WAS.
WHO LISA IS TO US AND ALWAYS WILL BE TO US.
AND WHAT WE MISS.
>> IT'S HEARTBREAKING FOR PEOPLE TO EVEN HEAR THAT YOU WOULD EVEN
THINK THAT PEOPLE WOULD THINK THAT YOU'RE LOOKING FOR PITY
WHEN YOU'RE GIVING THAT STATEMENT.
YOU HAD 27 YEARS WITHOUT HER, THERE ARE ALL THESE DREAMS THAT
YOU HAVE AS A MOM OF WHAT YOUR DAUGHTER IS GOING TO DO.
AND ACCOMPLISH.
SO FOR PEOPLE TO HEAR YOU EVEN SAY THAT I'M NOT LOOKING FOR
PITY, BUT THAT'S WHAT YOU'VE LIVED WITH ALL OF THESE YEARS,
RIGHT?
>> YES.
AS I SAID IT'S OUR REALITY.
THE ONLY WAY YOU GET THROUGH SOMETHING LIKE THIS, YOU HAVE TO
FACE THAT REALITY.
YOU HAVE TO FACE IT. AND THEN YOU HAVE TO SAY, LISA
WOULD KICK ME IN THE BUTT IF I DIDN'T KEEP ONGOING.
AND SHE WOULD HAVE.
SOMETIMES I ACTUALLY WOULD FEEL THAT, YOU KNOW, FEEL LIKE,O,
PITY PARTY IS OVER, LET'S GO.
SO IT IS OUR REALITY AND WE LIVE IT AND WE LIVE IT FOR OUR
CHILDREN, OUR GRANDCHILDREN, FOR THE PEOPLE AROUND US AND FOR
LISA.
BECAUSE SHE LIVES ON IN US AND SHE'S MEANT SO MUCH TO SO MANY
PEOPLE EVEN SINCE SHE'S GONE.
SO I GUESS THAT'S WHY I DON'T WANT PITY BECAUSE I DO STILL
HAVE HER IN MY HEART AND SHE DOES COME AND SHE DOES AFFECT A
LOT OF THINGS.
>> TELL US A LITTLE BIT ABOUT LISA.
>> LISA, OUR TINY GIRL.
SHE'S THE ONLY ONE WHO WAS SHORTER THAN ME.
EVEN MY GRANDDAUGHTER IS AS TALL AS ME NOW.
SHE WAS A WONDERFUL DAUGHTER, SIBLING, SISTER, SWEETHEART AND
A FRIEND.
>> WHEN YOU LOOK AT THERE'S SOME NEW LEGISLATION THAT'S BEING
PROPOSED THAT WOULD CHANGE THE RULES FOR THOSE CONVICTED OF
FIRST DEGREE MURDER, THAT WOULD GIVE THEM A CHANCE TO HAVE
PAROLE AFTER 25 YEARS.
HOW DO YOU RESPOND TO THAT?
>> I DON'T THINK IT'S RIGHT.
I THINK THAT IF THERE'S A VIOLENT CRIME AND A PERSON'S
LIFE HAS BEEN LOST, PARTICULARLY IF IT'S AN ATROCIOUS MURDER OF
THAT KIND, NO, NO, I DON'T AGREE WITH THAT AT ALL.
AND I THINK IF THEY NEED TO MAKE ROOM THAT THEY FEEL THEY HAVE
TOO MANY PEOPLE INCARCERATED, LOOK FOR THE NONVIOLENT CRIMES.
THAT'S WHERE TO LET THESE PEOPLE GO MAKE ANOTHER LIFE.
THESE PEOPLE IT'S NOT RIGHT FOR THE VICTIMS, IT'S NOT RIGHT FOR
THE VICTIMS.
>> SO PEOPLE MIGHT SAY OKAY THIS CHAPTER IS OVER BUT I KNOW
OBVIOUSLY, THIS IS NEVER OVER FOR YOU.
AND YOUR FAMILY.
AND I KNOW THAT YOU'VE TALKED TO US ABOUT THAT BEFORE, THIS IS
EVERY DAY.
>> IT IS EVERY DAY.
BUT WE ARE GRATEFUL TO ALL THOSE WHO WORK SO HARD AND NEVER GAVE
UP OVERALL THOSE YEARS, WE'RE GRATEFUL LISA HAS HER JUSTICE,
SHE HAS HER JUSTICE.
AND THAT WAS SO IMPORTANT TO US.
BUT THEN THAT COMES REALITY THAT WE STILL HAVE THE SENTENCE OF
LIVING WITHOUT HER.
FOR THE REST OF OUR LIVES.
BUT AT LEAST WE COULD CLOSE THAT PART OF IT.
GIVE HER TRUE REST IN THAT WAY THAT SHE HAS HER JUSTICE.