As part of the orchestrated plan, we allege that 16 Michigan
residents met covertly in the basement of Michigan GOP Headquarters.
And knowingly and of their own volition, signed their names to multiple
certificates stating that they were the duly elected and qualified electors.
For President and Vice President of the United States of America for
the State of Michigan, that was a lie.
They weren't the duly elected and qualified electors and
each of the defendants knew it.
>> Speaker 2: Michigan State Attorney General Dana Nestle has announced that 16
fake electors in Michigan who signed certificates falsely claiming that
Donald Trump won the state of Michigan in 2020 have now been charged for
their involvement in that fake elector scheme.
Now, Biden, of course, won that state, and
he won that state pretty handily by 150,000 votes.
Now, the fake elector signed certificates wrongly
claiming that then President Donald Trump had actually won the state,
when of course, that was not true.
And they were ready to cast their electoral votes for
Trump even though Biden won that state.
Now, Nestle called the alleged plan a desperate effort to undermine democracy.
And unfortunately,
we find that several of the accused are active in Republican politics.
So the individuals include Michigan Republican National Committee
woman Kathy Burden.
You also have former co chair of the Michigan Republican Party,
Michael Maddock.
In fact, CNN had reported in early 2021 that Maddok,
the co chair of the Michigan Republican Party, was heard on an audio recording at
a public event saying, quote, we fought to seat the electors.
The Trump campaign asked us to do that.
So that will probably be relevant in the case against Donald Trump.
The Special Counsel Jack Smith's case against Donald Trump.
Now, let's get to some more details about the 16 individuals who are charged
with multiple felonies.
The counts include one count of conspiracy to commit forgery, two counts of forgery,
one count of conspiracy to commit uttering and publishing, and one count of
uttering and publishing, all of which carry a maximum of 14 years in prison.
I have to say, the charge of uttering and publishing sounds hilarious to me,
even though this is a very serious matter nonetheless, Jenk,
what are your thoughts about all this?
>> Speaker 3: First of all, I think uttering is a real problem, okay?
>> Speaker 2: We utter a lot here [LAUGH].
>> Speaker 3: We're huge utterers, okay?
So guys, this is a super important story because if she succeeds, which she,
I think has an excellent chance of succeeding, it's gonna set a precedent.
And the precedent is very important.
So if Donald Trump or someone like him wins the election again and
they try a stunt like this when they lose, then they go and say,
okay, now we need a bunch of fake electors cuz we lost.
And so then we're gonna have the Vice President this time.
We're going to intimidate him enough that he pretends that he has the authority to
overturn the whole election.
So everybody signed the papers and these guys are in jail,
then all of a sudden electors in Arizona, Wisconsin, Michigan, etc.
Be like, well, the last guys who signed the papers that were fake are sitting in
maximum security for six years, 12 years, 20 years, exactly, whatever it is.
So they're gonna be a little bit more hesitant to sign fake papers.
And so here I love this in every way,
I think this is one of the most important cases in all of the history of MAGA.
>> Speaker 2: I totally agree, because, look,
I get that there is this partisan component to it and
some people are there's a little bit of a ha, but that's not what I care about here.
What I care about here is whether this will prevent
attempts to steal elections in the future.
It is important to maintain our democratic process.
And if this fake elector scheme had actually gone through,
if it had worked, and Jenk actually did a really great job explaining
how it could have worked easily, that would have been a disaster.
And so if there aren't consequences moving forward to ensure that they don't try it
again, they're gonna try it again, and it could work next time.
>> 100%, so the reason I say it's a slam dunk is because
their signatures are on piece of paper that are fraudulent.
So what are they gonna do?
I don't know how they're gonna get out of it, there's no question the papers
are fraudulent and there's no question they sign them.
So which leads back to the Jack Smith case.
So if these guys think that they're about to go to prison for a long time,
which is definitely possible, and actually even likely, a lot of them might flip.
And Jack Smith has already flipped fake electors from other states.
He's the special prosecutor going after Trump and
is apparently going to indict him in a couple of days.
So now that piles up into Trump's case
because then all of a sudden we've got all of these guys going.
Well, he told me to sign this fake document saying that he's the President
when I knew he hadn't won and
we all knew he hadn't won well then Trump could be in a lot of trouble.
But even if they don't get Trump on it, sending these fake electors to
prison would make a giant difference in terms of deterrence.
But Nestle made a couple other great points that I wanted to share with you
guys, she said to Anna's point about, hey, is this political?
She said, this is the most clear case of forgery and
handing in fake documents to a government that I've ever had.
If I didn't prosecute it, it would be political.
It would be a political choice not to prosecute an obvious crime.
And she said, so I didn't really have a choice about prosecuting it or not,
if I didn't, I would be saying some people have special privileges.
If they're officials, they're government officials, they're politicians,
they get special privileges and they can break the law, I can't do that.
I had to prosecute.
And so we're going forward with the case, I think she's got a great case and
I think that those guys are in real trouble and I'm thrilled about it.
Do not try to do a coup in America.
These are the real architects of the coup, not the rioters.
>> Speaker 2: In a second, I'm gonna ask you to explain how the fake electorate
scheme could have very easily worked.
Before I do, though, I just wanna note that each one of those charges carries
a potential 14 years in prison.
So when Jenk says it's likely that some of them are gonna spend some time behind
bars, I agree with that.
And remember, these aren't former presidents and
these aren't high level former political operatives.
These are local Republican politicians who thought they could be cute and
attempt to steal an election from an individual, Joe Biden, who won that state.
But Jenk, so I didn't really believe the fake elector scheme could have worked
until you explained to me fairly recently how easily it could have worked.
So I think it's important to retell that so the audience understands.
>> Speaker 3: Okay, so as quickly as I can so
the idea was tell Mike Pence not to certify the election.
Now the Vice President doesn't have a choice.
Republicans, you know that cuz otherwise you'd have to say,
kamala Harris has the choice to not certify the election even if Biden loses
and just hand it over to Biden.
That's crazy talk, but that's what they wanted to do cuz this is a coup.
So they said, Pence, go pretend that you have the authority
to not certify the election with the real electors.
Then we're gonna say, well, I guess since we couldn't certify,
we're gonna bring it back to the state legislatures.
But the state legislatures are heavily gerrymandered and very Republican,
even in purple states, even in these swing states.
And those state legislatures got these fake electors ready and
the fake electors signed papers saying, we are the real electors,
even though they knew they weren't, and that's why they're being prosecuted now.
If they had done that, you might still are.
I mean, those are forgeries, they're not the real electors.
But they come back and say, well, now we have a constitutional question,
how are we going to resolve it?
The minute you create that question, the method by which you resolve it is you go
to the House of Representatives and they tell you who the President is gonna be.
But they don't vote based on the number of people in the House.
They vote state by state.
And Republicans have more states than Democrats do in the House,
even under the old term of Congress.
So that way the Republicans, the state legislatures, and
then in the House just could say Trump won.
There was a dispute, there was Mules, there was Krakens,
there was a dispute, and we won.
Okay, and that way that yes, that would have worked, and
they would have stolen the election, and that would have been a coup.
That is why prosecuting these guys is monumentally important as a precedent.
And one last thing, this is where Trump's lack of strategy and
lack of intelligence makes a giant difference.
And his greed, his runaway greed, makes a giant difference.
If I was Trump, I would have been paying for these guys defense to no end.
He raised several hundred million dollars for a legal defense fund.
If those guys are pressured, they're gonna turn on you.
If those guys are convicted, you can't pull another coup, right?
But he's so greedy and so dumb, he hasn't helped them at all.
And MAGA doesn't know to help them because all they care about is the cult of Trump.
They're like Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump.
Protect Trump, but if these guys go under, we save democracy anyway.
So, look, I can say it publicly Trump's never gonna figure it out, and
he's never gonna give them any money.
And MAGA is never going to do a big defense of them cuz like Anna said,
they're not at the very top, they're not the elites.
So if you're not at the elites, look at the rioters, they're all going to jail.
>> Speaker 2: That's right.
>> Speaker 3: Right? If you're not the, you're screwed.
And if you listen to a monster like Donald Trump, he's gonna get you in jail, and
he's not gonna ever help you.
So I'm super happy that you guys made that monumental mistake.
And now I hope you're gonna suffer the consequences for
trying to undermine our democracy.