RIGHT NOW.
OUR TOP STORY THIS HALF AN HOUR,
UNREST IN SYRIA.
PRESIDENT TRUMP AUTHORIZING
SANCTIONS AND HEIGHTENED STEEL
TARIFFS ON TURKEY.
THE ADMINISTRATION THREATENING
MORE IF THE COUNTRY CONTINUES
MILITARY OPERATIONS IN NORTHERN
SYRIA.
VICE PRESIDENT MIKE PENCE
WEIGHED IN ON THIS YESTERDAY AT
THE WHITE HOUSE.
>> THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
SIMPLY IS NOT GOING TO TOLERATE
TURKEY'S INVASION OF SYRIA ANY
FURTHER, AND WE'RE CALLING ON
SYRIA TO STAND DOWN, TO END THE
VIOLENCE AND COME TO THE
NEGOTIATING TABLE.
MARIA: JOINING ME IS KENTUCKY
SENATOR, AUTHOR OF "THE CASE
AGAINST SOCIALISM" RAND PAUL.
GREAT TO HAVE YOU THIS MORNING.
THANKS FOR JOINING US.
>> GOOD MORNING, MARIA.
MARIA: BEFORE WE GET TO THE
TOPIC OF SOCIALISM, I KNOW THAT
YOU HAVE BECOME A VERY IMPORTANT
SOURCE FOR PRESIDENT TRUMP AND
HE LISTENS TO YOU AND CERTAINLY
IS GRATEFUL FOR YOUR ADVICE.
I WANT TO GET YOUR TAKE ON
TURKEY INVADING SYRIA.
>> YOU KNOW, I THINK THE REAL
IRONY HERE IS THAT OUR
RELOCATING OUR TROOPS, TURKEY'S
INCURSION ACTUALLY MAY ALLOW AN
ALLIANCE TO DEVELOP BETWEEN THE
KURDS AND ASSAD WHICH MAY ALLOW
THE KURDS TO HAVE SOME SORT OF
AUTONOMOUS REGION WITHIN SYRIA.
IT HAPPENED IN IRAQ THAT WAY.
THE IRAQI KURDS HAVE A
SEMI-AUTONOMOUS REGION BECAUSE
THEY ARE NO LONGER A THREAT TO
TURKEY.
IF ASSAD COULD ASSURE TURKEY
THAT THE KURDS IN THAT REGION
WERE NO LONGER A THREAT TO BE
INVADING INTO TURKEY, I THINK
THERE COULD END UP DEVELOPING A
SEMI-AUTONOMOUS REGION UNDER
SYRIAN SOVEREIGNTY BUT
ULTIMATELY IT MEANS THE SYRIANS
NEED TO BE PART OF THE
DISCUSSION.
IN THE PAST, WHAT HAS HAPPENED
IS THE NEO-CONS AND THE WAR
CAUCUS HAS REALLY WANTED TO
TOPPLE ASSAD AND HAVEN'T WANTED
TO TALK TO ASSAD.
ASSAD NOW HAS ESSENTIALLY WON
THE WAR, FOR BETTER OR WORSE,
HE'S STAYING, SO ASSAD NEEDS TO
BE PART OF THE PEACE DEAL.
I'M GLAD THE VICE PRESIDENT IS
TALKING ABOUT TALKING TO THE
SYRIAN REGIME BECAUSE IF YOU
DON'T TALK TO THEM, THEY WILL
NEVER BE PEACE.
MARIA: IS THIS IN THE U.S.
NATIONAL INTEREST TO PULL OUT OF
SYRIA?
>> WHAT'S NOT IN OUR NATIONAL
INTEREST, TO BE THERE, PERIOD.
THE PRESIDENT WAS VERY CLEAR THE
PURPOSE WAS TO DEFEAT ISIS, NOT
TO CREATE A NATION OUT OF SYRIA.
SYRIA IS A MESS AND REALLY,
SYRIA IS MORE OF A MESS BECAUSE
OF ALL THE OUTSIDE INTERVENTION.
HAD NO ONE INTERVENED IN THE
CIVIL WAR SEVEN YEARS AGO, IT
PROBABLY WOULD HAVE ENDED IN SIX
MONTHS AND YOU WOULDN'T HAVE HAD
HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE
KILLED AND MILLIONS OF PEOPLE
DISPLACED.
THE WAY WE DETERMINE IN OUR
COUNTRY WHETHER SOMETHING IS IN
OUR NATIONAL INTEREST IS WE VOTE
ON IT.
THAT'S WHY THE CONSTITUTION PUT
THE POWER IN CONGRESS.
WE DEBATE FULLY WHETHER OR NOT
TO GO TO WAR AND THEN CONGRESS
DECIDES, NOT THE PRESIDENT.
HERE'S THE INTERESTING THING.
ALL THESE PEOPLE YELLING AND
SCREAMING ABOUT WHY WE NEED TO
BE IN SYRIA, ASK ONE OF THEM WHO
THEY WANT TO DECLARE WAR ON,
HAVE THEM COME BACK TO
WASHINGTON, WE WILL DECLARE WAR.
WE WILL DECLARE WAR ON TURKEY,
OUR ALLY, THE FREE SYRIAN ARMY,
ALSO ALLIED WITH TURKEY BUT USED
TO BE ALLIED WITH US, OR THE
ASSAD REGIME, ARE WE REALLY
GOING TO DECLARE WAR ON ANY OF
THOSE ENTITIES?
SO BECAUSE IT'S SO MESSY, WE
SHOULDN'T HAVE 50 SOLDIERS IN
THE MIDDLE OF IT.
IT'S A DISSERVICE TO OUR KIDS,
THE YOUNG MEN AND WOMEN WHO
SERVE, TO HAVE THEM RIGHT IN THE
MIDDLE OF A WAR ZONE.
50 PEOPLE DETER NOTHING AND I
THINK THE PRESIDENT WAS
ABSOLUTELY RIGHT TO GET THEM OUT
OF A MASSACRE.
MARIA: ISN'T IT TRUE THAT TAKING
OUR TROOPS OUT, LEAVING THE
KURDS VULNERABLE, OPENS UP THE
OIL FIELDS IN SYRIA TO IRAN, AND
YOU KNOW, THE PRESIDENT'S HAD
THE RAI
THE IRI
THE IRANIANS ON THEIR HEELS, NOW
BASICALLY OPENING UP THE OIL
FIELDS GIVES THEM THE REVENUE TO
CONTINUE TO SUPPORT TERRORISTS
LIKE ISIS.
>> I THINK IT HAS NOTHING TO DO
WITH IRAN, ACTUALLY.
WHAT I WOULD SAY IS THAT THIS
WASN'T LIKE THE PRESIDENT SAID
OH, TO TURKEY, PLEASE COME
INVADE INTO SYRIA.
THE TURKS CALLED THE PRESIDENT,
SAID WE ARE COMING ONE WAY OR
ANOTHER, YOU HAVE 50 SOLDIERS
THERE AND WE ARE GIVING YOU FAIR
WARNING THAT 50 SOLDIERS ARE NOT
IN A GOOD PLACE TO BE IN FRONT
OF TENS OF THOUSANDS OF TURKISH
TROOPS COMING IN.
THE PRESIDENT NEVER PROMISED TO
STAY.
THE AMERICAN PEOPLE DON'T WANT
HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF TROOPS
OVER THERE.
WE DON'T WANT ANOTHER IRAQ WAR.
THERE IS NO NATIONAL INTEREST
OVER THERE FOR US.
SO I THINK THE PRESIDENT DID
ABSOLUTELY THE RIGHT THING BUT
HE ALSO DID SOMETHING WHERE HE
HAD NO CHOICE.
THE PEOPLE WHO THINK THAT THE 50
TROOPS WERE DETERRING THE TURKS
KNOW THE TURKS WERE ALWAYS
COMING.
WHEN THEY DECIDED TO COME, THEY
TOLD US THEY WERE COMING AND
INSTEAD OF HAVING A MASSACRE,
THE PRESIDENT DID THE WISE THING
AND MOVED THOSE TROOPS.
MARIA: THE PRESIDENT IS GETTING
A LOT OF PUSHBACK ABOUT THIS, AS
YOU KNOW.
THE "WALL STREET JOURNAL"
EDITORIAL BOARD THIS MORNING OUT
WITH AN OP-ED WRITING TRUMP'S
SYRIA MESS, WRITING MR. TRUMP
WAS ABLE TO PROJECT AN IMAGE OF
STRENGTH IN HIS EARLY DAYS AS HE
PROSECUTED THE WAR AGAINST ISIS,
AND USED FORCE TO IMPOSE A COST
ON MR. ASSAD FOR USING CHEMICAL
WEAPONS.
BUT THAT IMAGE HAS FADED AS HE
HAS INDULGED HIS INNER RAND PAUL
AND CLAIMED AT EVERY OPPORTUNITY
THE MAIN GOAL OF HIS FOREIGN
POLICY IS TO PUT AN END TO
ENDLESS WARS.
SENATOR, IT GOES ON TO CALL IT
SIMPLE-MINDED ISOLATIONISM.
>> YEAH.
I WOULD SAY THAT THERE'S A
CERTAIN NAIVETE IN THE "WALL
STREET JOURNAL" TO THINK THAT
SOMEHOW WE MAKE THE MIDDLE EAST
BETTER WITH OUR WARS.
TOPPLING SADDAM HUSSEIN DIDN'T
MAKE THE WORLD SAFE OR THE
MIDDLE EAST BETTER.
DID TOPPLING GADHAFI DO IT.
THE "WALL STREET JOURNAL" HAS
BEEN IN FAVOR OF REGIME CHANGE
TIME AND TIME AGAIN.
THEY WANT REGIME CHANGE WITH
ASSAD ALSO.
HERE'S THE IRONY.
THE IRONY IS FOR ALL THE
CRITICISM OF THE PRESIDENT OVER
THE KURDS, THE KURDS, ONCE ALIED
WITH ASSAD, IF THEY CAN MAKE A
DEAL WITH ASSAD, WILL ACTUALLY
HAVE A MUCH BETTER CHANCE FOR A
HOMELAND WITHIN SYRIA THAN THEY
HAVE EVER HAD IN A HUNDRED
YEARS.
SO REALLY, WE NEED TO HAVE
DISCUSSION BUT WE WERE HAVING NO
DISCUSSION BECAUSE NOBODY ON OUR
SIDE, INCLUDING THE "WALL STREET
JOURNAL," ARE WILLING TO TALK TO
ASSAD.
ASSAD HAS TO BE PART OF THE
PEACE PROCESS.
SO DO THE TURKS.
SO DO FRANKLY THE RUSSIANS.
SO DO FRANKLY THE IRAQIS.
ALL THE PLAYERS NEED TO BE PART
OF THE DISCUSSION.
WHAT WE SHOULD DO IS WE SHOULD
WITHHOLD ARMS IN ORDER TO USE
THE LEVERAGE OF WITHHOLDING ARMS
TO TRY TO BRING EVERYONE TO THE
TABLE.
MARIA: BUT ISN'T IT TRUE THAT
THE KURDS ARE REALLY THE ONES
THAT HAVE BEEN FIGHTING HERE?
THE AMERICANS HAVE HELPED IN
TERMS OF THE ARMAMENTS, LIKE YOU
JUST SAID, HAVE PROVIDED THE
WEAPONRY.
WE HAVEN'T LOST A LOT -- LOOK,
NO LIFE IS OKAY TO LOSE.
RIGHT?
WE DID LOSE A HANDFUL OF PEOPLE
OVER THE LAST FIVE USERS BUT
WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE NUMBERS,
THE AMERICANS HAVE NOT LOST MANY
AND IT'S REALLY THE KURDS THAT
ARE FIGHTING.
WE ARE JUST PROVIDING THE BACKUP
WITH ARMAMENTS.
>> THE KURDS LIVE THERE AND SO
THEY ARE FIGHTING TO REGAIN AND
RETAKE THEIR VILLAGES.
MARIA: WHAT'S WRONG WITH THE
U.S. HELPING THEM TO FEND OFF
THE IRANIANS WHO WANT THAT OIL?
>> WELL, MARIA, WHEN WE GO TO
WAR IN OUR COUNTRY, THE
CONSTITUTION IS VERY EXPLICIT
HOW WE GO TO WAR.
WE GO TO WAR BY VOTING ON
WHETHER OR NOT WE SHOULD GO TO
WAR.
SO IF AMERICA WANTS TO GO TO WAR
TO PROTECT THE KURDS, WE HAVE A
DISCUSSION, A NATIONAL DEBATE,
AND IF YOU CAN CONVINCE ENOUGH
AMERICANS THAT IT'S IN OUR
NATIONAL SECURITY INTEREST TO BE
AT WAR IN SYRIA, SO BE IT.
BUT I DON'T THINK THAT'S WHAT
AMERICANS WANT.
AND I DON'T THINK WE SHOULD BE
IN EVERY GODFORSAKEN PART OF THE
EARTH IN THE MIDDLE OF
SOMEBODY'S CIVIL WAR.
MARIA: WHAT IF ISIS COMES BACK?
SENATOR, WHAT IF ISIS IS BACK IN
BUSINESS?
WHAT IF IT HAS A NEW REVENUE
STREAM?
>> IT'S A WHAT IF, WHAT IF.
YOU CAN SAY THE WHAT IF IN
AFGHANISTAN.
YOU CAN SAY WHAT IF IN LIBYA.
THE THING IS IF YOU ARE GOING TO
SAY WHAT IF IN EVERY QUADRANT OF
THE WORLD, YOU CAN TRY OCCUPYING
IT BUT WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH
MONEY OR TROOPS TO DO IT.
I THINK IT'S A MISTAKE.
I THINK WE SHOULD GET OUT OF THE
AFGHAN WAR, GET OUT OF THE
SYRIAN WAR, WE SHOULD BE STRONG,
HAVE GREAT INTELLIGENCE.
IF WE HAVE TO GO AND ATTACK OUR
ENEMIES, WE DO.
IF YOU ASK OUR SOLDIERS DO YOU
WANT TO BE A POLICEMAN, THE
POLICEMEN OF THE WORLD, YOU WANT
TO DO NATION BUILDING, ROAD
PROJECTS IN SYRIA, ROAD PROJECTS
IN AFGHANISTAN, THEY WILL SAY
NO.
WE WILL KILL THE ENEMY BUT WE
ARE TIRED OF BEING STUCK IN
THESE PLACES FOR DECADE UPON
DECADE.
THE PRESIDENT DID THE RIGHT
THING BRINGING THE TROOPS OUT.
MARIA: FINAL QUESTION ON THIS
SUBJECT IS ABOUT THESE
SANCTIONS.
THE PRESIDENT AUTHORIZED
SANCTIONS AND RAISED THE STEEL
TARIFFS ON TURKEY, ALSO
THREATENED MORE POWERFUL
FINANCIAL PENALTIES IF THEY
CONTINUE THIS OFFENSIVE IN NORTH
SYRIA.
IS THAT ENOUGH?
DO YOU THINK THAT'S GOING TO
WORK?
>> I THINK WE SHOULD WITHHOLD
ARMS TO TURKEY AND OTHER
COUNTRIES LIKE SAUDI ARABIA,
UNLESS THEY ARE REALLY BEHAVING
AS TRUE ALLIES.
I DON'T THINK SAUDI ARABIA OR
TURKEY HAS BEEN.
I WOULD WITHHOLD ARMS.
WE HAVE A GREAT DEAL OF LEVERAGE
WITH THAT.
I DO THINK THAT WHAT'S PROBABLY
MORE IMPORTANT STHANG
MORE IMPORTANT THHANG
MORE IMPORTANT THANNG
MORE IMPORTANT THAN SANCTIONS IS
WHAT'S HAPPENED ON THE GROUND IN
THE LAST 24 HOURS.
I DON'T THINK THIS CAN BE
OVERSTATED.
THE ALLIANCE BETWEEN ASSAD, THE
RUSSIANS AND THE KURDS GIVES THE
KURDS IRONICALLY THE BEST CHANCE
THEY HAVE HAD FOR SOME KIND OF
AUTONOMY AND REGION WITHIN
SYRIA.
THAT'S ALREADY BEEN DECIDED SO
THE SANCTIONS MIGHT TAKE EFFECT
AND MIGHT HAVE SOME INFLUENCE
OVER MONTHS AND MONTHS AND
MONTHS BUT THE BATTLE LINES ARE
GOING TO BE DRAWN MUCH BEFORE
THAT.
IF WE CAN GET THE TURKS NOW TO
TALK TO ASSAD, AND ASSAD COULD
REASSURE THEM THAT THEY ARE
GOING TO CONTROL THEIR SIDE OF
THE BORDER AND THERE ARE GOING
TO BE NO INCURSIONS FROM THESE
SYRIAN KURDS, THE OTHER IRONY
ABOUT ALL THE LOVE FOR THE
SYRIAN KURDS IS YOU REALIZE THAT
THEY ARE THE SOCIALIST WORKERS
PARTY.
BASICALLY THE KURDISTAN WORKERS
PARTY.
MANY IRAQI KURDS DON'T LIKE THE
SYRIAN KURDS AND HAVE TURNED
THEM INTO THE TURKISH GOVERNMENT
BECAUSE THEY HAVE BEEN IN FAVOR
OF ATTACKS ACROSS THE TURKISH
BORDER.
THIS WAR HAS BEEN GOING ON A
HUNDRED YEARS.
WE HAVE GOT NO BUSINESS THINKING
THAT WE ARE GOING TO BE THE