FIRST FIRE AND FURY AND THEN LOCKED AND LOADED.
WE'LL TALK ABOUT THAT LATER. TO MOVE ON, WE WANT TO GIVE A
TRIP DOWN THE MANAFORT MEMORY LANE AND EXPLAIN WHAT'S GOING ON
WITH MANAFORT AND WHAT IT MIGHT MEAN.
LET'S LOOK AT THE TIME LINE WHEN MANAFORT WAS THE CAMPAIGN
CHAIRMAN. ON THE 14th THE NEW YORK TYPES
REPORTED THAT HANDWRITTEN LEDGERED INDICATED HE RECEIVED
MORE THAN $12 MILLION IN UNDISCLOSED PAYMENTS FROM A
PRORUSSIAN POLITICAL INDICATOR IN UKRAINE.
THREE DAYS LATER MANAFORT DENIES AN A.P. REPORT THAT HE HELPED TO
SECRETLY ROUT $2 MILLION TO LOBBYING FIRMS.
THAT SAME DAY STEVE BANNON WAS NAMED THE CHIEF EXECUTIVE.
TWO DAYS AFTER THAT MANAFORT WAS PUSHED OUT OF THE CAMPAIGN.
NOW, JUMP AHEAD TO APRIL OF THIS YEAR.
THE A.P. OBTAINING FINANCIAL RECORDS THAT SHOWED TWO WIRE
TRANSFERS TO PAUL MANAFORT'S FIRM.
THIS LED MANAFORT TO REGISTER AS A FOREIGN AGENT ON JUNE 27TH
DISCLOSING $17 MILLION IN PAYMENTS FROM UKRAINE.
ON JULY 19TH, ONE WEEK BEFORE THE RAID OF HIS HOME, JUST THE
OTHER DAY, "THE NEW YORK TIMES" REPORTED THAT MANAFORT HAD BEEN
NO DEBT TO PRORUSSIAN INTERESTS BY AS MUCH AS $7 MILLION.
THE JOB FOR WHICH THE TIMES HAD EARLIER REPORTED MANAFORT
OFFERED TO DO FOR NO WAY. MANAFORT DID NOT ADDRESS WHETHER
THE DEBTS MIGHT HAVE EXISTED AT ONE TIME, BUT HE SAID THE CYPRUS
RECORDS ARE STALE. TWO DAYS LATER ROBERT MUELLER
WAS INVESTIGATING MANAFORT FOR POSSIBLE MONEY LAUNDERS AND
RESEARCHING HIS FINANCIAL RECORDS TO GAIN LEVERAGE FOR HIS
COOPERATION IN THEIR PROBE OF RUSSIAN COLLUSION.
ONE DAY BEFORE THE RAID, MANAFORT SPOKE WITH THE SENATE
COMMITTEES AFTER THEY SAID MANAFORT WOULD WORK IN GOOD
FAITH. HOURS LATER CAME THE FBI RAID.
MANAFORT'S APARTMENT IN THE WASHINGTON SUBURBS AROUND
6:00 A.M. HIS SPOKESMAN SAID HE COOPERATED
WITH IT ALONG WITH OTHER REQUESTS.
HIS SPOKESPERSON SAID HE'S IN THE PROCESS OF MAINTAINING
FORMAL COUNSEL. BIG LEGAL SHIFT FOR PAUL
MANAFORT. AND FINALLY YESTERDAY PRESIDENT
TRUMP ASKED ABOUT THE EARLY MORNING RAID ON MANAFORT'S
APARTMENT. HERE HE IS.
>> MR. PRESIDENT, WAS IT APPROPRIATE FOR THE FBI TO RAID
THE HOME OF PAUL MANAFORT PREDAWN?
>> I THOUGHT IT WAS A VERY, VERY STRONG SIGNAL OR WHATEVER.
I KNOW MR. MANAFORT, I HAVEN'T SPOKEN TO HIM IN A LONG TIME.
I KNOW HIM. HE WAS WITH THE CAMPAIGN FOR A
RELATIVELY SHORT PERIOD OF TIME. I THOUGHT IT WAS A VERY -- THEY
DO THAT VERY SELDOM. SO I WAS SURPRISED TO SEE IT.
I WAS VERY, VERY SURPRISED TO SEE IT.
WE HAVEN'T REALLY BEEN INVOLVED. >> HAVE YOU SPOKEN TO THE FOIK
DIRECTOR ABOUT IT? >> I HAVE NOT.
BUT TO DO THAT EARLY IN THE MORNING, WHETHER OR NOT IT WAS
APPROPRIATE, YOU'D HAVE TO ASK THEM.
I'VE ALWAYS FOUND PAUL MANAFORT TO BE A DECENT MAN.
HE'S LIKE A LOT OF PEOPLE, PROBABLY MAKES CONSULTANT FEES
FROM ALL OVER THE PLACE. WHO KNOWS?
I DON'T KNOW. BUT I THOUGHT THAT WAS A PRETTY
TOUGH STUFF. >> JUST AS A POINT OF FACT, PAUL
MANAFORT AND DONALD TRUMP HAVE KNOWN EACH OTHER FOR 30 YEARS
AND PAUL MANAFORT HAS AN APARTMENT IN TRUMP TOWER.
TO HEAR DONALD TRUMP SAYING HARDLY KNEW HIM, WHAT THE HECK
IS A LITTLE STRANGE. LET'S BRING IN LAW PROFESSOR
FROM GEORGE WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY, JONATHAN TURLY.
TALK ABOUT WHERE WE ARE NOW WITH RESPECT TO THE THREAD THAT
RELATES TO PAUL MANAFORT AND WHAT JEOPARDY HE'S IN AND HOW
THAT KIND OF JEOPARDY MIGHT PRODUCE A CERTAIN KIND OF
JEOPARDY FOR DONALD TRUMP. >> HE'S CLEARLY THE PERSON MOST
AT RISK AT THIS STAGE IN THE INVESTIGATION.
LARGELY BECAUSE HE HAS CREDIBLE CRIMINAL ALLEGATIONS AGAINST HIM
THAT ARE CONCRETE, SPECIFIC, THINGS LIKE MONEY LAUNDERING,
FAILURE TO REGISTER AS A FOREIGN AGENT.
A POSSIBLE TAX AND BANKING ISSUES.
MANY OF THOSE ARE NOT NORMALLY PROSECUTED BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN
THEY CANNOT BE PROSECUTED. PROSECUTORS TEND TO LOOK FOR
PEOPLE THEY CAN GET LEVERAGE THROUGH THESE TYPES OF CRIMINAL
CHARGES, AND PAUL MANAFORT MAY BE A TARGET RICH ENVIRONMENT FOR
THEM. >> JONATHAN, WHAT'S YOUR
INSTINCT AS A LAWYER AND OBSERVER OF THIS CASE THAT BOB
MUELLER AND THE SPECIAL PROSECUTOR'S OFFICE, THEY ARE
BASICALLY GOING DOWN THE AL CAPONE TRAIL ON MANAFORT.
THEY COULD HANG HIM ON TAX CHARGES.
>> I THINK CLEARLY THEY WANTED TO SEND A MESSAGE.
I ACTUALLY THINK PEOPLE ARE A LITTLE TOO THRILLED TO SEE A
TRUMP ASSOCIATE SUBJECT OF A KNOWN WARRANT.
I'VE BEEN A CRITIC OF NO KNOCK WARRANTS FOR YEARS.
IT'S TROUBLING. I THINK IT WAS GRATUITOUS AND
EXCESSIVE. THERE ARE ABOUT 20,000 OF THESE
A YEAR THAT OCCUR. IT'S NOT THE NORM TO HAVE A NO
KNOCK WARRANT IN A WHITE COLLAR CASE.
THE SUPREME COURT HAS EXPRESSED ITS CONCERN AND LOWER COURTS.
BUT FEDERAL JUDGES HAVE ENTIRELY REFUSED TO CARRY OUT THEIR DUTY
TO TRY TO RESTRICT THIS. WHAT DID THEY THINK HE WAS GOING
TO DO? MEET THEM AT THE DOOR WITH A
GLOCK OR FLUSH HIS LAPTOP DOWN THE TOILET?
IT SEEMED TO ME TO BE RATHER EXCESSIVE.
>> YOU SAY IT'S GRATUITOUS, BUT YOU DON'T -- WE DON'T KNOW WHAT
MUELLER, WHAT INFORMATION MUELLER HAD.
>> THAT'S RIGHT. >> WE DON'T KNOW WHERE HE'S
GOING. WE DON'T KNOW WHETHER IT'S
GRATUITOUS OR NOT IN THE FIRST CASE.
WE HAD AN ATTORNEY ON EARLY THAT SAID THAT HAPPENED TO HIS
CLIENTS BEFORE WHEN THE FBI WANTED TO CONFIRM THAT THEY DID
NOT HAVE CLASSIFIED MATERIALS. WHAT MAKES IT GRATUITOUS IN THIS
CASE? ARE YOU JUST TALKING GENERALLY
ABOUT FBI RAIDS OF THIS KIND? >> NO, MOST OF US ON THE
CRIMINAL DEFENSE HAVE HAD NO KNOCK WARRANTS OCCUR WITH THEIR
CLIENTS, BUT IN A WHITE COLLAR CRIME SETTING, NO, IT IS NOT THE
NORM. NO KNOCKS ARE SUPPOSED TO BE
USED IN DANGEROUS SITUATIONS. IT IS CERTAINLY TRUE THAT
THEY'RE USED NOW MORE THAN THEY SHOULD BE.
THE POINT IS NOT THAT THE WARRANT WAS UNLAWFUL OR
SUGGESTED THIS EVIDENCE COULD SOMEHOW BE SUPPRESSED.
I THINK THE WARRANT IS VALID. IT'S LIKELY TO BE UPHELD.
THE POINT IS THERE WAS NO BASIS WHERE T EXCESSIVE TO DO THE NO
KNOCK TO COME BARGING INTO THE HOUSE PREDAWN AS IF HE'S A
PHYSICAL DANGER OR DESTROY EVIDENCE.
>> BUT WHAT ABOUT THE PRESERVATION OF EVIDENCE?
WHAT ABOUT A LAPTOP? WHAT ABOUT A COMPUTER, COMPUTERS
THROUGHOUT THE -- WHAT ABOUT EXTERNAL DRIVES?
>> DO YOU THINK HE'S GOING TO START SWALLOWING THUMB DRIVES?
ALL THEY DO IS KNOCK ON THE DOOR.
IF HE DOESN'T OPEN IT, THEY TAKE THE DOOR DOWN.
THIS SEEMED TO BE A BIT GRATUITOUS IN SHOWING UP AT HIS
BEDROOM DOOR ON A NO KNOCK. THIS MIGHT BE A SMALL POINT, BUT
MANY OF US ON THE CIVIL LIBERTY SIDE HAVE BEEN FIGHTING AGAINST
THE RISE OF NO KNOCKS FOR YEARS. >> BUT JONATHAN, THE PROCESS OF
GETTING A NO KNOCK SUBPOENA ENTAILS HAVING TO GO TO A JUDGE,
A NEUTRAL JUDGE, AND POINTING OUT TO THE JUDGE THAT THEY ARE
LOOKING FOR SPECIFIC ITEMS THAT WERE NOT INCLUDED IN THE
INFORMATION HANDOUT THAT MANAFORT AND HIS LAWYERS HAD
PROVIDED EARLIER. IT'S NOT AS IF THEY GET IT ON A
WHIM. YOU KNOW THIS.
IT'S NOT A GRAND JURY SUBPOENA. IT'S A NO KNOCK WARRANT THAT
REQUIRES EXTENSIVE PROOF TO A NEUTRAL JUDGE, AND THEN THE
WARRANT IS SEALED AS TO WHAT THEY WERE GOING AFTER.
>> I HAVE NO QUESTION THAT THEY WERE GOING AFTER VALID EVIDENCE.
THE QUESTION IS THE MEANS OF THE NO KNOCK.
NOT THE SEARCH ITSELF. THEY CLEARLY MADE OUT THE CASE
THAT THERE WAS EVIDENCE THERE THAT THEY THOUGHT THEY WOULD
FIND. BUT GROUPS FOR YEARS HAVE BEEN
SAYING JUDGES ARE BLINDABLY SIGNING NO KNOCKS WHEN IN THE
PAST JUDGES WOULD SAY YOU DON'T NEED TO DO A NO KNOCK.
JUST DO A WARRANT. DO A SEARCH.
KNOCK ON THE DOOR. IF THEY DON'T OPEN IT, TAKE THE
DOOR DOWN, BUT THESE NO KNOCKS HAVE RESULTED IN A GREAT DEAL OF
ABUSE, AND WHETHER IT'S PAUL MANAFORT OR NOT, IT SHOULD
CONCERN PEOPLE. I DON'T THINK THERE WAS ANY
JUSTIFICATION TO DO A NO KNOCK AS OPPOSED TO A NORMAL WARRANT.
>> THE CONTEXT IS A CAPITOL HILL INVESTIGATION.
THIS CAME THE DAY AFTER HE HAD GONE TO THE COMMITTEES WITH SOME
INFORMATION, BUT THERE WAS A BIG -- CHUCK GRASSLEY WAS ANGRY
WITH NOW MANAFORT WAS OR WASN'T BEING FORTHCOMING.
THERE WAS A REAL SENSE HE WAS NOT GIVING THEM EVERYTHING
AVAILABLE TO HIM. THEY SUBPOENAED HIM.
THEY SAID WE'LL DROP THE SUBPOENA IF YOU COME THIS FAR ON
OUR EVIDENCE. THAT'S WHEN THE FBI WENT IN AND
SAY WE CLEARLY NEED ACCESS TO THIS INFORMATION BECAUSE YOU'RE
NOT GIVING IT UP. >> WE'RE HEARING DIFFERENT
THINGS. MANAFORT'S ATTORNEY AID THIS
INFORMATION WAS NEVER DEMANDED BY THE FBI BEFORE THE WARRANT
AND THEY WERE PEEVED ABOUT THAT. BUT I THINK YOU'RE RIGHT.
CLEARLY IT HAS NOT BEEN AS FORTHCOMING OF AN EXCHANGE OF
INFORMATION AS IT SHOULD BE. THE POINT OF FACT IS THIS STUFF
IS GOING TO GET RELEASED. THEY'RE GOING TO GET EVERYTHING
THEY WANT. AND SO IN MY VIEW, THEY SHOULD
HAVE TURNED IT OVER EARLIER. >> JONATHAN, ALISE HERE.
WITH ALL OF THIS NEWS ABOUT THE RAID, THE PREDAWN RAID ON PAUL
MANAFORT'S HOME, ANOTHER BLOCK BUSTER STORY HAS BEEN FORGOTTEN
JUST THAT LAST FRIDAY "THE NEW YORK TIMES" REPORTED THAT MIKE
FLYNN HAD FAILED TO REPORT ABOUT $400,000 THAT POSSIBLY HAD BEEN
FUNNELED THROUGH A TURKISH BUSINESS BUT WAS FROM THE
TURKISH GOVERNMENT. HOW MUCH OF A PROBLEM IS THIS
FOR MIKE FLYNN? >> I THINK IT'S A BIG PROBLEM.
FLYNN AND MANAFORT ARE THE OBVIOUS TARGETS FOR THE
PROSECUTORS. MUELLER HAS BROUGHT ON
PROSECUTORS WHO ARE KNOWN TO FLIP WITNESSES.
YOU DO IT BY PRESSURING THEM. ANY CRIME THEY FIND, THEY CAN
USE AS LEVERAGE. THAT'S WHY THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF
TALK ABOUT THE TACTICAL USE OF PARDONS TO PARDON THEM AND
REMOVE THE LEVERAGE. BUT STUFF LIKE THIS IS VERY,
VERY SERIOUS. WHEN YOU HAVE A SPECIAL COUNSEL
IN THE FIELD, THESE THINGS CAN BE CRIMINALIZED.
IT COULD BE WEAPONIZED BY A SPECIAL COUNSEL.
>> ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU SO MUCH