(upbeat fast paced techno music)
>> Narrator: Live from San Francisco,
celebrating 10 years of high tech coverage,
it's The Cube.
Covering VMworld 2019.
Brought to you buy VMware and it's ecosystem partners.
>> Welcome back everyone.
Cube, the coverage here VMworld 2019.
I'm John Furrier.
Dave Vellante.
Dave 10 years covering The Cube.
Lots changed.
The game is still the same
when it comes to storage back in recovery.
Got some new stuff too, some great news.
Two great guests.
Cube Alumni Shay Mowlem who's the Senior Vice President
of Product Strategy Rubric.
Chris Wahl, Chief Technologist at Rubric.
Guys, welcome back to The Cube.
>> Thanks. >> Good to be here.
>> The game always is getting better
in terms of modernization, that's the big trend.
Digital transformation their are talks about that,
but cloud impact has been something that you guys
been riding the wave like I said, great success.
I don't think you guys have been classified as a startup
anymore, you're more in high growth mode.
Let's cover the news.
What's happening with the announcements here at Vmworld?
What's the big news?
>> We announced our new release of Andy's 5.1
and really breaking new ground
and expanding our position into new markets
around data governance, disaster recovery
and we're also bringing in continuous data protection
as a core capability of our product.
Really excited about it.
These are areas that have generally been addressed
through sort of separate siloed approaches,
and we see a lot of synergy with backup recovery
and brought it all together as part of this offering.
>> How's the news going over?
>> Oh it's been great.
I mean if you look at data governance,
everyone is struggling today with privacy.
How do you discover personally identifiable information
in your backup archives?
Very hard problem to solve.
Generally people do spot audits and checks.
We've just made that really easy.
Streamline with a backup process.
It sort of naturally fits there in some ways
'cause I'm backing it up,
why not process that data to discover?
Sends that information and classify it and our customers
are really excited about that.
>> Chris, talk about the architectural shift.
'Cause one of the things that we were observing
in our opening day analysis is storage
is still a hot startup sector.
I mean, storage is not storage anymore.
It's evolved.
We were even joking this morning
with Nvidia and Dalium C guy around H, VDI.
That's not VDI anymore, it's user experience.
Storage specifically with cloud
has certainly changed on premises.
Everyone now recognizes hybrid finally as standard,
not going away.
But the operating model is requiring a new architect,
'cause you can't just take the old
and recycle it into the new.
We'll talk about what that is specifically
and why it's important.
>> Yeah and I'll kind of tie that back to what we're talking
here with cloud data management.
It's kind of this acknowledgement
that the way we did IT back in the day,
where the storage food group was completely isolated,
things went into it, things came out of it,
but it wasn't part of that kind of overall architecture.
Especially when you start talking public cloud and whatnot,
that was just to kind of acknowledge that this model
of IT just isn't going to carry us forward,
and that's similar to the process
of let's take all this backup data with Rubrik,
let's index it, inventory it, really start to understand
what's going on and use that as like the jet fuel
that actually powers our Polaris platform
and all of our data management applications.
I think that all starts with storage.
We had to have that data,
add a primary into some secondary location,
keep it very efficient, figure out how it's going to get
from one place to the next.
That used to be data centers,
now it's clouds and back and forth.
>> It's funny, these sacred cloud categories,
backup recovery idea.
It's data.
I mean, this is a data problem.
It's data, it's value is in data.
You're seeing platform kind of thinking coming in.
We talked about this in Palo Alto in our studio
when you came in. >> Yes we did.
It's a platform thing,
it's not just this tool or siloed approach.
>> Absolutely.
That was when we spoke last,
I had recently joined Rubric back then.
Our vision had always been, this is high value data.
Yes, we're going to build back up in a way
that is quite revolutionary,
but how do we create more leverage out of that data?
We're starting to see actual execution to that,
both with our radar product ransom where recovery,
sonar for data governance, orchestrated DR,
exposing more and more value out of that data
and it's really connecting.
>> I'd love to come back to the announcement,
the Andys announcement.
>> Shay: Yes.
>> You talk about governance, DR, and CDP.
You're right, these often times would be point products,
but explain to people sort of the before and the after.
>> Shay: Sure.
>> That you try to, when you walk into an account,
you might see like I say, different point products.
How are they transitioning?
Maybe you could add some color there.
>> Yeah absolutely.
With data governance, everybody's,
everyone's got deal with it today at some level.
I use privacy as an example,
but truly we all are impacted if you're in health care
you've got HIPPA.
If you're dealing with financial data, you've got PCI.
Generally, the backup data has been somewhat of a black box.
The only way to really check it,
is to do sort of a spot audit check.
It's labor intensive and hard.
We're streamlining that process for our customers
and incorporating it as a value
add on top of what they're doing with backup
and I think that's solving a major pain point.
On DR, same thing.
Separate silo today, generally different product lines,
but backing up core objects,
VM's, databases and application stacks,
which is what you're really trying to do with a DR solution,
you know there's a lot of synergy there.
We're helping to just bring that synergy together
into this integrated platform approach.
>> You guys are doing some machine learning.
I saw in the news around classification
you mentioned it, index.
It sounds like a search engine, but again to my point
about these categories kind of being broken down,
this platform, you guys are using machine learning
to do some classification around protecting against breach.
Is that right?
Could you guys just drill down on that a little bit?
What's that all about?
>> Yes, so we use machine learning in a variety of ways.
In our radar product, our ransomware recovery product,
we us it for not only detection
of changed patterns in the data.
Ransomware techs generally involve people coming in,
updating, deleting, encrypting your data.
We look at the changing profile of the data,
and alert allonomous behavior,
and then recover it back to the last stable state.
With our data governance product,
we're also learning machine learning to discover
that PII information and trying to really help
find a very rich accurate way of detecting that data.
>> So, to killer apps, one Ransomware which, big problem.
I mean, you just,
you can't look a day without seeing major ransomware.
The Texas thing to me jumps out.
Coordinated attacks.
I even speculate, that's cybersecurity related.
Some would say there's some stayed actors on that
or sanctioned groups doing that,
but that's, again I'm with conspiracy theory on this one,
but that's Ransomware.
Killer app.
Compliance, kind of a boring category,
but super important because of the penalties.
I mean, compliance is an issue.
Huge.
>> Absolutely.
I mean, you look at GDPR in Europe,
compliance bossies here in this country
across various verticals.
Everyone's dealing with it in some form or another,
and there's no reason
why that should be a separate sort of process.
Why not leverage the data management,
like what is being provided by Rubric to deliver on that?
>> Here's another question on DR.
One of the complaints that you hear,
maybe not complaints,
but observations when you talk to practitioners,
is they can't test their DR.
They can test the fair load,
but they can't test the fail back 'cause it's too risky.
>> Shay: That's spot on, yes.
How do you address that problem?
You're all about your modern data management,
simplicity cloud.
Describe how you solve that problem.
>> That's a very, very powerful question Dave
and it's so true.
Traditionally, customers that are using on prem DR systems
need to set up the infrastructure,
the people, the processes.
It's very labor intensive and expensive,
so you can only do it a few times a year max
and that's how you know that your DR system is operational.
You don't want to discover that there's a problem
when there's an actual DR happening.
Our approach basically takes the full application stack
that you want to protect, we convert it for you
into a cloud native format and we can instantiate
any one of those snapshots
that we're taking that full application
at any point in time,
in the cloud for you to verify and test
and we streamline that process, fully orchestrated.
If you choose to keep it in the cloud,
we have a cloud native approach to protect it
and then you can fail back to your on prem system.
We've just streamlined this process in a way
that really helps our customers do DR test
in a much more frequent basis without that operation burden
and challenge that they're dealing with today.
>> Talk about, Chris,
this Ruberik build open source initiative.
Because I want, it's interesting.
First explain what is Ruberik build, what's it all about.
What's the philosophy behind it?
>> I'll take you back a few years,
when I was interested in joining Ruberik.
The one major defining characteristic of the product
that really tugged my heart strings,
was a restful set of API end points for everything.
Doesn't matter what the product does.
Anything you click it's always calling a restful API.
That goes to a pain point that I had a a customer,
was automating, we'll say any kind of backup product,
but a lot of things in the infrastructure space
was like smashing my face against a hot iron.
(chuckles)
>> Chris: You know, it's just not pleasant.
>> Bad visual too.
>> Chris: Exactly, so I'm thinking-
>> I've never tried that.
(laughs)
>> Do not do that at home.
>> The analogies, that's my one gift to the world.
>> You need restful API is what you need.
(laughs) >> Cute.
So, finding a product that not only had them,
but wanted you to consume them, made them available
across every feature, click whatever existed,
was very, very powerful for me
and a lot of other people that I work with.
Fast forward a few years, we developed quite the library
of different source projects for integrating with things
like ServiceNow and vRealize and anything that does
things from configuration management,
all the way to infrastructures code,
and we would go talk to customers about these things.
You had two camps of people.
Either, I need the 100 level stuff.
I've never dealt with CIDC Pipelines, automation,
unit tests, pull requests, what is GitHub?
All the way through, I know all that stuff,
give me the use cases.
What can I do with your API?
We wanted to develop Ruberik Build as kind of a teach you
how to make the champagne,
and teach you how to drink the champagne.
The idea is, all of our software development kits,
our eco integrations and our use cases,
are bundled into this very friendly ecosystem
where it's all open source, we have quick start guides,
educational materials, and a number of folks
that are on the engineering and marketing teams
that are engaging with people that either don't care much
about cloud data management and just want to learn
kind of the automation dev ops world of things,
or are very keep to learn more about CDP
and stuff like that. >> So Ruberik employees
donating the code for open source.
Did you guys create the project?
Was it community driven or how was that structured?
>> It was kind of three slices.
It could be from Ruberik.
We built this thing like an SDK.
We obviously own and support that.
It could be someone found our SDK,
and wanted to write a third party integration.
Heck, even Microsoft
wrote a system center ops manager plugin
and hosted on their GitHub site.
Or it kind of something in the middle
where working with like a red hat
on their Ansible integrations is an example.
>> What other kind of innovations have come out of that?
You mentioned Microsoft doing the GitHub.
Are there sort of things that have come out of it,
or things that you're hoping to come out of it?
It's hard to predict, I know.
>> We've had the predecessor of the DR product
that we released or announced,
was actually born in open source.
Many years ago, I had a customer saying,
I'd really like to automatically do DR tests
like every night, for the se five critical apps.
We have the API's,
we have the ability to live mount work loads,
we tie into the cloud, I was like,
there's no reason we can't do this.
We had that kind of bit more, manual process,
but it does the job years ago
that we developed as a use case doing
Helper Different Languages,
fast forward now it's a product.
You can kind of get to see that evolution
from idea to sort of hacking on things to get them to work,
to now it's a full product and you can just push the button
and everyone's going to love that.
That's one example.
>> Very cool.
>> Talk about the Vmware relationship.
What's the status?
How long have you guys been working with VMware
and the ecosystem, and what are some of the new things
that are developing in the relationship?
>> Yeah I mean, this is a deep relationship.
It's been a critical one from the beginning of the company.
We integrate and support,
and are certified across a variety of solutions.
Obviously V Center and in this latest release
with our continuous data protection,
we've done that in a way that is a certified,
approved approach and I think that helps us
really build a confidence and deliver this
sort of excellent overall experience
that our customers are looking for.
>> They got that open source aspect too,
that's pretty hot right now
with the cloud native stuff going on,
that's pretty relevant. >> Shay: Absolutely.
(chuckles)
>> All right well we got to ask,
with multi-cloud everything here.
What's your guys point of view on multi-cloud?
Real?
BS?
Somewhere in the middle?
Time will tell?
What's your thoughts?
>> Definitely real.
I'll add color.
I mean, I think-
>> Dave: Yeah, thank you.
>> Absolutely. (laughs)
we used to talk about hybrid just a few years ago
and that's still real too,
but we see a lot of customer looking at leveraging
best in class for different work loads
and different services across multiple clouds,
and our vision it to be the data management platform
of choice across all of that.
Enabling that choice, and giving the excellent sort of cloud
native experience that they're looking for as they deploy
different work loads in these different environments.
>> Just share with us.
We've been talking at The Cube a lot.
There's a lot of us who believe this,
that certain parts of the multi-cloud are on the BS side.
Now there's that vision that any app can run anywhere
without recompiling, without retesting.
That's aspirational.
Then you're going to need
a lot of homogenous infrastructure to do that.
The one area that I do think that you can standardize on,
is what you guys call a data management, or backup,
that you can actually say,
okay we're going to mandate that this is the platform
that we're going to use across all clouds,
and that actually will work
technically. >> Chris: Yes.
Some of this other stuff, I'm not so sure.
>> If you have a control plane, if you will,
with data management entities that live on prem
as well as localities that are available across
public cloud, then it's really just a choice
of why do you want to put the data there.
We're driving that through our serviceable agreement
domains or isolated domains where you can say,
this data needs to live in Germany.
It needs to be in this particular data center forever,
where this one needs to replicate to between France
and London, something like that.
You can make those choices
based on what you're trying to achieve,
more around non technical decision making,
than actual technical decision making.
Which I think has really been kind of,
you call the BS versus no BS.
It's like, are we trying to do this because we can
or because we need to do something?
That's to me, the decision between BS or not.
>> Well, it's customer driven too.
The use cases will drive it.
For instance, a security requirement might be
build our own stack, I want to be on this cloud,
have a backup cloud or the work load
might have certain requirements,
but again I think the data question's a good one.
That's going to be independent of-
>> I want to test it with the technologist
because if you have, let's say you have outposts
and you got Azure Stack, Cloud Customer, whatever,
and you think you're going to run apps anywhere
and that's not going to happen anytime soon anyway.
However, if I want a data management solution
across all those, actually that can work.
Right?
There's not reason it can't because you'll write
to their API's, you'll take care of that.
>> You're saying that today with like Kubernetes deployments.
They're not all the same,
but they, everybody's got an offering in there
and everyone has a full suite of API's
that you can plug into.
I do agree that things like data management
not only can, but should be ubiquitous across localities.
It shouldn't matter where you're at,
the experience should be roughly the same.
>> It's not that disruptive to say, okay rogue division,
we're going to swap out and you're going to go standardize that.
>> That's usually where the multi-cloud comes from.
(chuckles)
it's kind of involuntary.
You got two teams, just chose different things.
>> Right, right.
>> While we got the brain trust on the key here,
I want to pose another question for you
that I mean, we're going to relive the video tape five years
from now when we're going to see it, how it all turns out.
(laughs)
one of the things we've been kind of talking about
here on The Cube, but also leading up to Vmworld this year
is Cloud 2.0.
Mainly around the following premise.
Cloud 1.0 with being defined as AWS,
DevOps, Agile, Lean Startup, all that stuff
that was we all love in DevOps,
compute, storage, scale, all the goodness
that came from that.
Cloud 2.0 is more of an enterprise cloud
kind of configurations, so with that kind of,
where networking and security and data
are now kind of in the architecture.
I want to ask you guys, if that's the premise of Cloud 1.0
was DevOps pure cloud native,
born in the cloud,
what's your definition of Cloud 2.0?
Because a lot of people are looking at it
from that simple lens, just trying to simplify
that the requirements are changing,
the architectures are different, the backup can work
multi-cloud but this can't,
so there's a lot of moving parts now in this enterprise
hybrid world, so what's your definition guys on Cloud 2.0?
>> I think increasingly you're seeing the landscape
of the infrastructures you pointed out evolving
the use of different services across clouds evolving.
What's really important is that solutions
like data protection don't limit your ability
to capitalize on that in our minds,
and so we want to build this ubiquitous sort of policy,
engine and governance around how to protect my assets
and enable whether it's containerized, application stacks
that are being delivered or new private cloud deployments
that we are not getting in the way of that in any way at all
and allowing our customers to sort of broaden
and leverage best in class services.
>> Chris, what's your definition of Cloud 2.0?
>> I'll take us back I mean, we saw this with virtualization.
We saw everybody go, oh my gosh!
I can get all this capacity used, and all these new services
and just going bonkers, and that's where we had
like zombie virtual machines and all these other terms
that we don't really throw about anymore,
but it was the Wild West.
Everyone was just land and expand,
and we kind of did that with cloud in a lot of cases.
You're like, oh look at these new shiny's
that I can play with, and now you're absolutely right.
It's what about rollback status control and user security?
My S3 bucket got hijacked.
Ransomware is tearing through.
You can now ransomware video cameras and things like that.
It's a pretty terrifying world
and I think this is that moment,
where we take a look back and say,
well is it highly available?
Is it secure?
How do I know that?
How am I able to recover from availability
or even external threat issues?
To me, that's where most of the conversations
we have are hard.
>> Yeah it's the transformative opportunities
is all intoxicating.
Oh, this is great, but the reality is,
it's not as clean as going to the cloud.
>> Chris: Give me something that you know will work.
>> I got to build the system out.
It's an operating environment.
>> Yes. >> Yeah.
>> Totally agree.
You guys are doing great.
Thanks for the commentary and insight on Cloud 2.0
and multi-cloud, >> Pleasure guys.
and congratulation on your success at Ruberik.
Thanks for coming on sharing the insight.
It's Cube coverage here at Vmworld 2019.
More after this short break.
(light techno music)