>> Jeyan: MANY OF THOSE WHO IMMIGRATED TO CANADA FROM SOMALIA, SET DOWN ROOTS HERE IN
ONTARIO.
AND AS THAT COMMUNITY HAS EXPANDED, THE NEED FOR A SPACE TO CALL THEIR OWN HAS ALSO
GROWN.
VICKY MOCHAMA IS tvo.org's DIVERSITY JOURNALIST, AND SHE JOINS US NOW ON EFFORTS UNDERWAY
TO MAKE THAT HAPPEN.
HELLO, HELLO.
>> Vicky: HI.
>> Jeyan: ALL RIGHT.
TALK TO ME A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE MISSION FOR THE SOMALI CENTRE FOR CULTURE AND
RECREATION?
>> THE MISSION IS TO PROVIDE A MULTIGENERATIONAL SPACE FOR SOMALI CANADIANS SOMEWHERE IN
THE CITY OF TORONTO, AND IT'S AN INITIATIVE BEING LED BY 11 YOUNG SOMALI PROFESSIONALS WHO ARE
PUTTING TOGETHER, YOU KNOW, THE INITIAL PACKAGE, THE INITIAL STAGES OF COMING UP WITH A
COMMUNITY AND RECREATION CENTRE THAT SERVES THEIR COMMUNITY.
AND WHAT THEY ARE REALLY LOOKING AT IN THIS INITIAL PHASE IS WHERE COULD IT POSSIBLY BE AND
WHAT ARE THE GAPS THAT ARE THERE ALREADY IN THE CITY THAT THIS COMMUNITY CENTRE COULD FILL.
>> Jeyan: TALK TO ME A LITTLE BIT ABOUT -- THERE'S THIS INTERESTING STORY THAT
INCLUDES -- I KNOW IT'S 2023, BUT THIS SORT OF CALL TO ACTION HAS SORT OF BEEN THERE SINCE
BILL DAVIS WAS ALIVE, EARLY CONVERSATION, ONE WHEN HE WAS PREMIER.
TALK TO ME ABOUT THE HISTORY BEHIND GETTING A CENTRE UP AND RUNNING.
>> THERE'S BEEN DIFFERENT ITERATIONS OF THE IDEA OF A COMMUNITY CENTRE FOR SOMALIS
SINCE SOMALIS HAVE BEEN HERE.
YOU KNOW, WHAT THEY'VE LEARNED OR WHAT THEY'VE SHARED IN THEIR STUDIES IS THAT A NUMBER OF
ETHNIC COMMUNITIES HAVE COME TOGETHER TO PUT TOGETHER COMMUNITY CENTRES LIKE THIS AND
SOMALIS WOULDN'T BE THE FIRST.
SO THE GROUP TELLS ME THAT THE SOMALI CENTRE FOR COMMUNITY AND RECREATION ACTUALLY HAS A TEN
DRILL GOING BACK AS FAR AS 1983, BACK TO BILL DAVIS, WHEN THEY ASKED.
BUT AT THAT TIME AND SUBSEQUENT TIMES, THERE HASN'T NECESSARILY BEEN CONTINUED ACTIVISM AROUND
THE IDEA OF A COMMUNITY CENTRE OR THEY HAVEN'T NECESSARILY BEEN ABLE TO PULL TOGETHER THE
RESOURCES.
BUT NOW THEY'RE SAYING, NOT ONLY ARE THE CONDITIONS RIGHT POLITICALLY IN TERMS OF POLICY
BUT ALSO THAT THEY HAVE THE RIGHT TEAM TO DO IT.
>> Jeyan: ALL RIGHT.
LET'S TALK ABOUT SORT OF THE GAPS IN COMMUNITY SPACES, SPECIFICALLY SOMALI PEOPLE IN
ETOBICOKE AND SCARBOROUGH.
I HAVE ONE OF MY FRIENDS, HE'S AFRICAN, AND WE ALWAYS MAKE COMMENTS WHEN WE ARE AT SORT OF
THESE DE FACTO COMMUNITY CENTRES THAT HAVE BEEN CREATED BECAUSE THERE HAVE BEEN NO SPACES AND
THOSE ARE SORT OF YOUR LOCAL COFFEE SHOPS, THOSE ARE YOUR MOSQUES.
WHAT ARE THE COMMUNITY GAPS IN THOSE SPECIFIC AREAS WHEN WE TALK ABOUT ETOBICOKE AND
SCARBOROUGH?
>> WHAT WAS INTERESTING TO ME WHEN I READ THIS GROUP'S REPORT THAT THEY PUT OUT IS HOW MANY
SPACES THERE ARE IN THE CITY.
BUT THOSE CITY SPACES ARE ALL REALLY DOWNTOWN, THEY'RE MOSTLY NOT LOCATED IN PLACES IN TORONTO
WHERE SOMALIS LIVE WHICH ARE CONCENTRATED AROUND NEIGHBOURHOODS LIKE ETOBICOKE
AND SCARBOROUGH, THEY TEND TO BE ON THE OUTER BOROUGHS OF THE CITY.
AND SO WHAT THE REPORT FOUND WAS THAT IN TERMS OF SERVICING THESE COMMUNITIES WHERE THEY LIVE,
THERE ARE HUGE GAPS IN TERMS OF CRITICAL INFRASTRUCTURE, AND THAT INCLUDES THINGS LIKE
COMMUNITY CENTRES.
WHEN YOU GO TO A NEIGHBOURHOOD LIKE REXDALE OR TO THE INTERSECTION AROUND ISLINGTON
AND DIXON, WHICH IS KINGSWAY, THE WESTWAY VILLAGE, YOU FIND THAT THERE ARE THESE SPACES.
I WENT TO A TIM HORTON'S WHERE YOUNG MEN WERE, YOU KNOW, DOING HOMEWORK TOGETHER, WHERE YOUNG
PEOPLE WERE GATHERING TO JUST KIND OF MEET BEFORE GOING TO THEIR NEXT DESTINATION.
YOU SAW OLD MEN SITTING AROUND COFFEE SHOPS TALKING ABOUT POLITICS FROM BACK HOME OR EVEN
JUST MEETING UP WITH PEOPLE WHO ARE FROM OUT OF TOWN.
SO IN A WAY WE ALREADY HAVE THESE SPACES, THEY'RE JUST CORPORATE SPACES, THEY'RE NOT
CITY SPACES.
AND SO THAT'S WHAT THIS GROUP IS REALLY TRYING TO BREAK INTO, TO ENSURE THAT THERE ARE SPACES
WHERE COMMUNITIES CAN GATHER, WHERE THEY CAN DO THEIR ESSENTIAL CULTURAL PRACTICES,
BUT ALSO WHERE THEY CAN DO THE THINGS THAT ANYBODY NEEDS TO DO, WHICH IS MEET UP WITH ONE
ANOTHER, CONVENE, AND BE A COMMUNITY TOGETHER.
>> Jeyan: LET'S TALK ABOUT AN EXAMPLE OF A TRULY -- A PUBLIC PLACE, A CITY SPACE.
THE TAMIL COMMUNITY CENTRE IN EAST SCARBOROUGH IS SORT OF A GOOD MODEL TO LOOK AT.
EXPLAIN SORT OF -- THIS IS YEARS OF ADVOCACY THAT HAS TAKEN PLACE TO GET TO WHERE THEY ARE.
THE CENTRE ISN'T BUILT YET.
TELL ME ABOUT HOW THIS IS A GOOD MODEL FOR OTHER COMMUNITY CENTRES TO BE BUILT WHEN WE TALK
ABOUT CULTURALLY IMPORTANT ONES?
>> YEAH, SO WHAT THE TAMIL COMMUNITY WAS ABLE TO PULL TOGETHER IS A REALLY INTERESTING
MODEL FOR WHAT THE SOMALI CENTRE FOR CULTURE AND RECREATION COULD BE, WHICH IS THAT IT REQUIRED
NOT JUST COMMUNITY ACTIVISM, OF WHICH THERE HAD BEEN MANY DECADES OF THAT AROUND THE IDEA
OF CREATING THIS SPACE, BUT THEY HAVE ALSO PULLED TOGETHER SUPPORT FROM THE CITY
GOVERNMENT, WHICH IS GIVING THEM A VERY FAVOURABLE DEAL ON LAND.
BUT THEN THEY'VE ALSO PULLED TOGETHER SUPPORT FROM THE PROVINCIAL AND FEDERAL
GOVERNMENT.
SO THAT'S WHAT THE REPORT FROM THE SOMALI CENTRE FOR CULTURE AND RECREATION FOUND, WAS THAT
MOST COMMUNITY CENTRES -- YOU KNOW, AFTER THE 1980s AND '90s, WERE BUILT IN THIS WAY,
WITH MULTIPLE PARTNERS COMING IN, ESPECIALLY FEDERAL, PROVINCIAL, AND MUNICIPAL
GOVERNMENTS COMING TO SUPPORT THESE KINDS OF SPACES.
SO THAT'S WHAT THEY'RE LOOKING FOR, IS THE KINDS OF MODELS THAT HAVE WORKED AND DO WORK.
BUT IT IS A LONG ROAD.
>> Jeyan: WHEN WE TALK ABOUT SORT OF THE FINANCES BEHIND THAT, OF COURSE THE LAND THAT
THAT COMMUNITY CENTRE WILL BE ON IS MILLIONS OF DOLLARS BUT IS ONLY BEING LEASED BACK TO THEM
FOR ABOUT, I THINK IT'S A DOLLAR.
>> A DOLLAR.
>> Jeyan: A DOLLAR, OKAY.
IN TERMS OF THE SOMALI CENTRE FOR CULTURE AND RECREATION, ARE THERE SIMILAR COMMITMENTS?
DO WE KNOW IF THERE'S ANY LEVELS OF GOVERNMENT WHO ARE TAKING PART?
>> THERE'S A COUPLE WAYS IN WHICH THEY'RE ENGAGING WITH GOVERNMENT INVOLVEMENT.
SO, FOR EXAMPLE, TORONTO CITY COUNCIL PASSED A MOTION APPROVING THE IDEA OF CREATING A
CITY-BACKED SOMALI CULTURAL CENTRE OF SOME KIND, AND THEY'VE EMPOWERED CITY STAFF TO WORK
WITH THIS GROUP ON FINDING A LOCATION AND BUILDING OUT WHAT KIND OF SERVICES IT COULD HAVE.
SO THAT'S ONE WAY THEY'VE GOTTEN OFFICIAL GOVERNMENT INVOLVEMENT.
BUT THERE IS STILL WORK TO DO ON GETTING THE PROVINCE INVOLVED, ON GETTING THE FEDERAL
GOVERNMENT INVOLVED, AND ON GETTING ANY OTHER KINDS OF PARTNERS INVOLVED.
SO IT'S REALLY A LONG ROAD FOR THE SCCR AS THE GROUP IS KNOWN.
THE CHALLENGE THEY HAVE PULLING TOGETHER THESE DISPARATE SUPPORTERS AND FUNDERS IN TIME.
AND TIME IS REALLY THE THING THAT THEY'RE RACING AGAINST AS WE'VE SEEN WITH OTHER COMMUNITY
CENTRES.
IT TAKES A LOT OF EFFORT AND A LOT OF FOCUS TO MAKE SURE THAT THIS HAPPENS FOR YOUR COMMUNITY.
>> Jeyan: WHAT DID YOU HEAR WHEN TALKING TO PEOPLE IN NORTHWEST TORONTO ABOUT THE
PROJECT ITSELF?
>> WELL, IT WAS REALLY INTERESTING WHEN I WAS WALKING AROUND THE NEIGHBOURHOOD, THE
INTERSECTION OF ISLINGTON AND DIXON IS MANY PEOPLE HADN'T HEARD OF THE IDEA YET AND THEY
WERE EXCITED ABOUT IT.
I TALKED TO A COUPLE OF STUDENTS WHO WERE SAYING THE ONLY SPACES THEY REALLY HAVE TO GO IS THE
LIBRARY.
AND WHILE THAT'S GREAT, IT DOESN'T PROVIDE EVERYTHING THEY NEED.
THEY WANT ATHLETIC SERVICES, THEY WANT SPACES WHERE THEY CAN JUST DO HOMEWORK AND TALK OUT
LOUD.
THEY WANT SPACES WHERE THEY CAN JUST HANG OUT, PLACES WHERE THEY CAN GET COFFEE AND MEET UP WITH
OTHER PEOPLE FROM OTHER SCHOOLS.
THE LIBRARY SERVES MANY FUNCTIONS, BUT IT DOESN'T SERVE ALL THAT.
I ALSO HEARD FROM COMMUNITY MEMBERS WHO SAID THAT THEY WERE LOOKING FOR SPACES WHERE THEY
COULD DO ANYTHING.
IN THIS CITY, IT CAN BE VERY EXPENSIVE TO HOST AN EVENT, TO PULL TOGETHER YOUR COMMUNITY.
AND IN COMMUNITIES THAT HAVE BEEN UNDERSERVED LIKE THE SOMALI COMMUNITY, THOSE SPACES ARE
REALLY, REALLY CRUCIAL.
BUT I DID ALSO HEAR FROM COMMUNITY MEMBERS SOME DOUBT ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT IT WOULD
HAPPEN BECAUSE THEY FELT THAT PERHAPS BY CALLING IT A SOMALI COMMUNITY CENTRE THAT EXCLUDED
SO MANY OTHER RACIALIZED COMMUNITIES FROM PARTICIPATING AND THUS SUPPORTING THEM.
BUT OVERALL PEOPLE FELT THE SOMALI COMMUNITY HAD BEEN SUCH AN IMPORTANT PART OF TORONTO
THAT THEY DESERVE A SPACE OF THEIR OWN.
>> Jeyan: I DON'T KNOW IF YOU KNOW THIS, THE ANSWER TO THIS QUESTION, JUST AS LIKE YOU
MENTIONED WITH SOME OF THE PEOPLE YOU SPOKE TO.
BUT IF ALL GOES WELL, WHEN CAN THE COMMUNITY EXPECT TO BE ABLE TO GATHER FOR SERVICES AND
PROGRAMS IN THEIR NEW SPACE?
>> LIKE I SAID, IT'S A BIT OF A RACE AGAINST TIME BECAUSE THERE ARE, YOU KNOW, FINANCIAL
COMMITMENTS THAT HAVE TO BE MADE AT THE GOVERNMENT LEVEL, WHICH IS A LONG PROCESS.
BUT THE GROUP IS REALLY AMBITIOUS AND THEY'RE HOPING TO HAVE SOMETHING MORE SOLID IN
PLACE BY 2027.
THAT'S FOUR YEARS FROM NOW.
AND AS WE'VE SEEN WITH MANY OTHER COMMUNITY CENTRES, IT TAKES ANYWHERE FROM 10 TO 18
YEARS TO BUILD A COMMUNITY CENTRE.
FOR EXAMPLE, THE RECENTLY OPENED CHINESE CULTURAL COMMUNITY CENTRE TOOK 18 YEARS FROM
INCEPTION TO OPENING.
AND SO IT'S AN AMBITIOUS IDEA, BUT AS THE GROUP IS SAYING, IT'S MAYBE AN IDEA WHOSE TIME HAS
COME.
>> Jeyan: A RACE TO GET SHOVELS IN THE GROUND.
VICKY, REALLY APPRECIATE YOU JOINING US ON THE PROGRAM.
>> Vicky: THANK YOU.