>> Pat Ryan: The Expedition 36 Crew is getting set
to execute the first space-based test of the system
to permit control of a rover on the ground by a crew member
on board an orbiting space craft.
In this case today it will be Flight Engineer Chris Cassidy
controlling the activity of a rover called K10,
that you see here which is located
at NASA's Ames Research Center in Moffett Field, California.
Someday though, it might be an astronaut who's
at the L2 Lagrange Point running a robot on the moon.
The investigation called Surface Telerobotics aims to find
out how effectively a person
on orbit can operate a robot on the ground.
Earlier I spoke with the Payload Developer Maria Bualat at Ames
about today's operation and the background
of this investigation.
Well, let's start at the beginning.
Where did this idea come from?
Tell me why we think it would be a good idea for an astronaut
in space to be able to control a robot down on a planet
or a moon or an asteroid?
>> Maria Bualat: Well, I'm not sure exactly
where the original idea comes from
but we've been working a lot
on the human exploration architectures, looking at ways
that robotics, what technologies are needed to enable those
and one of the hardest parts of any planetary mission is
to safely land on the surface and a robot
on the surface controlled by a crew, say in an orbiting
or approaching vehicle can get a lot of the sort
of precursor exploration work done.
A robot can be used, for example,
to prepare a landing site so they could scout
for a clear area, make sure the ground is firm
or even perhaps build a landing strip.
>> Pat Ryan: But a robot couldn't do that all
on preprogrammed instructions.
It would need guidance.
>> Maria Bualat: Right.
Yes.
>> Pat Ryan: Now most people are familiar with the idea
of a remote control of a machine.
I mean kids have remote control planes and cars
but what are the problems that you're facing in this situation?
What makes it hard for an astronaut in space
to control the rover on the ground?
>> Well first off there's a communications delay
between say, the station and rover on the ground.
In the case of Space Station and here on earth it's a second
or two and it just makes it very difficult to joy stick.
That delay just adds to the amount of concentration
that you need in order to control it.
So we use something called supervisory control.
So our robot's pretty smart.
It can perform tasks, it can keep itself safe
and then the astronaut can take
over if the rover runs into any trouble.
So it doesn't quite know how to get around something
or it isn't collecting the correct data.
So we have the crew member monitoring what the robot's
doing and that's a little less of a direct control
and so the delay doesn't really interfere
with that type of control.
Another factor is the space environment.
So for example the weightlessness,
the radiation exposure,
stress factors they can affect human performance
and make it hard to understand the state of the robot.
So our user interface is designed
to make the rover state as clear as possible.
>> Pat Ryan: The crew member,
what kind of feedback do they have?
Is it just visual or does the robot talk to them?
>> Maria Bualat: Yes the robot sends telemetry
so it sends back information about its position,
about its different sub-systems.
So for example what the battery level is,
how the instruments are working, how it's pointed
and also imagery, so the rover uses stereo cameras in the front
that give it information about obstacles that are in front.
And so we can use that imagery
to let the crew see what the rover is seeing.
We also generate virtual terrain.
So we show the robot
in a virtual environment that's the train data has created using
those stereo cameras and also a LiDAR uses a laser
to understand the three dimensional terrain
around the robot.
>> Pat Ryan: Is this interaction
between them pretty well understood?
Are you expecting to learn something in this test
that will let you refine it?
>> Maria Bualat: We want to see how a person in weightlessness
and space reacts to this system.
We've done a lot of work with it on the ground
but we've never done any kind of testing in space.
>> Pat Ryan: It sounds
like you're testing Chris Cassidy more
than you're testing your rover.
>> Maria Bualat: Not so much,
I mean we will be asking him questions.
We'll say you know something like is the robot able
to drive forward one meter?
Will it encounter an obstacle?
What's its battery level?
And we're just trying to understand
if he can get a good situational awareness from our interface.
So in a way we are testing him but it's to give him an insight
into how well our interfaces work.
>> Pat Ryan: In the case of this test is there a planned sequence
of events or is he just going to give it random commands?
>> Maria Bualat: We have a set
of pre-planned sequences for the robot.
So the robot has its mission.
We are going to simulate deploying a radio telescope
on the far side of the moon and so the idea is
that we'll have had orbital data of the area we're interested in
and so ground teams will have created plans for the robot
and the ideas that when Chris sends the command to the robot
and starts it executing he'll just make sure
that it's not encountering anything that it can't handle.
>> Pat Ryan: How does he control it?
Does he give it voice commands or joy sticks
or something like that?
>> Maria Bualat: No we are using,
it's a graphical user interface.
So he'll see, as I mentioned, live images of the rover cameras
as well as, there's a couple of 3-D virtual views of the robot.
The robot has several 3-D sensors.
So I mentioned the stereo cameras and the LiDAR
and then our system uses that information
to create 3-D virtual terrains and then we have a model
of the robot in that terrain and that will display to Chris
where the obstacles are and he can use it
to visualize what the robot is doing.
>> Pat Ryan: And he sends the commands in what way?
>> Maria Bualat: Basically buttons, button presses.
There's some preset commands.
So for example, drive one meter forward, rotate 15 degrees
to the right, take another panorama,
so fairly simple full commands.
>> Pat Ryan: And today's task is quite lengthy in fact, right?
>> Maria Bualat: Yes.
We are, I believe we have a two
and a half hour block for operations.
Before that we will be doing a little bit of training
on the user interface.
>> Pat Ryan: At the end of the day what is it
that you hope to learn?
What's going to be the next step in this development?
>> Maria Bualat: Well we have two more crew sessions
after this through the summer, so roughly one a month.
So we'll continue testing,
continue collecting data on the systems.
We're not just going to look
at how well the crew member can control the robot but also some
of our COMM systems, what sorts of delays we're seeing.
So we're also looking at some other technologies.
And then after that we're going to look at, analyze that data,
see how well our systems work, where we can improve and also
where are the gaps in current technologies?
So in other words, what new technologies do we need?
>> Pat Ryan: It sounds like it will be fun
and interesting to watch.
>> Maria Bualat: It should be.
Robots are usually fun to watch since they're running around
and a lot of people tend to relate to them.
>> Pat Ryan: Maria,
really appreciate your taking the time for the updating.
Good luck with the tests.
>> Maria Bualat: Thank you very much.
>> Pat Ryan: Maria Bualat is the Payload Developer
and Project Technical Lead
for the Surface Telerobotics Investigation
from NASA's Ames Research Center in California.