HE TELL ANYBODY THAT AND WHAT ARE THEY GOING TO DO.
>>> JOINING US NOW, FORMER SPECIAL COUNSEL AT THE
DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE. RYAN GOODMAN.
FORMER DOD OFFICIAL AND FORMER EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF GRAND
TALENTTALENT COMMISSION NOW SEN FELLOW AT THE ATLANTIC COUNSEL,
AND FORMER JUSTICE DEPARTMENT SPOKESPERSON NOW AN NBC MSNBC
JUSTICE AND SECURITY ANALYST MATT MILLER.
LET'S START WITH YOU. EVERYTHING WE'VE SEEN IN THE
PAST 24 HOURS, WHAT STANDS OUT TO YOU.
WHAT DO YOU THINK COULD MOST PROBABLY DEVELOP INTO MORE?
>> WELL, AS PETE WILLIAMS JUST SAID, HE'S ABSOLUTELY RIGHT.
THERE WAS NO REASON THAT MUELLER HAD TO UNSEAL THIS PLEA
AGREEMENT BY GEORGE PAPADOPOULOS YESTERDAY.
I THINK HE WAS TRYING TO SEND A MESSAGE TO ALL THE POTENTIAL
SUBJECTS OF THIS INVESTIGATION, ALL THE POTENTIAL WITNESSES.
THAT THERE ARE REALLY TWO PATHS AVAILABLE TO YOU.
COME AND COOPERATE AS PAPADOPOULOS EVENTUALLY DID
AFTER INITIALLY LYING TO THE FBI.
YOU'LL GET FAVORABLE TREATMENT. HE MAY END UP WITH JUST
PROBATION OR YOU CANNOT COOPERATE.
YOU CAN LIE, RESIST AND STONE WALL AND I'M GOING TO THROW THE
ABSOLUTE BOOK AT YOU. HE DID THAT PRETTY DELIBERATELY.
IF YOU LOOK AT THE PLEA AGREEMENT, PETE JUST POINTED
OUT, HE DROPS THIS LITTLE NUGGET OF INFORMATION ABOUT
PAPADOPOULOS BEING OFFERED DIRT ON CLINTON AND E-MAILS AND
DOESN'T SAY ANYTHING MORE ABOUT THAT.
I THINK HE'S SENDING A CLEAR MESSAGE TO ALL THE OTHER PEOPLE
ON THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN AND IN THE WHITE HOUSE BECAUSE REMEMBER
IT'S NOT JUST ACTIVITIES ON THE CAMPAIGN THAT ARE UNDER
INVESTIGATION. IT'S TRUMP'S CONDUCT POTENTIALLY
OBSTRUCTING JUSTICE IN THE WHITE HOUSE.
HE'S SENDING THE MESSAGE TO ALL OF THEM I KNOW MUCH MORE ABOUT
WHAT HAPPENED THAN YOU THINK I DO.
WHEN I COME KNOCKING ON YOUR DOOR,HONEST.
BETTER BE TRUTHFUL. YOU'RE NOT JUST GOING TO BE A
SUBJECT OF THE INVESTIGATION. YOU'RE GOING TO BE A TARGET.
YOU'RE GOING TO END UP LOCKED UP YOURSELF.
>> THE ARGUMENT WE HEARD FROM THE WHITE HOUSE YESTERDAY AND
HEARING AGAIN FROM PRESIDENT TRUMP IN REGARDS TO MANAFORT,
TALKING HERE IN THE INDICTMENT YESTERDAY ABOUT ACTIVITY THAT
TOOK PLACE BEFORE THE CAMPAIGN. THAT'S CERTAINLY NOT THE END
HERE FOR PAUL MANAFORT. WE HAVE REPORTING NBC NEWS THAT
THESE E-MAILS FROM PAPADOPOULOS THAT WERE SENT TO AN ADVISER,
MANAGER IN THE CAMPAIGN, PERHAPS WERE PAUL MANAFORT, SOMEONE IN
THE CAMPAIGN SAYING PURSUE THE MEETING.
WE'RE NOT GOING TO SEND DONALD TRUMP.
YOU SHOULD PURSUE A MEETING WITH THE RUSSIANS.
WHAT'S THE NEXT STEP FOR PAUL MANAFORT HERE.
>> IT'S PRETTY SIGNIFICANT. IN FACT "THE WASHINGTON POST"
YESTERDAY ALSO REVEALED THAT THERE HAD BEEN ALERTED TO THE
E-MAILS IN AUGUST. SO THERE'S A VERY TANTALIZING
FOOTNOTE. IT'S ANOTHER NUGGET WHICH IS, IN
FACT, THE E-MAIL IN WHICH ONE HIGH RANKING CAMPAIGN OFFICIAL
NOW IDENTIFIED AS PAUL MANAFORT E-MAILS ANOTHER CAMPAIGN
OFFICIAL NOW IDENTIFIED AS RICK GATES TO SAY SEND IN A LOW LEVEL
OFFICIAL FROM THE CAMPAIGN TO MEET WITH THE RUSSIANS BECAUSE
WE DON'T WANT PRESIDENT TRUMP OR AT THE TIME CANDIDATE TRUMP'S
FINGERS ON THIS. THAT'S MANAFORT SENDING THE
E-MAIL TO GATES. THERE WAS SOMETHING THAT
IDENTIFIED MANAFORT AT THE CENTER OF THIS.
I THINK ANOTHER PIECE THAT'S ALSO MAYBE HASN'T BEEN GIVEN
ENOUGH ATTENTION IS HOW HIGH UP DOES THIS GO.
THE PHOTOGRAPH WE KEEP SEEING OF THIS MARCH 31, 2016 MEETING
WHERE TRUMP IS KIND OF HEADING THE MEETING OF COURSE WITH THE
NATIONAL SECURITY GROUP. IN THE PLEA AGREEMENT,
PAPADOPOULOS ALSO SAID HE DEBRIEFED EVERYBODY, INCLUDING
PRESIDENT TRUMP IN THAT MEETING ABOUT ALL OF HIS PRIOR CONTACT.
I THINK THERE WAS A STRONG SIGNAL SENT BY MUELLER WITH WHAT
HE DROPPED BY RELEASING THE PLEA AGREEMENT.
>> DOCTOR EVELYN, LET'S TALK ABOUT UKRAINE AND WHAT MANAFORT
WAS DOING WITH UKRAINE, IN CRANE BEFORE OR DURING THE CAMPAIGN.
HE APPROACHED AND SAID CAN I GET IN ON THE CAMPAIGN.
RELATIVELY QUICKLY ROSE TO BE AT THE HEAD OF THE CAMPAIGN.
BEFORE THAT HE SPENT A DECADE WORKING FOR THE PARTY OF
REGIONS. A RUSSIA FRIENDLY PARTY IN YOU
CANE CRANE. UKRAINE UNTIL THE LATEST
UPRISING IN 2014. PROMPTED THEN THE RUSSIAN
INVASION OF UKRAINE. HE WAS ON THE SIDE FRANKLY
SPEAKING OF THE BAD GUISE. THAT PRESIDENT SHOT AT HIS
PEOPLE. AFTER HE SHOT AT HIS PEOPLE, HE
BECAME MORE NERVOUS ABOUT THE DEAL WE WERE TRYING TO BROKER.
FLED TO RUSSIA. STILL IN HIDING.
HE'S STILL IN RUSSIA, THE FORMER HEAD OF UKRAINE.
>> IT'S INCREDIBLE WHAT WE KNOW. >> WE KNOW MANAFORT WAS DOING
THIS WORK FOR THE UKRAINIAN GOVERNMENT.
ALSO THE QUESTION OF WHAT HE WAS DOING FOR THE RUSSIAN GOVERNMENT
AND PUTIN. HE HAS THESE TIES TO THE
OLIGARCH, ONE OF THE CLOSEST OLIGARCHS TO VLADIMIR PUTIN IN
RUSSIA TODAY. HE'S A BUY THE WHO CAN'T GET A
VIE IS A TO COME TO THE UNITED STATES ALLEGEDLY BECAUSE HE HAD
SOME KIND OF TIES TO MONEY LAUNDERING AND ORGANIZED CRIME.
CLEARLY THAT'S ANOTHER TIE GOING BACK TO RUSSIA.
MANAFORT THROUGH UKRAINE COULD GO BACK TO RUSSIA, BUT ALSO
THROUGH THIS GUY DEREK WHO IS IN RUSSIA TODAY.
>> MATT MILLER, YOU WERE IN JUSTICE FOR QUITE A WHILE.
THE LACK OF SPECIFICITY ABOUT OTHER NAMES INCLUDED.
LEADING TO THE WONDERMENT. IS IN ALL AIMED AT THE FBI
KNOCKING ON SOMEONE'S DOOR WITH THE QUESTION YOU READ THE
PAPADOPOULOS DEAL. DID YOU EVER SPEAK TO DONALD
TRUMP ABOUT THE RUSSIANS? >> I THINK THAT'S EXACTLY RIGHT,
MIKE. LOOK, I THINK THEY VERY
INTENTIONALLY PUT JUST ENOUGH INFORMATION OUT IN THAT
INFORMATION IN THAT PLEA AGREEMENT SO OTHER SUBJECTS OF
THE INVESTIGATION, OTHER PEOPLE WHO WORKED ON THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN
WOULD KNOW THAT MUELLER HAS ENTIRE VISIBILITY INTO WHAT
HAPPENED RELATED TO GEORGE PAPADOPOULOS AND ANY MEETINGS HE
WENT TO. ANYBODY HE TALKED TO.
NOT SO MUCH THEY WOULD KNOW -- AND COULD PREPARE FOR IT.
YOU HAVE TO PUT JUST OUT ENOUGH TO SCARE PEOPLE.
THAT WAS A VERY INTENTION MALL MOVE TO ON HIS PART TO SEND
CHILLS TO EBB EVERYONE IN THE OR BIT THEY DON'T KNOW EVERYTHING
THAT MUELLER IS LOOKING AT. THEY HAVE TO UNDERSTAND WHEN
THEY WALK IN AN INTERVIEW WITH THE MEMBER OF HIS TEAM, IF THEY
SAY ONE THING THAT'S NOT TRUE. HE'S GOING TO KNOW THAT.
THE MINUTE YOU DO THAT, HE HAS
LEVERAGE OVER YOU. HE CAN THREATEN CHARGES AND THE
NEXT THING YOU KNOW YOU'RE WEARING A WIRE WALKING AROUND.
>> I JUST WANT TO UNDERLINE SOMETHING WE TALKED ABOUT
EARLIER. THIS TRUTH THAT INSIDE THE TRUMP
CAMPAIGN, WHEN THE OPPORTUNITY TO WORK WITH RUSSIA WAS
PRESENTED BY A RUSSIAN, THEY JUMPED AT THE CHANCE.
>> THEY JUMPED. >> THIS WAS THE SECOND TIME.
THRILLED BY IT. DONALD TRUMP WAS THRILLED BY THE
INVITATION TO THE MEETING THAT HAD DIRT ON THE DOSSIER SAID
MANAFORT WAS THE CONDUIT FROM THE RUSSIANS AND THE UNITED
STATES. THERE'S MORE.
WE SHOULD GO BACK AND LOOK AT THE DOSSIER.
THE QUID PRO QUO WAS THAT MANAFORT WAS GOING TO HELP GET
IN THERE. RUSSIANS WERE GOING TO HELP
TRUMP AND IN EXCHANGES, ONE THING THEY WERE GOING TO DO WAS
SIDELINE THE UKRAINE ISSUE, CHANGING OF THE REPUBLICAN PLANK
TO SAY WE'RE NOT GIVING UKRAINE LITTLE ASSISTANCE.
>>> RYAN GOODMAN, WHAT ARE THE POSSIBLE REALISTIC NONDRAMATIC
NEXT STEPS? AND IN THE DRAMATIC REALM,
WHAT'S THE POSSIBILITY THERE WERE OTHER PEOPLE WEARING WIRES?
>> SO I'M NOT SURE THERE ARE NONDRAMATIC STEPS OVER THE
HORIZONTAL. I THINK THERE ARE VERY HIGH
POSSIBILITIES THAT OTHER PEOPLE HAVE TURNED.
YOU FLIP THEM AND MOVER UP. ALSO NOTABLE PAPADOPOULOS IS
PLEADING TO LESS SERIOUS OFFENSES.
QUESTION, WHAT WERE THE BIGGER OFFENSES.
ANOTHER PART THAT IS FASCINATING AND NOT GOING AWAY SOON IS THE
FACT THAT MUELLER COMES OUT WITH FINANCIAL CRIMES AGAINST
MANAFORT. THAT MEANS THAT IN A SENSE HE'S
INSULATING HIM, HIS INVESTIGATION AGAINST PARDONS.
OF TRUMP CAN ONLY PARDON FEDERAL CRIMES.
IF HE LIED IN THE INCOME TAX TO FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, I PRESUME HE
LIED IN THE TAXES TO THE NEW YORK STATE GOVERNMENT.
THERE'S BEEN REPORTING THAT SCHNEIDERMAN THE ATTORNEY
GENERAL IN NEW YORK IS COOPERATING WITH MUELLER.
ANOTHER ELEGANT MOVE ON THE PART OF MUELLER AND IT SUGGESTS THAT
I THINK HE'S TRYING TO PINCH MAN
MANAFORT RIGHT NOW AS ONE OF THE KEY ELEMENTS OF THIS.
>>> SAFE TO SAY EVERYBODY IN THE WHITE HOUSE MIGHT BE REMOTELY OR
CONNECTED WITH WHATEVER IT IS WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HERE IS
CONSIDERING SAVING THEMSELVES FIRST.
>> I WOULD THINK THAT THEY HAD A BAD NIGHT OF SLEEP LAST NIGHT.
>> YES. RYAN GOODMAN ON THAT HAPPY