Florida governor gives a very
different answer in a new
interview about the war in
Ukraine, up first for us, though
tiktok CEO goes under oath and
says his company is not a
glaring risk. The U. S national
security lawmakers, though in
both parties clearly not
convinced, piercing questions
today, up on capitol hill, the
hearing in the house energy and
commerce committee, kicking off
with a reminder and misleading
congress is a federal crime.
Tiktok's chief, very, very
careful in his answers, he says
the app can keep data from
millions of American users off
limits from the Chinese
government. But lawmakers
counter. They say simply, they
don't believe it. They see
tiktok as a weapon for the
Chinese regime. Your platform
should be banned. I expect today
you'll say anything to avoid
this outcome. You gave me only
generalized statements that
you're investing that you're
concerned that you're doing work
. That's not enough for me any
American dance employees in
China, including engineers
currently have access to us
data. Congressman would
appreciate this. This is a
complex topic today. All data
that complex covers them. And I
have seen no evidence that the
Chinese government has access to
that data. They have never asked
us. We have not provided. You
know what? I've asked that
question. I find that actually
preposterous. Why if you had
nothing to hide, would you need
to downplay the association with
bike dance in China?
Congressman. I have not seen
this memo. With me in studio to
share their reporting and their
insights. Leon Caldwell of the
Washington post CNN's Melanie
Simona, Francesca chambers of
usa today and Sarah fisher of
axios. Uh the CEO is doing his
best to say. We will protect
this data. We have this new
project underway to get it out
of Singapore. Get it out of Asia
will be all in American project.
They don't believe it. So the
question is. What will congress
do? They used the scorn is
bipartisan. But there's a lot of
scorn for Facebook and Instagram
and Twitter and American social
media companies, and they can't
agree on what to do. Will they
agree here? I think they're in a
lot of agreement here. There
seems to be bipartisan support
for taking action on tiktok. The
question is actually not what
congress will do. It's what will
the courts do? The white house
and Cynthia's the committee for
foreign investment in the united
States may say that tiktok has
to be banned if it's not sold to
a us company. But like Donald
Trump tried to do this in 2020.
The courts will ultimately have
to support that decision. That's
where the next step of this
comes to fruition. And then the
last question, of course, is who
even would buy tiktok. This is a
very expensive company in 2020.
When it has 15 million fewer
users. It was valued at roughly
30 billion, according to some
reports. Now imagine who can't
even afford to buy something
like that and get it passed
through regulatory scrutiny. So
there's a lot of questions John
about how we get to this hearing
to the next step, and so the
members of congress are saying
we will pass legislation
allowing us to ban you from the
United States unless you have a
sale bite dance of Chinese
health companies sell it
publicly. The CEO keeps trying
to say we hear you we will fix
it. Listen here. Here's the idea
being that look, we understand
you think the Chinese government
can access to this data. We're
going to create a firewall. It
won't happen. There are more
than 150 million Americans who
love our platform, and we know
we have a responsibility to
protect them. We will firewall
protected us data from unwanted
foreign access. The members
simply don't buy it. They don't
think that any company based in
that has any ties to China. Even
if you try to reduce your ties
to China, your footprint in
China that if the Chinese have
even a small entry they can if
they wish, take your data and
get access to it. But if you
notice the CEO there, Mr Chu
working in the 150 million
Americans, he's trying to tell
congress I dare you, I dare you.
There's a lot of politics here
to this was a bipartisan
grilling of the CEO of tiktok,
so they are in agreement.
Members of congress, Republicans
and Democrats on that, but this
also comes with some political
consequences also are members of
congress willing to ban tiktok
understanding that there are a
lot of young users who use it.
Potential voters. There's been a
higher percentage of young
people who voted in the last
election, and in the last
several decades and this impacts
Democrats more than it impacts.
Republicans Republicans are a
lot less worried about the
political blowback than
Democrats are, for example, the
uh, senate Republican campaign
committee, they actually have a
policy that their candidates
that they do not use tiktok to
campaign. Meanwhile Democrats
have been utilizing this app on
the campaign trail. And so a
band might be too much for some
Democrats and I would point out
leadership in the house has
actually not yet committed to
bringing a banned forward, they
said. There's a number of
different proposals. They're
working their way through the
committee process, but also
point out there are some
lobbyists who are closely
aligned to Kevin Mccarthy, a
former California Republican
who's lobbying on behalf of
tiktok, a former Mccarthy aid,
so it is a question of what
Mccarthy is going to do. But
this hearing was just a disaster
for tiktok. You had lawmakers
coming out in the middle of it,
renewing their calls are coming
out and for a ban on tiktok if
it shows you how well it went
for tiktok. It's hard to imagine
that there won't be some sort of
congressional acts and it's
interesting. You mentioned that
the what will the administration
do? What will the courts do?
Congress has the ball at the
moment, and the chairwoman,
Cathy Mcmorris, Rodgers, just
scornful from the beginning,
just full of distrust, and
again, they want definitive
answers they want yes or no,
listen here as she presses for
answers, and she says, I'm not
getting them on the question of
can you actually keep the
Chinese? Can you say no to see
shipping essentially we do not
promote or remove content at the
request of the Chinese
government questions we will re
plane. The question is, are you
100% certain that they cannot
use your company? To promote
such messages. It is our
commitment to this committee and
all users that we will keep this
free from any manipulation by
any government. If you can't say
100% certain I take that as a
no. And that's the skepticism in
the sense that there have been
engineers who have admitted that
they've been able to get access
to U. S data in China, and the
concern is even if there's no
public evidence now of anything
nefarious that if China wanted
to do it, whether it's to
interfere in the U. S election,
whether to promote its views
that we can take Taiwan that the
Chinese maybe they're not doing
it today, but they have the
opportunity, the technical
ability and then the power of
coercion the communist regime to
say sorry. And lawmakers on both
sides of the aisle. We're
concerned about that and asking
questions about whether or not
even if the data was fully based
in Texas, whether the Chinese
government would be able to
compel employees of bite dance
to be able to provide that data
. Ultimately though, even if
congress passes this
legislation, it will fall at Joe
Biden's feet. It will be up to
the present to determine whether
or not of course to sign the
legislation. But if one of the
versions that congress passes
gives the authority to the
president of the United States
to be can tiktok if he chooses
to do so. Biden would then have
to decide whether he wants to
ban it. You talked about some of
the political concerns here. The
white house has brushed aside
political concerns. But when you
have two thirds of young
Americans saying that they don't
want to see tiktok band and then
you also have within president
Joe Biden's approval rating
young people essentially
dragging down his approval
rating among Democrats. It's
hard to see how political
considerations wouldn't at least
be on their minds. Regardless of
what the decision he makes it.
That's a fascinating question as
you go into 2024 in the sense
that the Republicans say Chinese
communist party just about every
other breath right, and they
believe it's and look, it's a
very important issue. It's a
very important geopolitical
issue. Whether we're talking
about social media where we're
talking about the south China
sea. Whether we're talking about
the war in Ukraine, China comes
up all the time. But the growth
of the company that does make
the politics situation in 2020
about 100 million users, the CEO
repeatedly reminding people
today it's up to 150 million now
and you look at this quinnipiac
poll. Do you support a tiktok
band? 49% of Americans say yes,
42% no so a slight plurality
close to a majority, but you see
the split there but then look at
the age differences. Other
Americans say sure. Um and
again, there are more open to
the idea of it. Younger
Americans say no. So how
complicated is this? We talk
about congress for a president
who might get the authority to
get to ban or could use other
administrative steps to do
something, but it's very
complicated for two reasons. One
you have the internal politics
here in the United States. You
just said we've been talking
about it. Young voters to you
have your politics with China.
China passed a law in 2020 that
basically said we're not going
to allow exports of our
technology. So now he's got to
figure out even if they do force
tiktok to sell the way us
company can they get China on
board to let them sell? That's
going to be a huge political
negotiation that he has to
manage on top of all the other
national security conversations
he's having with China puts
enormous pressure point on job
in in the head of 2020 for
China's making clear the wall
Street journal today that it
does not support this idea of a
forced sale. So where do we go?
Well, there's also a broader
conversation, too. I was talking
to some senators yesterday. Of
course, there's a national
security component. But also
there's the mental health
component, especially for young
people. And senator Chris Murphy
, for example, he told me yet
that he has a teenage son and he
wants the conversation around
tiktok to be much broader than
just China and national
security. And so he almost
thinks that congress is to
singularly focused on China on
this issue. Um, so we'll see
where this goes next, but that