- Hi everybody and welcome to my channel.
In this series called Take the Leap,
I talk to people who have worked up the courage
to take the leap into a non-traditional career
that adapts and enhances their life.
These people have found a way to do what they love
from the comfort of their own home.
And in today's episode, I would like to
introduce you to Annie Nguyen.
She's a good friend of mine and now she works with me.
In October last year, Annie left her corporate job
and joined me into digital nomad life
as Outsourcing Angel's marketing manager.
And I'm excited to talk to her about her change of career
and what made her take the leap.
In Annie's corporate career, she worked in
marketing executive roles and her primary goal
was to climb the corporate ladder and make more money.
After doing that and ticking off her goals for 10 years,
she later realized that it was costing her
her happiness and her work/life balance.
She is still able to use her marketing knowledge and skills,
but can work from wherever she takes her laptop,
allowing her to also be a travel blogger
on Instagram as @anniesbucketlist.
So everyone, let's welcome Annie.
(cheerful upbeat music)
So welcome Annie. - Thanks for having me.
- Yeah, thank you so much for being here.
So, let's talk about your corporate life.
What was it, how was it, and what made you take the leap?
- It was boring. (laughing)
No, I really loved my job and the career path
that I chose for myself was because of my interests,
I love digital and I love marketing
and that's what I was doing, so I loved that aspect of it.
But because it was a corporate job
and it was nine to five being stuck in an office every day,
I didn't love it, I didn't hate it,
I was just used to it and going through the motions.
It was like, you wake up, you go to work,
you sleep, you repeat, and it was,
kinda got to a point where I thought
is this what you wanna do for the rest of your life?
Were you put on this Earth just to go to work,
save money, and then work your whole life
in a job that you didn't really really love?
So that's what it was like working in a corporate job
which I'm sure a lot of people can relate to.
- So how was it when you were getting better pay,
more money, why wasn't that enough?
- I think when you first start working in your job,
you just think where do I see myself in five years?
And you just think I wanna work myself up to this role
and then that role and that role,
and I just thought that was the only way to progress.
And then I guess once you reach that goal
and then you reach another goal and then you
just keep thinking to yourself I'm never 100% happy.
- [Linh] Yeah, 'cause money isn't
happiness at the end of the day.
- Money isn't everything, for some people
maybe they think money is everything,
and then they look at what they sacrificed
in order to get there, and for me it was
sacrificing my work/life balance, my social life,
I was working myself to the ground pretty much.
I would wake up early, be the first person at the office,
last person to leave, so dedicated to my job
and climbing the corporate ladder
and then getting job offers that I thought
that was my dream, that's what I always wanted to do.
And then getting there and realizing
that I sacrificed all these other things,
I wasn't actually happy on the inside,
that's when I thought I needed to make a change.
- So why do you think a lot of companies
don't allow that sort of like, you know,
you can just all work from home.
They want you to be sitting in their office.
- Yeah, I have worked in offices that did start off
wanting to have that flexibility
so they started introducing you can work from home,
and then when more people started working from home,
a lot of people took advantage of it and then people
had their trust lost in employees and then you just started
feeling guilty for working from home.
Even if you were getting the job done,
people just thought that you weren't.
And that's mainly because you need to have the right mindset
in order to have motivation to work from home.
I knew myself that I had that mindset
and I had that motivation and drive, but not everybody does
so people can take advantage of the system.
But that's just because a lot of them
have always worked in a corporate job and--
- They also, yeah, like, oh this is like
a little holiday for me, it's sort of not a normal thing,
but when you hire someone and it is a home-based job,
they would have looked at it a different way.
- Yeah, and they're used to working in that environment
and not being distracted by things at home
because their mindset is at work.
So it's a completely different way of thinking, yeah.
- So what made you take the leap?
'Cause I know you personally and I know
you're getting married and you're having a kid,
is that the main reason why things got
more serious for you in terms of that decision?
- There's a lot of factors I guess.
You played a role in in it! (laughing)
You were teaching me this virtual life is wow,
you get that work/life balance
and fill that gap in your life.
So I did feel like I had this gap in my life
that I wanted to fill, and I thought about the future
and I thought about the places that I wanted to go
and things that I wanted to do
and then having a family and all of that,
how would I balance that with being
a marketing manager for a huge company?
I didn't have that work/life balance already,
how was I going to manage that in the long run?
And on top of the stresses of work as well,
because I wasn't really happy in my workplace
and there were things happening at home
and I couldn't be home to be with my family,
everything was building on top
and then I started suffering from really bad anxiety
and I had to take time off work,
I was forced to take time off work.
And having that time to myself,
I just thought, is it all worth it?
No, it's not, and talking to you, you're always happy.
(laughing) You think of Linh
and you think of your big smile and you're always laughing
and you're bubbly and you're happy,
and that's because you've got that
work/life balance that everyone is looking for.
So I'm happy that I had someone to turn to
and then you were able to guide me
and lead me to the path of being a digital nomad.
But not everyone thinks that that's possible.
- Okay so, what was your belief back then when you
didn't take the leap yet, what did you tell yourself
that made you still stay where you were?
- I told myself that in order to be successful,
that I had to be at the top tier
in whatever role that I was working in,
and being managing a whole team of people in an office.
And that was the only way that I validated myself,
that was what I was always told by
I guess family growing up, you work in marketing
so being a manager and being at the top
of the corporate ladder, that means that you're successful.
That's what I kept telling myself.
But success doesn't just mean that,
it's so many other things, it's being happy with your life
and happy with how you spend your time
and being able to design your life the way you want it.
So I think it's not until you get to that point that you
realize that this is not what defines success for me,
it's maybe what other people have been telling me
but it's not what I think it is.
- I mean, I guess we all have to go through that journey
where we think money will make us happy
and then we work hard only to realize it doesn't.
And I guess as much as we want people to go,
oh, just go work from home, sometimes we have to
experience it ourselves to know,
okay, working nine to five isn't as good
as what I thought it would be.
And it happened to me as well where I'm like,
I thought I was looking forward to being an adult,
but then when I got a job I was still acting like a child.
You know, going to work at the same time,
going home at the same time, calling in "(coughs) I'm sick",
you know, that whole thing. (laughing)
You feel like you're a child to an adult.
Your boss is your parent, if you know what I mean.
So tell me about your life now.
So you mentioned before you couldn't be there
for your family, how is life like now with all that?
- Yeah, I think now because I have that flexibility
of being able to plan my day and being able to
be there for my family if they suddenly need me,
I have that peace of mind that I can be present
in all aspects of my life, so I can be present at work
and I know these are the things
I need to tick off this week, but then if I suddenly
have an errand to run or if somebody needs me,
then I can just, okay, I'll stop this right now
and I'll just look after that urgent thing first
and then I can come back to this in my own time,
rather than being stuck at work
and then having to ask permission
to do every single little thing
and not being given that freedom.
And you kinda feel resentment to your job as well.
Like, why don't they understand?
And why don't they trust me, why don't they
let me have that flexibility?
And then it makes you ungrateful for your job.
Whereas having this work/life balance makes you so grateful.
- Yeah, I mean, you even go to the gym
in the middle of the day, right?
Whereas normally you would have to
go after work or late at night.
- Yeah, and you can relate to going to the gym
and not having anybody there and thinking this is so good.
(laughing) - Yeah, 'cause if everyone
goes at the same peak time, you can't even get your, yep.
- Everyone's there before work,
during lunchtime, or after work,
and when we're there during off-peak hours
we're like, this is much-- - This is so good.
(laughing) Yeah, I still pinch myself
to this day when I get to attend
one of my daughter's activities or sort of random thing
that I need to attend to and I'm just like,
being able to quickly adapt to life and not feeling forced
that you have to go to work, so that's really great.
So why do you think some people
just are so scared to take the leap?
Why were you so scared of taking that leap originally?
It's just not something that a lot of people know about
and they don't know whether or not
that transition is worth the risk.
'Cause everyone thinks that it's risky
whereas being in an office is more safe.
And that's because everybody, most people that you know,
they work in an office so it is the safe option,
having that nine to five desk job that you know about
and you know that everyone else is doing.
Whereas not a lot of people know any digital nomads,
or they may know some freelancers
and think that person's very bold and brave
but I'm not like that, just the limiting belief, yeah.
- So I mean you also have been a digital,
sorry, not a digital, an Instagram blogger,
tell us more about that sort of career.
And I mean, 'cause that's also something
that you can do online and anywhere.
- Yeah, I guess that was also another aspect
of why I wanted to start working online.
So I have an Instagram channel
and throughout the week I might get brands
contacting me saying, "hey, we really wanna work with you,
the deadline is this date", but they don't realize
that I'm stuck in an office nine to five
and I can't make their deadlines
or I can't commit to that job.
Whereas now, if I'm working on my laptop
and then someone approaches me wanting to work with me
for on Instagram, I can work that into my schedule
and I can still get my work done
and I don't need to feel bad or ask for time off
and then just forfeit a whole day of work,
I can just pop out for 30 minutes
or an hour or whatever that I need,
take those pictures and get that work done,
and then go back to my desk and then continue my day, yeah.
- Yeah, I think it comes down to,
as an employer you also need to just trust your employee.
And knowing that it's not about the quantity of hours
and making sure that they're always on their laptop,
because it's really about the output.
I know that whatever task I've given you,
it still gets done regardless of
you going to the gym, doing whatever you need to do
for your family, the output is still there.
So it really doesn't matter if you are
literally in the same spot the whole eight hours of the day.
So I think as an employer, if you are watching this
and you own a business, if you do wanna
start to hire virtual employees,
you just need to understand that
it's about the quality of the hours, not the quantity
in order to make this kinda thing work.
And if you are looking for a job like this,
you wanna find some employer who's going to be able to
trust you and give you that flexibility.
Because it will be harder, even if you work from home
but you work for an employer that can't trust you
or micromanage, then it still won't be happy.
- Yeah, and when you get that trust from someone,
whether it be a colleague or a friend,
when you feel trust from someone,
you don't wanna let them down.
If you've got a conscience you don't wanna let them down.
So if somebody's constantly breathing down your neck,
then you're going to be annoyed
and frustrated and not happy, but if someone trusts you,
you don't wanna do wrong by them.
So that's why having that work/life balance makes people
so much happier and more dedicated to their job, yeah.
- Okay, so if you had to give one last piece of advice
to someone that are like, okay, I am sick of
my corporate job and I'm going to take that leap,
what's the next step that they should do now?
- This is like your advice actually,
because it was too scary for me
to just take that leap right away,
but just list down all your different options.
So whether it be like, maybe I can ask my current workplace
to work part-time and then the other part-time
I use on my digital job and have that laptop life,
then you can get a taste of both
and then figure out what you want.
And what your option B could be is to,
I don't know, just be a contractor for that job,
and there's just all these different options
depending on what your current role is
on how you can take steps to get there
if you're too scared to just quit work right away.
But if you never have those conversations
or list down all your different options on how to get there,
to do your dream digital nomad job
if that's what you want, then you'll just never do it.
- Yeah, yeah, and you feel a bit overwhelmed and scared
'cause you can't see an actionable step, yeah.
- Yeah, and it's progress, not perfection.
It's like, every little step counts.
Don't just think I need to make that huge leap,
it's like, I can do that leap if
I do A B C D E to get there, yeah.
- Yes, yes, I guess the other thing you reminded me
that I got you to do is work out your current expenses
and what you really need to live on
so that you could really work out how much do I really need?
Yes, my job might be paying me this much,
but how much can I strip it down
and if I was to find a job online that paid me this much,
can I live with that and work around that plan?
So it's more clarity I guess. - Yeah, more clarity,
figuring out like, worse case scenario
if this happens, how will I survive?
And then once you feel safe, like you've got a plan
and you know that you'll be okay,
then yeah, you're ready to do the next step.
- Yeah, well the good thing is that at Outsourcing Angel,
we're actually thinking about expanding
to helping virtual staff from anywhere
to get employment with companies
that are willing to work with virtual staff,
so if you are watching this and you're interested
in a home-based job, then do visit our website
and apply for a job with us and we'll be
venturing into helping you find employment online.
- We'll be best friends! (laughing)
- So thank you so much for watching,
and if you have any questions for us
please feel free to put the comments below.
If you loved this video and you wanna inspire others,
please share it, and otherwise please subscribe
so you can be notified of our next video.
Thank you so much Annie for coming.
- Thanks for having me! - Thank you!