ON HIS FAVORITE NETWORK TODAY AND A FOX NEWS HOST TRIED HARDER
THAN USUAL TO CHALLENGE HIM.
IT DIDN’T GO OVER WELL.
MORE ON THOSE STORIES LATER IN
THE HOUR.
THE HOUR. BUT WE BEGIN TONIGHT WITH THE
LATEST IMPEACHMENT DEVELOPMENTS.
HOUSE INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE
CHAIRMAN ADAM SCHIFF SAYS THAT
HIS COMMITTEE HAS BEGUN WRYING
HIS REPORT IN THE IMPEACHMENT
INVESTIGATION AGAINST PRESIDENT
TRUMP.
TRUMP. AND ONCE THE REPORT IS WRITTEN,
IT’LL BE HANDED OFF TO THE
JUDICIARY COMMITTEE WHICH WILL
DRAFT THE ACTUAL ARTICLES OF
IMPEACHMENT.
IMPEACHMENT. BUT SCHIFF HASN’T RULED OUT
HEARING FROM MORE WITNESSES
BEFORE HE SUBMITS THE REPORT.
QUOTE, WE’RE NOT FORECLOSING THE
POSSIBILITY OF ADDITIONAL
DEPOSITIONS OR HEARINGS, BUT
WE’RE ALSO NOT WILLING TO WAIT
MONTHS AND MONTHS AND LET THEM
PLAY ROPE ADOPE WITH US IN THE
COURTS.
COURTS. SCHIFF SAID THE COMMITTEE WILL
WORK BOTH TRACKS ON CONTINUING
TO INVESTIGATE WHILE BEGINNING
TO PUT OUR REPORT TOGETHER.
DEMOCRATS SEEM TO HAVE LEARNED
ALL THEY NEED TO FROM THE
IMPEACHMENT HEARINGS, BUT THE
SAME CANNOT BE SAID FOR THE
PRESIDENT WHO CONTINUES TO PUSH
THE UNSUBSTANTIATED CLAIM THAT
UKRAINE WORKED AGAINST HIM IN
THE 2016 ELECTION.
WE SHOULD WARN YOU WHAT YOU ARE
ABOUT TO HEAR IS NOT ACCURATE.
>> THE FBI WENT IN AND THEY TOLD
HIM GET OUT OF HERE, WE’RE NOT
VER TO CROWD
STRIKE OR WHATEVER IT’S CALLED,
WHICH IS A COMPANY OWNED BY A
VERY WEALTHY UKRAINIAN.
AND I STILL WANT TO SEE THAT
SERVER.
SERVER. YOU KNOW, THE FBI HAS NEVER
GOTTEN THAT SERVER.
THAT’S A BIG PART OF THIS WHOLE
THING.
THING. WHY DID THEY GIVE IT TO A
UKRAINIAN COMPANY?
UKRAINIAN COMPANY? >> ARE YOU SURE THEY DID THAT?
ARE YOU SURE THEY GAVE IT TO
UKRAINE?
UKRAINE? >> WELL, THAT’S WHAT THE WORD
IS.
IS. >> THAT’S NOT ACTUALLY WHAT THE
WORD IS.
WORD IS. I JUST WANT TO FEEL FOR THOSE
GUYS ON "FOX & FRIENDS."
ALLOW IF YOU WILL TO STEP BACK
AND FACT CHECK THIS.
QUOTE, THEY GAVE THE SERVER TO
CROWD STRIKE OR WHATEVER IT’S
CALLED.
CALLED. WRONG.
WRONG. WHICH IS A COMPANY OWNED BY A
VERY WEALTHY UKRAINIAN.
WRONG.
WRONG. THE FBI HAS NEVER GOTTEN THAT
SERVER.
SERVER. WRONG.
WRONG. TRUMP CAN’T EVEN SEEM TO GET HIS
OWN CONSPIRACY THEORY RIGHT.
TRUMP WENT ONTO TELL FOX NEWS,
QUOTE, UKRAINE HATED ME.
THEY WERE AFTER ME IN THE
ELECTION.
ELECTION. THEY WANTED HILLARY CLINTON TO
WIN.
WIN. LET’S BE CLEAR ON THIS POINT,
TOO.
TOO. THE INTELLIGENCE COMMUNITY
CONCLUDED THAT RUSSIA -- RUSSIA
INTERFERED IN THE 2016 ELECTION.
ALL OF THIS IS TO SAY THAT THE
PRESIDENT MUST NOT HAVE BEEN
WATCHING THE IMPEACHMENT
HEARINGS TOO CLOSELY THIS WEEK
BECAUSE HIS COMMENTS CAME JUST A
DAY AFTER THIS WOMAN, FIONA
HILL, THE FORMER NATIONAL
SECURITY COUNCIL SENIOR DIRECTOR
FOR EUROPE AND RUSSIA CHASTISED
REPUBLICANS FOR PUSHING THIS,
QUOTE, FICTIONAL NARRATIVE.
>> SOME OF YOU ON THIS COMMITTEE
APPEAR TO BELIEVE THAT RUSSIA
AND ITS SECURITY SERVICES DID
NOT CONDUCT A CAMPAIGN AGAINST
OUR COUNTRY AND THAT PERHAPS
SOMEHOW FOR SOME REASON UKRAINE
DID.
DID. THIS IS FICTIONAL NARRATIVE THAT
HAS BEEN PERPETRATED AND
PROPAGATED BY THE RUSSIAN
SECURITY SERVICES THEMSELVES.
>> FIONA HILL HAS NO OTHER DOG
IN THIS FIGHT.
WHEN SHE SAYS IT’S A FICTIONAL
NARRATIVE, THIS COMES FROM A LOT
OF EXPERIENCE.
OF EXPERIENCE. TONIGHT "THE NEW YORK TIMES"
REPORTS THAT FIONA HILL’S
TESTIMONY ALIGNED CLOSELY WITH
RECENT INTELLIGENCE BRIEFINGS
GIVEN TO UNITED STATES SENATORS.
QUOTE, AMERICAN INTELLIGENCE
OFFICIALS INFORMED SENATORS AND
THEIR AIDES IN RECENT WEEKS THAT
RUSSIA HAD ENGAGED IN A
YEARSLONG CAMPAIGN TO
ESSENTIALLY FRAME UKRAINE AS
RESPONSIBLE FOR MOSCOW’S OWN
HACKING OF THE 2016 ELECTION,
ACCORDING TO THREE AMERICAN
OFFICIALS.
OFFICIALS. THE REVELATIONS DEMONSTRATE
RUSSIA’S PERSISTENCE IN TRYING
TO SOW DISCORD AMONG ITS
ADVERSARIES AND SHOW THAT THE
KREMLIN APPARENTLY SUCCEEDED, AS
UNFOUNDED CLAIMS ABOUT UKRAINIAN
INTERFERENCE SEEPED INTO
REPUBLICAN TALKING POINTS, END
QUOTE.
QUOTE. IF THAT IS NOT EVIDENCE ENOUGH
THAT TRUMP IS PUSHING A
CONSPIRACY THEORY, TRY THIS.
VLADIMIR PUTIN HIMSELF SAYS HE’S
PLEASED THAT THE, QUOTE,
POLITICAL BATTLES IN WASHINGTON
HAVE PUT ON THE BACK BURNER
ACCUSATIONS THAT RUSSIA
INTERFERED IN U.S. ELECTIONS.
ACCORDING TO THE ASSOCIATED
PRESS PUTIN SAID THIS WEEK,
QUOTE, THANK GOD NO ONE IS
ACCUSING US OF INTERFERING IN
THE U.S. ELECTIONS ANYMORE.
NOW THEY’RE ACCUSING UKRAINE.
LEADING OFF OUR DISCUSSION
TONIGHT DAILY BEAST EDITOR AT
LARGE.
LARGE. HE’S CURRENTLY WRITING A BOOK ON
RUSSIAN MILITARY INTELLIGENCE.
DAVID CORN, AN MSNBC POLITICAL
ANALYST.
ANALYST. HE ATTENDED ALL THREE DAYS OF
THE IMPEACHMENT HEARINGS THIS
WEEK.
WEEK. GENTLEMEN, WE HAD A FAIRLY
ROBUST CONVERSATION BEFORE THE
SHOW STARTED ON THE IDEA THAT
THERE ARE PEOPLE, YOU MIGHT EVEN
CALL THEM REASONABLE PEOPLE,
EDUCATED PEOPLE, SMART PEOPLE
WHO CONTINUE TO BELIEVE THIS
BUNK THAT FIONA HILL TOLD
CONGRESS, AND SHE IS AS SENIOR
AND LEARNED AS YOU GET ON THIS,
IT’S NOT TRUE.
IT IS A FICTION.
IT IS PERPETRATED BY RUSSIA TO
HAVE PEOPLE BELIEVE THAT SOMEHOW
UKRAINE, WHICH IS IN A WAR WITH
RUSSIA, IN DISPUTE WITH RUSSIA
WAS THE ONE INVOLVED IN HACKING
THE ELECTION OR INTERFERING IN
THE U.S. ELECTION.
WHAT MORE, MICHAEL, CAN YOU SAY
TO PEOPLE WHO CONTINUE TO
BELIEVE THIS OR PERPETRATE THIS?
>> THERE ARE SEVERAL DIFFERENT
STRANLDS TO THIS CONSPIRACY
THEORY.
THEORY. THE MOST -- I HESITATE TO USE
THE WORD LEGITIMATE, BUT THE
MOST KIND OF CREDIBLE ONE THE
THEN UKRAINIAN AMBASSADOR TO THE
UNITED STATES WROTE AN OP-ED
CASTIGATING DONALD TRUMP FOR
COMMENTS HE MADE WHICH ARE
RATHER BIZARRE AND ALSO
CONTRADICTORY.
CONTRADICTORY. NUMBER ONE DONALD TRUMP, THEN
CANDIDATE TRUMP SAID MOST
CRIMEANS WANT TO BE PART OF
RUSSIA JUST LEGITIMIZIZING AND
ALSO DONALD TRUMP I BELIEVE IN
CONVERSATION WITH GEORGE
STEFLOPDOUS IF I’M PRESIDENT
RUSSIA WILL NEVER INVADE CRIMEA
EVEN AFTER THEY HAD DONE, SO
THIS WAS HIS WAY TO GET BACK AT
BARACK OBAMA.
BARACK OBAMA. CHARLIE’S OP-ED I THINK
PUBLISHED IT WAS DONE PUBLICLY
AND I THINK ACTUALLY BASED ON MY
REPORTING SOME OF THE LEAST
INSINLDIARY RHETORIC USED BY
DIPLOMATS BY THEN CANDIDATE
TRUMP GIVEN SOME OF THE COMMENTS
HE MADE NOT JUST ABOUT UKRAINE
BUT ALSO ABOUT NATO AND I RECALL
BEING IN A EUROPEAN COUNTRY AND
MEETING WITH FOREIGN MINISTER OF
A NATO MEMBER STATE IN WHICH
DONALD TRUMP CAME ON THE
TELEVISION AND THAT FORMER
MINISTER TOLD ME --
>> SO THE POINT HERE IS SOMEBODY
CRITICIZED DONALD TRUMP WHO WAS
THEN A CANDIDATE WHICH DONALD
TRUMP AND OTHERS HAVE THEN
TURNED INTO THE FACT THERE WAS
AN ATTEMPT TO INTERFERE IN THE
ELECTION.
ELECTION. >> YEAH, AND HE DID IT OPENLY.
THAT’S THE KEY THING.
THE RUSSIAN ATTACK AS BOB
MUELLER CHARACTERIZED IT WAS
SYSTEMATIC AND SWEEPING.
IT INVOLVED ILLEGAL ACTIVITY,
STEALING E-MAILS, RELEASING
THEM --
THEM -- >> THIS WAS THE OP-ED.
>> IT’S FROM AN OP-ED.
WE HAVE JUST NOW ALL THREE OF US
FALLEN INTO THE TRAP.
WE’RE DISCUSSING IT AND WE’RE
TRYING TO EXPLAIN WHAT’S THERE
AND ISN’T THERE AND GETTING INTO
DETAILS.
DETAILS. WHEN DONALD TRUMP AND I SAT
THROUGH THIS ALL WEEK, JIM
JORDAN, DEVIN NUNES AND THE
REPUBLICANS ON THE PANEL AND
OTHERS, ALL THEY DO IS TRY TO
STRING TOGETHER IN A VERY WORD
SOLID NEFARIOUS WAY TERMS AND
NAMES.
NAMES. STEELE, UKRAINE, MEDDLING,
OP-EDS, TWEETS, MONEY AND THEY
TRY TO CREATE AN IMPRESSION --
>> HOWEVER, UNFORTUNATELY IT’S
SOMETHING YOU CAN’T GET AWAY
FROM BECAUSE IT’S IN THE MAIN PM
STREAM NOW.
STREAM NOW. >> BECAUSE THE PRESIDENT HIMSELF
IS DOING THIS.
AND THEY ARE JUST TRYING TO
CREATE THIS ALTERNATIVE REALITY
FOR PEOPLE WHO DON’T WANT TO
BELIEVE THE WORST OF DONALD
TRUMP, WHO WANT TO BELIEVE IN
DONALD TRUMP AND THEY NEED
SOMETHING ELSE TO HANG ONTO.
AND THAT’S WHAT THEY’RE GIVING
THEM.
THEM. >> IN THE LEADP TO THE BREXIT
REF RENLDM IN THE U.K. BARACK
OBAMA WHO I THINK WAS THEN
VISITING THE U.K. WROTE AN OP-ED
IN THE TELEGRAM BASICALLY
SAYING, GUYS, DON’T DO THIS AS
THE AMERICAN PRESIDENT.
ALSO ILL ADVISED --
>> TO GET INVOLVED IN SOMEBODY’S
INTERNAL POLITICS.
INTERNAL POLITICS. >> HOWEVER, IS THAT THE SAME
THING AS TWO DIFFERENT RUSSIAN
INTELLIGENCE ORGANIZATIONS
INTELLIGENCE ORGANIZATIONS CONDUCTING CYBER ESPIONAGE
AGAINST A POLITICAL PARTY IN A
FOREIGN COUNTRY, THEN LEAKING
THE CONTENTS OF THEIR
CORRESPONDENCE TO A RUSSIAN
ASSET, IN THIS CASE WIKILEAKS,
FOR THE PURPOSES OF BOLSTERING
ONE CANDIDATE AND DIMINISHING
THE OTHER.
THE OTHER. IS THAT ALSO TANTAMOUNT TO
RUNNING A SOPHISTICATED
DISINFORMATION CAMPAIGN --
>> LET’S ASSUME EVERYTHING YOU
TWO HAVE JUST SAID, WE TAKE IT
AT FACE VALUE, THESE ARE
DIFFERENT THINGS.
DIFFERENT THINGS. WHAT THIS DIPLOMAT DID IS NOT
THE SAME AS INTERFERENCE IN A
U.S. ELECTION.
U.S. ELECTION. YOU SAY WISELY WE FALL INTO A
TRAP WHEN WE DISCUSS THIS.
HERE’S WHERE THE REAL DANGER
LIES AS ARTICULATED BY FIONA
HILL.
HILL. >> RIGHT NOW RUSSIA’S SECURITY
SERVICES AND THEIR PROXIES HAVE
GEARED UP TO REPEAT THEIR
INTERFERENCE IN THE 2020
ELECTION.
ELECTION. WE ARE RUNNING OUT OF TIME TO
STOP THEM.
STOP THEM. IN THE COURSE OF THIS
INVESTIGATION I WOULD ASK YOU
PLEASE NOT PROMOTE POLITICALLY
DRIVEN FALSEHOODS THAT SO
CLEARLY ADVANCE RUSSIAN
INTERESTS.
INTERESTS. >> THAT’S THE RUB.
THEREIN LIES THE RUB.
AS LONG AS EVERYBODY’S
DISCUSSING THIS, VLADIMIR PUTIN
HAS SAID THIS IS FANTASTIC.
>> OH, IT’S GREAT.
AND WHAT IT DOES IS -- TRUMP HAS
NEVER FULLY ACKNOWLEDGED THAT
THE RUSSIANS ATTACKED AND THAT
THE RUSSIANS ATTACKED TO HELP
HIM AND THAT THE RUSSIAN ATTACK
HAD AN IMPACT ON THE CAMPAIGN.
HE CAN’T LIVE WITH THAT.
IT’S A TAINT ON HIS PRESIDENCY.
AND BECAUSE OF THAT HE’S NOT
BEEN ABLE TO IN THE LAST THREE
YEARS AS PRESIDENT TO DEAL WITH
THE PROSPECT OF ANOTHER RUSSIAN
ATTACK.
ATTACK. IN FACT, "THE WASHINGTON POST"
REPORTED A FEW WEEKS AGO THAT
WHEN HE MET I THINK IN MAY OF
2017 WITH TWO RUSSIAN OFFICIALS
IN THE OVAL OFFICE HE TOLD THEM
HE WAS NOT CONCERNED.
AND SO WHAT HE’S BEEN TRYING TO
DO FOR THE LAST THREE YEARS IS
TO REMOVE THIS STAIN, CREATE
ALTERNATIVE NARRATIVES.
ALTERNATIVE NARRATIVES. AND WHAT IT DOES IS LEAVE THE
UNITED STATES WIDE OPEN TO
ANOTHER ATTACK BECAUSE HE CAN’T
ACCEPT THE FIRST ONE.
AND WE GO FAST FORWARD TO THE
UKRAINE SCANDAL WHICH IS ALL
ABOUT WHAT?
ABOUT WHAT? AGAIN, TRYING TO DO SOMETHING TO
RIG THE 2020 ELECTION IN HIS
FAVOR.
FAVOR. >> SO THE GEAR WE SHOULD BE ON
HERE, THE OTHER LINE OF DEFENSE
REPUBLICANS ARE USING IS THAT
NOBODY WHO TESTIFIED WAS REALLY
IN THE ROOM OR ON THE CALL.
WHICH IS NOT TRUE BECAUSE THERE
WERE PEOPLE THERE AND FACT
WITNESSES AND PEOPLE LIKE FIONA
HILL WHO HAVE CONTEXT AND ARE
FACT WITNESSES.
FACT WITNESSES. BUT THE BOTTOM LINE IS THE
PEOPLE WHO COULD PROBABLY TELL
US THE MOST ABOUT THIS DID NOT
APPEAR TO TESTIFY.
ADAM SCHIFF TELLS LOS ANGELES
TIMES THAT WE’VE MADE IT
ABUNDANTLY CLEAR TO THE
PRESIDENT THAT THEIR FAILURE TO
PERMIT WITNESSES TO TESTIFY AND
FAILURE TO RESPOND TO ANY OF OUR
SUBPOENAS HAS ONLY BUILT THE
CASE AGAINST THEM FOR
OBSTRUCTION OF CONGRESS.
THE FACT IS MULVANEY, GIULIANI,
BOLTON, THESE PEOPLE CAN TELL
YOU WHETHER THE PRESIDENT TOLD
THEM TO DO SOMETHING.
THE PRESIDENT AND OTHERS HAVE
MADE IT CLEAR HE’S WILLING TO
THROW THEM UNDER THE BUS.
SO WE DON’T KNOW WHAT THEY’RE
GOING TO DO.
GORDON SONDLAND RESPONDED TO
BEING THROWN UNDER THE BUS OR
THREATENED BY THROWING SOMEBODY
ELSE BACK.
ELSE BACK. >> THE OTHER SIDE OF THIS THIS
IS ASSUMING MR. JOLLGIULIANI AND
BOLTON WOULD TELL THE TRUTH --
IN THE CASE OF MR. GIULIANI --
HOWEVER, THE IDEA THIS IS
DEMOCRATIC COUP OR WITCH HUNT
THIS IS THE MOST PREPOSTEROUS
STATEMENT OF THEM ALL.
THE CALL IS COMING FROM INSIDE
THE HOUSE AS THEY SAY IN HORROR
FILMS.
FILMS. THE PEOPLE GOING TO IMPEACH THIS
PRESIDENT ARE REPUBLICANS.
GORDON SONDLAND, NOT EXACTLY
ANYBODY’S IDEA OF THE DIPLOMATS
DIPLOMAT, A PARTISAN HACK, IF I
MAY.
MAY. SOMEBODY WHO GAVE A LOT OF MONEY
TO THE RNC AND TRUMP CAMPAIGN.
HE’S A REPUBLICAN OPERATIVE.
KURT VOLKER, ARGUABLY TRIED TO
FINESSE AND MANAGE A VERY
DIFFICULT SITUATION.
DIFFICULT SITUATION. DIDN’T EXACTLY COVER HIMSELF IN
GLORY, HAS ALSO DELIVERED A
VERDICT THAT, YES, THERE WAS
SOMETHING VERY DODGY GOING ON
HERE.
HERE. JOHN BOLTON IN A RECORD TO THE
PRESS -- I DON’T WANT ANY PART
OF THIS DRUG DEAL.
JOHN BOLTON, NOBODY’S IDEA OF A
PROGRESSIVE LIBERAL DEMOCRATIC
OPERATIVE.
OPERATIVE. REPUBLICANS ARE THE ONES COMING
FORWARD AND BASICALLY PROVIDING
THE NOOSE OF WHICH THIS
PRESIDENT IS GOING TO HANG
HIMSELF.
HIMSELF. THE DEVIN NUNES JIM JORDAN LINE
THIS WHOLE THING IS POLITICAL
CONSPIRACY, IT’S NONSENSE.
IT’S NONSENSE ON STILTS.
I’VE KNOWN FIONA HILL FOR
SEVERAL YEARS.
SEVERAL YEARS. I’VE FOLLOWED HER WORK FOR A
VERY LONG TIME.
THIS IS ONE OF THE MOST
PROFESSIONAL SCHOLARLY RUSSIA
ANALYSTS THERE IS.
BY THE WAY, SHE’S DESCRIBED
OFTEN IN THE U.S. NEWS CYCLE AS
A KREMLIN HAWK.
NOT EXACTLY.
NOT EXACTLY. VERY NUANCED IN HER APPRAISAL.
HER BIOGRAPHY, WHICH IS ONE OF
THE MORE INSIGHTFUL BIOGRAPHIES
OF VLADIMIR PUTIN, VERY CLEVERLY
IT’S ALMOST A POST-MODERN
ANALYSIS.
ANALYSIS. SHE TAKES DIFFERENT ARK TYPES OF
WHO PUTIN AND IS STUDIES THEM.
NOT JUST THE KGB CASE OFFICER
BUT THE CAPITALISTS AND STATIST
AND SO ON.