NUMBER OF DEMOCRATS ARE GOING TO HAVE IS THAT BASE THAT’S
FIZZLING RIGHT NOW.
YOU HAVE A BIDEN LANE, A BERNIE
SANDERS LANE AND THERE’S
PROBABLY ANOTHER LANE FOR A
CANDIDATE.
CANDIDATE. >> ALL RIGHT.
THE PUBLIC TESTIMONY FROM
PRESIDENT TRUMP’S FORMER
PERSONAL LAWYER IS REVERBERATING
THROUGHOUT THE POLITICAL WORLD
AS A CONGRESSIONAL COMMITTEE
FOLLOWS UP ON THE THREAD THAT
MICHAEL COHEN DANGLED IN HIS
OPENING HEARING.
OPENING HEARING. HOUSE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE GERALD
NADLER SENT OUT A DOCUMENT OR
REQUEST FOR DOCUMENTS SAYING
THIS WEEKEND HE WOULD ADD
SUBPOENAS IF NECESSARY TO OVER
80 PEOPLE AND ENTITIES, REACHING
OUT FROM THE WHITE HOUSE TO THE
DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE TO MEMBERS
OF THE TRUMP ORGANIZATION AND
BEYOND.
BEYOND. A NAME THAT QUICKLY CAME UP.
ALLEN WEISSELBERG.
ALLEN WEISSELBERG. THIS GUY IS A LONG-TIME CHIEF
FINANCIAL OFFICER OF THE
PRESIDENT’S COMPANY.
PRESIDENT’S COMPANY. HE’S SPOEVG ENTO FEDERAL
PROSECUTORS IN MANHATTAN
FOLLOWING COHEN’S GUILTY PLEA
THERE AND IS EXPECTED TO BE
CALLED BEFORE THE HOUSE
INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE SOON.
NADLER AND THE JUDICIARY
COMMITTEE ARE SKRUTCRUTINIZING
WEISSELBERG OVER THIS CHECK
WHICH COHEN CLAIMED WAS PART OF
THE HUSH MONEY PAID TO STEPHANIE
DANIELS, ALLEGING THE TRUMP
ORGANIZATION WAS INVOLVED IN A
POTENTIAL CAMPAIGN FINANCE
VIOLATION.
VIOLATION. ALSO SET TO RECEIVE A REQUEST
REQUEST, DONALD TRUMP, JR., THE
PRESIDENT’S SON, ALSO ALLEGEDLY
SIGNED THIS CHECK TO COHEN,
WHICH FITS THE SET OF $35,000
PAYMENTS LAID OUT IN THE
SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK’S
CRIMINAL INFORMATION THAT COHEN
PLEADED GUILTY TO IN 2018.
BUT THE CLEAREST PICTURE WE’RE
GETTING OF WHAT THE JUDICIARY
COMMITTEE IS LOOKING FOR CAME
JUST THIS MORNING WHEN A SOURCE
PROVIDED NBC NEWS WITH DOCUMENTS
ALLEGEDLY SENT TO FORMER TRUMP
CAMPAIGN AIDE SAM NUNBERG.
THE COMMITTEE IS ASKING SAM
NUNBERG FOR ANY AND ALL
DOCUMENTS RELATING TO FINANCIAL
INTERESTS BY RUSSIA INVOLVING
PRESIDENT TRUMP, IVANKA TRUMP,
OR JARED KUSHNER.
DOCUMENTS RELATING TO THE TRUMP
TOWER MOSCOW DEAL, THE JUNE 2016
TRUMP TOWER MEETING, DISCUSSIONS
OF RUSSIAN SANCTIONS PRIOR TO
THE INAUGURATION, CONTACTS WITH
WIKILEAKS, AND MORE.
ALL OF THIS SHOWING THE WIDE
SCOPE OF THE COMMITTEE’S PROBE
INTO THE PRESIDENT AND HIS
CAMPAIGN.
CAMPAIGN. NOW, THE WHITE HOUSE SIMPLY SAID
IT RECEIVED THE REQUEST FOR
DOCUMENTS AND THAT THE WHITE
HOUSE’S COUNSEL OFFICE WOULD --
>>> JUST A MOMENT AGO THE
PRESIDENT HAD THIS TO SAY ABOUT
THE DOCUMENT REQUEST.
>> SIR, ARE YOU GOING TO
COOPERATE WITH MR. NADLER?
>> I COOPERATE ALL THE TIME WITH
EVERYBODY.
EVERYBODY. AND YOU KNOW THE BEAUTIFUL
THING?
THING? YOU KNOW, IT’S ALL A HOAX.
YOU LEARN ABOUT THAT AS YOU GROW
OLDER.
OLDER. IT’S A POLITICAL HOAX.
>> ALL RIGHT.
JOINING ME NOW NBC NEWS
INTELLIGENCE NATIONAL REPORTER
KEN DILANIAN, JILL WINE-BANKS,
AND FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR
KATHY FLEMING.
KATHY FLEMING. I TOLD A LIE BECAUSE THE GUY I
SEE ON MY SCREEN IS NOT KEN
DILANIAN.
DILANIAN. SIR, WHO ARE YOU?
>> I’M A POOR SUBSTITUTE FOR KEN
DILANIAN, BUT I’LL DO MY BEST.
>> I APOLOGIZE FOR THAT, MIKE.
I KNOW YOU AND KEN HAVE BEEN
WORKING ON THIS TOGETHER.
MIKE, THE LIST OF NAMES WHICH WE
CAN PUT UP ON THE WALL THERE IS
EXTENSIVE.
EXTENSIVE. WHAT JUMPS OUT AT YOU?
>> BELIEVE IT OR NOT, ALI, THE
COMMITTEE SOURCES TELL ME WHEN
THEY FIRST DREW UP A LIST OF
POTENTIAL TARGETS AS PART OF
THIS INVESTIGATION THAT THE
JUDICIARY COMMITTEE IS LAUNCHING
TODAY, THEY STARTED WITH OVER
150 NAMES.
150 NAMES. THEY REALIZED THEY COULDN’T
NECESSARILY BEGIN WITH THAT BIG
OF A NUMBER SO THEY TRIED TO
NARROW IT DOWN, CAME DOWN TO 81.
OF COURSE THERE ARE OBVIOUS
HEADLINERS THERE, THE WHITE
HOUSE ITSELF, THE FBI, THE
JUSTICE DEPARTMENT.
JUSTICE DEPARTMENT. THIS SETS UP POTENTIAL BATTLES
OVER EXECUTIVE PRIVILEGE AND
WHAT KIND OF DOCUMENTS THE WHITE
HOUSE WILL ITSELF TURNOVER.
OBVIOUSLY WE GO TO THE FAMILY.
ERIC TRUMP, DONALD TRUMP, JR.,
JARED KUSHNER, THE PRESIDENT’S
SON-IN-LAW, ALTHOUGH WE SHOULD
MENTION IVANKA TRUMP HIS
DAUGHTER.
DAUGHTER. THEN, OF COURSE, WE HAVE
ENTITIES LIKE THE TRUMP
TRANSITION TEAM.
TRANSITION TEAM. WE KNOW THERE’S BEEN A LOT OF
SCRUTINY INTO THAT, THE TRUMP
CAMPAIGN ITSELF.
CAMPAIGN ITSELF. BUT WHAT’S INTERESTING IS --
IT’S INTERESTING LISTENING TO
THE PRESIDENT’S REACTION TO
JERRY NADLER RIGHT NOW.
THESE ARE TWO MEN WITH A HISTORY
THAT GOES WAY BACK INTO NEW YORK
POLITICS WHEN JERRY NADLER WAS
AN ASSEMBLYMAN FIGHTING DONALD
TRUMP BUSINESSMAN ATTEMPTS TO
BUILD SOME BUILDINGS IN
MANHATTAN.
MANHATTAN. BUT THE PRESIDENT HAS BEEN VERY
CLEAR ABOUT HIS BUSINESSES BEING
A RED LINE, THAT HE DOES NOT
WANT INVESTIGATORS TO CROSS.
AND JERRY NADLER IS VERY MUCH
CROSSING THAT RED LINE TODAY.
SOME OF THE NAMES YOU MENTIONED,
ALLEN WEISSELBERG.
ALLEN WEISSELBERG. WE SEE DAVID PECKER, AMERICAN
MEDIA.
MEDIA. THESE ARE THE "NATIONAL
ENQUIRER," THERE IS SCRUTINY.
HIS GATE KEEPER AT TRUMP TOWER
FOR A LONG TIME, WE KNOW SHE’S
ALSO SPOKEN TO THE HOUSE
INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE ALREADY.
BUT THESE ARE GETTING CLOSER AND
CLOSER INTO TRUMP’S OWN -- THE
BUSINESS DEALINGS AND THAT IS
GOING TO PROVOKE A REACTION DOWN
THE ROAD.
THE ROAD. >> THE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE ARE
ASKING FOR A LOT OF DOCUMENTS.
JERRY NADLER SAYING HE MIGHT ASK
FOR MORE.
FOR MORE. WHAT’S THE DANGER HERE OF THE
COMMITTEE LOOKING LIKE IT’S
REDOING THE SPECIAL COUNSEL’S
WORK?
WORK? IS THAT DANGEROUS?
AND POSSIBLY PARTISAN LOOKING?
>> I THINK WHAT’S IMPORTANT FOR
PEOPLE TO UNDERSTAND IS THE ROLE
THAT CONGRESS PLAYS VERSUS WHAT
MUELLER DOES.
MUELLER DOES. MUELLER IS INVESTIGATING
VIOLATIONS OF EXISTING LAWS.
CONGRESS HAS TO LOOK AT WHETHER
THERE ARE LAWS THAT SHOULD EXIST
BUT DON’T CURRENTLY EXIST THAT
WOULD PROTECT US FROM THINGS
THAT ARE JUST CORRUPT AND WRONG.
AND I THINK THEY HAVE TO LOOK AT
ALL OF THE THINGS THAT THEY ARE
LOOKING AT.
LOOKING AT. I THINK IT’S VERY FAIR TO LOOK
AT HIS BUSINESS, HIS TRANSITION
TEAM, HIS CAMPAIGN, HIS
FOUNDATION TO SEE WHETHER THAT
IS AFFECTING HOW HE IS RUNNING
THE COUNTRY.
THE COUNTRY. IS THERE SOMETHING IN HIS
BUSINESS DEALINGS WITH RUSSIA OR
SAUDI ARABIA THAT IS INFLUENCING
DECISIONS BEING MADE IN THE
WHITE HOUSE?
WHITE HOUSE? THOSE ARE THINGS THAT NEED TO BE
UNDERSTOOD.
UNDERSTOOD. AND IF THERE IS NOT A LAW THAT
SAYS YOU HAVE TO TURN OVER YOUR
FINANCIAL INFORMATION OR YOUR
TAX RETURNS, MAYBE THERE NEEDS
TO BE IN ORDER FOR PEOPLE TO
UNDERSTAND BEFORE THEY VOTE WHAT
THEY’RE VOTING FOR.
SO I DON’T THINK IT’S GOING TO
BE A PROBLEM IN TERMS OF
DUPLICATING THE WORK OF MUELLER.
AND WHATEVER MUELLER HAS AND
WHATEVER HIS REPORT SAYS IS NOT
MAKING IT PUBLIC.
AND PEOPLE IN AMERICA NEED TO BE
BROUGHT INTO THIS.
ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WORKED IN
WATERGATE WAS THAT THE SENATE
HEARINGS LET AMERICANS KNOW WHAT
THE EVIDENCE WAS, AND SO THE
AMERICAN PEOPLE SUPPORTED THE
ACTION OF CONGRESS BECAUSE THEY
KNEW ABOUT IT.
YOU CAN’T OPERATE IN SECRECY AND
EXPECT TO HAVE PUBLIC SUPPORT
FOR A POLITICAL ACTION.
>> KATHY, WHEN YOU WERE FEDERAL
PROSECUTOR, YOU DEALT IN
POLITICAL CORRUPTION.
POLITICAL CORRUPTION. THIS BUSINESS MIKE JUST TALKED
ABOUT, DONALD TRUMP HAVING SAID
INITIALLY IT WILL CROSS A RED
LINE LOOKING INTO HIS PERSONAL
BUSINESS, THAT’S OUT THE WINDOW
NOW.
NOW. THAT’S JUST A SILLY REQUEST THAT
NO ONE SHOULD BE PAYING
ATTENTION TO.
ATTENTION TO. MICHAEL COHEN, IF NOBODY ELSE,
BROUGHT IT TO THE FORE THAT
DONALD TRUMP’S BUSINESS
INTERESTS, THE TRUMP
ORGANIZATION, THE TRUMP
FOUNDATION, THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN,
THE INAUGURATION, THEY’RE ALL
MIXED UP AND IN A LOT OF CASES
IT’S THE SAME PEOPLE HELPING
THEM.
THEM. >> THAT’S CORRECT.
YOU HAVE PEOPLE BEING TOUR
GUIDES TO TAKE YOU THROUGH THE
ANALYSIS.
ANALYSIS. IT’S NOT ONLY MICHAEL COHEN,
THERE ARE OTHER PEOPLE BEING
TOUR GUIDES HERE.
I THINK WHAT YOU’RE GOING TO SEE
IS THEY’RE GOING TO LOOK AT WHAT
ALL THE VARIOUS DOCUMENTS ARE,
WHAT GETS PRODUCED, WHO PRODUCES
THEM, HOW LONG, WHO FIGHTS IT,
WHAT GETS TURNED OVER.
THEY’LL LOOK PARTICULARLY AT THE
FINANCIAL TRANSACTIONS.
FINANCIAL TRANSACTIONS. AND THEY’RE GOING TO SEE
WHETHER, IN FACT, THE LINES WERE
BLURRED.
BLURRED. ONE OF THE AREAS THEY’RE LOOKING
AT PARTICULARLY IS WHETHER THE
EMOLUMENTS CLAUSE WAS VIOLATED,
AND WHETHER THE BUSINESS AND THE
PRESIDENCY WERE, IN FACT,
BLURRED.
BLURRED. AND SO THEY’LL COME DOWN TO SEE
WHETHER THAT HAS, IN FACT,
HAPPENED.
HAPPENED. OR WHETHER THE TRUSTS THAT WERE
SET UP WERE EFFECTIVE, IN FACT,
THE LINES WERE NOT BLURRED.
>> JILL, TAKE US BACK TO
WATERGATE.
WATERGATE. WHAT’S THE RIGHT NUMBER OF
INVESTIGATIONS AND WHO SHOULD BE
DOING THEM?
DOING THEM? THERE’S A PENT UP DEMAND FOR
PROPER INVESTIGATIONS AFTER
CERTAINLY THE FIRST TWO YEARS IN
WHICH CERTAINLY THE HOUSE SIDE
OF THINGS DIDN’T MANAGE IT VERY
WELL.
WELL. THE HOUSE INTEL INVESTIGATION
WAS SUPPOSED TO BE ONE OF THE
LEAD INVESTIGATIONS, AND WE KNOW
FOR A FACT, CERTAINLY WITH DEVIN
NUNES IN CHARGE OF IT IN THE
BEGINNING, IT JUST DIDN’T DO
WHAT IT WAS SUPPOSED TO DO.
NOW THERE IS A PENT UP FEELING
POST MIDTERM ELECTIONS.
THEY WANT THE HOUSE TO DO THE
RIGHT THING.
RIGHT THING. WE HAVE THREE CURRENT
INVESTIGATIONS IN THE HOUSE PLUS
THE SENATE INVESTIGATIONS.
>> I DON’T THINK IT’S TOO MANY,
AND I THINK WHAT HAS TO HAPPEN,
OF COURSE, IS THERE HAS TO BE
SOME DEFERENCE TO THE ONGOING
CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION.
CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION. WE WERE ABLE TO WORK VERY WELL
WITH THE SENATE AND ULTIMATELY
WITH THE HOUSE.
I MEAN, WE TURNED OVER
INFORMATION TO THE JUDICIARY
COMMITTEE FOR THEIR USE AS A
ROAD MAP TO IMPEACHMENT.
BUT THAT WAS THE SITUATION WHERE
WE HAD A BIPARTISAN SUPPORT FOR
THAT.
THAT. THERE WAS AN ACTUAL IMPEACHMENT
HEARING ALREADY GOING UNRELATED
TO US.
TO US. AND SO WE FELT OBLIGATED TO
PROVIDE THE EVIDENCE WE HAD
GATHERED SO THEY DIDN’T HAVE TO
SPEND A YEAR REGATHERING THE
SAME INFORMATION.
SAME INFORMATION. BUT AS I SAID, I THINK THERE IS
AFTER DIFFICULTIS’
AFTER DIFFICULTIS’ DIFFERENT REASONS FOR LOOKING AT
THESE THINGS.
THESE THINGS. CONGRESS HAS A CONSTITUTIONAL
OBLIGATION, CHECKS AND BALANCES,
THEIR CONSTITUTIONAL AUTHORITY
AND RESPONSIBILITIES MANDATES
THAT THEY HAVE THESE HEARINGS,
AND THAT THEY DO IT IN A
RESPECTFUL WAY, NOT TO INTERFERE
WITH THE ONGOING CRIMINAL
INVESTIGATION.
INVESTIGATION. >> KATHY, SOME OF THE NAMES ON
THE LIST INCLUDED JAY SEKULOW,
FOR INSTANCE, THE PRESIDENT’S
LAWYER.
LAWYER. DOES HE HAVE TO COMPLY WITH THE
SUBPOENA TO PROVIDE DOCUMENTS
GIVEN THAT THERE IS
ATTORNEY/CLIENT PRIVILEGE?
ATTORNEY/CLIENT PRIVILEGE? I’M WONDERING WHAT THE
ROADBLOCKS ARE.
ROADBLOCKS ARE. >> THERE ARE A NUMBER OF
ROADBLOCKS.
ROADBLOCKS. IT’S NOT ONLY HIS PRIVILEGE.
HE’S AN ATTORNEY, THERE IS A
JOINT DEFENSE AGREEMENT.
UNTIL A CLIENT WAVES OR A COURT
WAVES, HE’S OBLIGATED TO FOLLOW
THAT PRIVILEGE.
THAT PRIVILEGE. >> CONGRESS CAN’T HAVE THAT
WAIVED --
WAIVED -- >> I THINK IT’S GOING TO BE
DIFFICULT.
DIFFICULT. IF THEY DO, THEY CAN COMPEL
TESTIFY TESTIMONY BECAUSE THE
LAWYER HAS TO FOLLOW AN ORDER OF
COURT OR AN ORDER OF CONGRESS.
NO LAWYER WOULD VIOLATE THAT
KNOWINGLY AND FLIPPANTLY.
AND JAY SEKULOW WILL NOT DO
THAT.
THAT. BUT I THINK HE WOULD TAKE IT TO
THE LEGITIMATE COURTS --
JUDICIAL COURT, MOVE TO QUASH
THE SUBPOENA, MOVE TO NARROW IT,
MOVE TO DO SOMETHING BEFORE HE
WOULD PRODUCE DOCUMENTS THAT HE
BELIEVES ARE COVERED BY THE
ATTORNEY/CLIENT PRIVILEGE OR
JOINT DEFENSE PRIVILEGE.
SAME THING WITH THE FBI.
AS INTERESTING AS IT IS -- A
DEFENSE LAWYER, 50ID LOVE TO
HAVE THE FBI HAVE DOCUMENTS TO
BE SUBPOENAED.
BE SUBPOENAED. IF YOU’RE IN A DEFENSE CASE, YOU
HAVE TO COMPLY WITH THE TOUEY
REGULATIONS.
REGULATIONS. YOU HAVE TO MAKE A SHOWING TO A
COURT BEFORE YOU APPLY FOR THE
DOCUMENTS.
DOCUMENTS. IN THIS CASE THEY’LL HAVE A LAW
ENFORCEMENT PRIVILEGE.
ENFORCEMENT PRIVILEGE. THEY’LL SAY IT’S PROTECTED,
WE’RE PROTECTING A CRIMINAL
INVESTIGATION.
INVESTIGATION. WE SHOULDN’T BE REQUIRED TO TURN
THESE DOCUMENTS OVER.
THERE’S ANOTHER ONE SOME PEOPLE
MAKE CLAIM, THERE IS AN ACTIVE
PRODUCTION PRIVILEGE.
PRODUCTION PRIVILEGE. EVEN IF YOU HAVE DOCUMENTS, YOU
HAVE A 5th AMENDMENT PRIVILEGE
NOT TO TESTIFY AND IN LIMITED
CIRCUMSTANCES YOU CAN SAY MY
DOCUMENTS -- MY TAX RETURNS,
THAT SHOULD BE PRIVILEGED.
ONE OF THE THINGS THAT IS CLEAR
HERE, THIS IS FULL EMPLOYMENT
FOR LAWYERS WEEK.
THERE WILL BE A LOT OF PEOPLE
REACHING OUT TO GET COUNSEL
RIGHT NOW.
RIGHT NOW. AND CONGRESS IS A LITTLE
DIFFERENT AN MAN THAT MOST OF US
ARE USED TO.
THERE ARE DIFFERENT RULES AND
DIFFERENT STANDARDS YOU HAVE TO
APPLY.
APPLY. I LOOKED AT THE COVER LETTERS OF
THE SUBPOENAS -- NOT SUBPOENAS,
REQUESTS.
REQUESTS. I NOTICED A LOT OF THEM, THEY
SAID WE CAN CUT A LOT OF YOUR
TIME OFF.
TIME OFF. GIVE US WHAT YOU PRODUCED TO THE
SPECIAL COUNSEL’S OFFICE OR ANY
OTHER LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCY
THAT’S REQUESTED THE DOCUMENTS.
THAT’S KIND OF INTERESTING
BECAUSE AS A LAWYER, THAT’S WORK
PRODUCT PRIVILEGE.