MELBER NOT HERE. ALI VELCHER.
ALI VELCHER. >>> PRESIDENT TRUMP CONSIDERING
DENYING BRIEFINGS TO FORMER
PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA.
WHAT EXACTLY HAS BEEN TOLD TO
BOB MUELLER ABOUT KEY MOMENTS
THAT COULD FORM AN OBSTRUCTION
CASE AND AGAIN IGNORED REPORTERS
QUESTIONS ACT HIS CONVERSATIONS
WITH MUELLER.
WITH MUELLER. >> WHY DID YOU SPEAK SO LONG TO
THE SPECIAL COUNSEL, MR. McGANN.
>> DID YOU CONFIDE YOU THOUGHT
THE PRESIDENT WOULD BETRAY YOU?
>> DO YOU REGRET THAT DECISION?
>> NOS QUESTIONS AFTER THE "NEW
YORK TIMES" REVEALS McGANN SPOKE
TO MUELLER’S TEAM FOR 30 HOURS.
TRUMP’S LAWYERS HAVE A LIMITED
ACT OF WHAT HE SAID THEY ONLY
REALIZED AFTER THE "NEW YORK
TIMES" REPORTED ON HIS
INTERVIEWS THIS WEEKEND.
THE WHITE HOUSE IS GOING INTO
DAMAGE CONTROL, TRUMP TWEETING
HE ALLOWED McGANN TO TESTIFY AND
INSISTING HE’S NOT QUOTE A JOHN
DEAN TYPE RAT.
RUDY GUILIANI DOWNPLAYED THE
WHOLE STORY.
WHOLE STORY. >> WE HAVE A GOOD SENSE,
OBVIOUSLY, OF WHAT MR. McGAHN
TESTIFIED TO.
TESTIFIED TO. >> YOU DON’T KNOW 100% OF WHAT
HE TESTIFIED TO TO MR. MUELLER?
>> I THINK THROUGH JOHN DOWD WE
HAVE A PRETTY GOOD SENSE OF IT.
>> BUT McGAHN WAS REPORTEDLY
WORRIED TRUMP WAS SETTING HIM UP
TO TAKE A FALL FOR ANY POTENTIAL
WRONGDOING SO HE DECIDED TO BE
COMPLETELY OPEN AND TOLD THEM
ABOUT SOME EVENTS THEY DIDN’T
KNOW ABOUT LIKE TRUMP’S EFFORTS
TO FIRE MUELLER, ALL THAT AS
GUILIANI CONTINUED TO PUSH BACK
AGAINST TRUMP TESTIFYING AND
WENT VIRAL WITH THIS MOMENT.
>> I’M NOT GOING TO BE RUSHED
INTO HAVING HIM TESTIFY SO THAT
HE GETS TRAPPED INTO PERJURY.
WHEN YOU TELL ME THAT, YOU KNOW,
HE SHOULD TESTIFY BECAUSE HE’S
GOING TO TELL THE TRUTH AND HE
SHOULDN’T WORRY, THAT’S SO SILLY
BECAUSE IT’S SOMEBODY’S VERSION
OF THE TRUTH, NOT THE TRUTH.
>> TRUTH IS TRUTH.
>> NO.
>> NO. TRUTH ISN’T TRUTH.
THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED
STATES SAYS, I DIDN’T.
>> TRUTH IS THE TRUTH -- MR.
MAYOR, DO YOU REALIZE -- THIS IS
GOING TO BECOME A BAD MEME.
>> DON’T DO THIS TO ME.
>> IN A MOMENT I WILL SPEAK TO
TEXAS CONGRESSMAN WHO SERVES ON
THE HOUSE INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE
BUT BEGIN WITH THE FORMER
COUNSEL TO THE MAYOR OF NEW YORK
CITY AND JOHN FLANNERY.
I SHOULD BE CLEAR YOU WERE NOT
FORMER COUNSEL TO THAT FORMER
MAYOR OF NEW YORK CITY.
WE CROSS ADELINE INTO -- WELL
INTO WEIRD AT WHICH POINT.
TRUTH IS NOT THE TRUTH.
>> ALL I KEEP THINKING IS, IF
THIS AS YOUR ATTORNEY YOU’RE
TREATING AS YOUR "SPIN DOCTOR"
MAYBE WHAT YOU NEED IS A SHRINK.
THIS IS REALLY NOT GOOD
LAWYERING.
LAWYERING. WE HAVE TO REMEMBER A COUPLE
THINGS ABOUT RUDY GUILIANI.
I MEAN IT WHEN I SAY HE’S MORE
OF A "SPIN DOCTOR" THAN A
LAWYER.
LAWYER. HE’S NOT SPINNING WELL BUT OUT
THERE AS THE FRONT PERSON TO
ESSENTIALLY LAY OUT THE
ARGUMENTS THE TRUMP
ADMINISTRATION WANTS THE
AMERICAN PEOPLE TO BELIEVE, NOT
SO MUCH WHAT HE WANTS THE
PROSECUTORS TO BELIEVE.
HE’S SIGNALING TO THE PEOPLE
EVEN THOUGH DONALD TRUMP HAS
SAID REPEATEDLY HE WANTS TO TALK
TO MUELLER AND WANTS TO
PARTICIPATE IN THE INTERVIEW AND
BEEN COOPERATIVE, NONETHELESS HE
WON’T DO IT AND THE REASON IS
BECAUSE HE WILL BE TRAPPED IN
PERJURY, A REALLY BIZARRE LEGAL
ARGUMENT TO MAKE BECAUSE YOU
CAN’T BE TRAPPED IN PERJURY IF
YOU’RE NOT PERJURING YOURSELF.
YOU CAN HAVE A DISPUTE ABOUT
WHAT THE FACTS ARE.
YOU CAN HAVE COMEY SAYING ONE
THING AND DONALD TRUMP SAYING
SOMETHING DIFFERENTLY.
SOMETHING DIFFERENTLY. THAT IN AND OF ITSELF IS NOT
PERJURY.
PERJURY. TO USE THAT AS AN ARGUMENT TO
SAY MY CLIENT WILL BE SOMEHOW
TRAPPED IS NOT LEGALLY
SUPPORTABLE.
SUPPORTABLE. I WILL TELL YOU ONE THING,
GUILIANI WAS TELLING THE TRUTH
WHEN HE SAID THE TRUTH IS NOT
THE TRUTH BECAUSE HE HAS NOT
BEEN TELLING IT VERY FREQUENTLY.
>> JOHN, LET’S TALK ABOUT THE
TRUMP ADMINISTRATION OR DONALD
TRUMP’S LAWYERS, REALLY, SEAMING
TO BE CAUGHT OFF GUARD BY THE
EXTEND TO WHICH DON McGAHN SPOKE
TO THE SPECIAL PROSECUTOR.
HERE’S A QUOTE FROM THE "NEW
YORK TIMES" SAYING MR. TRUMP WAS
RATTLED BY THE TIMES REPORT, THE
PRESIDENT OBSESSED WITH THE ROLE
THAT JOHN W. DEAN, THE WHITE
HOUSE COUNSEL RICHARD M. NIXON
PLAYED AS AN INFORMANT IN
WATERGATE BY THE NOTION HE DID
NOT KNOW WHAT MR. McGAHN HAD
SHARED.
SHARED. THE PRESIDENT DIDN’T INVOKE
EXECUTIVE PRIVILEGE AND ALLOWED
DON McGAHN TO SPEAK AND IT IS
SAID HE THOUGHT THE PRESIDENT
WOULD THROW HIM UNDER THE BUS
AND GOT OUT TO TELL HIM WHAT HE
KNOWS.
KNOWS. >> I DON’T KNOW THERE WAS ANY
EXECUTIVE PRIVILEGE APPLIED
HERE.
HERE. THE THING ABOUT THE ATTORNEY
GENERAL PRIVILEGE, HE REPRESENTS
THE OFFICE OF THE PRESIDENT AND
MR. TRUMP, DISHONORING THAT
OFFICE, I THINK HIS OBLIGATION
WOULD BE TO PROTECT THE OFFICE
BY DISCLOSING WHAT HE KNEW.
FOR INSTANCE, YATES CAME TO HIM,
ACTING AG AND SAID FLYNN HAS
COMMITTED A CRIME.
YOU SHOULD KNOW THAT.
DID HE PASS THAT ON TO TRUMP.
WE HAD MEETINGS THAT VIOLATED
THE INVESTIGATIVE PROTOCOL,
JARED KUSHNER WOULD SIT WITH
TRUMP AND McGAHN OBJECTED TO
THAT.
THAT. HE WAS PUT IN A DIFFICULT
POSITION BECAUSE TRUMP, WHEN HE
WENT TO FIRE COMEY, CONSULTED
WITH McGAHN AND McGAHN WAS ASKED
TO FIRE MUELLER.
I THINK THAT COULD TAKE 30
HOURS.
HOURS. THAT THESE GUYS CAN’T FIGURE OUT
WHAT HE WOULD BE TALKING ABOUT
IS BEYOND BELIEF.
EDWARD BENNETT WILLIAMS USED TO
SAY IF YOU’RE A LITIGATOR, YOU
CAN’T BE A GOOD LITIGATOR UNLESS
YOU’VE GOT A STRONG -- IT LOOKS
LIKE I DON’T KNOW IF GUILIANI
HAS APHASIA OR HE JUST DOESN’T
HAVE THE ENERGY TO WORK AND
STUDY THE FACTS.
>> RIGHT.
>> RIGHT. >> HE’S LIKE AN ASSIST TO THE
PROSECUTION AND THE WORLD
UNDERSTANDING THERE’S A
TRANSPARENCY RIGHT TO TRUMP
TELLING US LIES ON A DAILY
BASIS.
BASIS. IT’S NO SURPRISE HE DOESN’T KNOW
WHAT TRUTH IS.
SOMEWHERE ALONG IN HIS LIFE
TRUTH WENT THIS WAY AND HE WENT
THAT WAY.
THAT WAY. IT’S EVIDENT IN EVERY
PERFORMANCE HE MAKES ON BEHALF
OF TRUMP.
OF TRUMP. >> HE HAS A NEW ONE, MAIA, AND
MAYBE HE WAS LISTENING TO YOU.
DONALD TRUMP HAS JUST SPOKE
WITHIN REUTERS AND WAS ASKED IF
HE WOULD TAKE AWAY MUELLER’S
SECURITY CLEARANCE.
SECURITY CLEARANCE. SAID HE HASN’T GIVEN IT A LOT OF
THOUGHT.
THOUGHT. THAT WASN’T A NO.
I HAVEN’T GIVEN IT A LOT OF
THOUGHT AND REPORTED HE DECLINED
WHETHER HE WOULD DO AN INTERVIEW
WITH MUELLER’S TEAM.
SPEAKING TO MUELLER’S VERSIONS
IN THE RUSSIA PROBE COULD BE, AS
YOU SAID, A PERJURY TRAP.
HERE’S THE ICING ON THE CAKE,
HOPE YOU’RE LISTENING TO THIS
ONE.
ONE. DONALD TRUMP SAID HE STAYED OUT
OF THE MUELLER PROBE AND DOESN’T
HAVE TO AND COULD RUN IT IF HE
WANTED TO.
WANTED TO. >> THAT IS INTERESTING.
>> THAT’S DEFINITELY
INTERESTING.
INTERESTING. >> THE PERSON BEING INVESTIGATED
FOR WHETHER HE VIOLATED THE LAW
IS INVESTIGATING WHETHER HE
VIOLATED THE LAW IS A PRECEDENT.
>> I WANT TO BRING IN A
CONGRESSMAN CASTRO, ON THE HOUSE
INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE.
INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE. THIS IS HIGHLY PROBLEMATIC,
PEOPLE WENT FROM THINKING THE
PRESIDENT’S BEHAVIOR WITH
RESPECT TO JOHN BRENNAN WAS
PUNITIVE, PETTY, VEN --
VINDICTIVE, IT’S MORE IMPORTANT
THAN THAT.
THAN THAT. IF THE PRESIDENT IS TALKING
ABOUT KING-LIKE POWERS, HE
CROSSED A LINE SAYING I COULD
RUN THE INVESTIGATION INTO
MYSELF IF I WANTED TO.
THAT SENDS A CHILL DOWN OUR
REPUBLICAN SPINES.
REPUBLICAN SPINES. >> THE RHETORIC ITSELF FOR A
DEMOCRACY IS SCARY.
THOSE WORDS BETTER JUST STAY AS
RECORDS AND RHETORIC AND THE
PRESIDENT BETTER NOT MAKE A
SINGLE MOVE TO FIRE BOB MUELLER.
IF HE DOES THE CONGRESS SHOULD
MOVE IMMEDIATELY TO IMPREACH THE
PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES.
>> IMPEACH.
>> IMPEACH. >> CONGRESSMAN, WHEN YOU’RE
HEARING THIS STUFF, FOR PEOPLE
THAT DON’T FOLLOW IT THAT
CLOSELY, NOT UNDERSTANDING WHERE
THIS IS GOING, THE FACT THIS IS
GETTING MORE AND MORE SERIOUS
EVERYDAY.
EVERYDAY. LAST WEEK, THE PRESIDENT NEEDED
TO CHANGE THE NARRATIVE OFF
OMAROSA, SO HE GOES WITH THE
JOHN BRENNAN THING DATED JULY
26th.
26th. HE WAITED THREE WEEKS TO DO
THAT.
THAT. HE HAS A BAG OF TRICKS MEANT TO
BE DISTRACTING AMERICANS.
INCREASINGLY WE’RE TALKING ABOUT
THINGS HE’S WORKING AROUND
ESTABLISHED PRINCIPLES AND
ESTABLISHED NORMS.
ESTABLISHED NORMS. AT SOME POINT, WHERE DO AMERICAN
PEOPLE LOOK FOR RELIEF.
>> I MEAN THE ULTIMATE ANSWER IS
THE NOVEMBER 2018 ELECTION, THE
MIDTERM ELECTION.
MIDTERM ELECTION. THAT IS THE ULTIMATE ANTIDOTE TO
WHAT WE’RE SEEING FROM DONALD
TRUMP.
TRUMP. YOU HAVE TO ELECT A DEMOCRATIC
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES AND
CONGRESS THAT CAN BE A CHECK ON
THIS PRESIDENT.
THIS PRESIDENT. >> JOHN, WHAT DO YOU MAKE ON
THESE COMMENTS THE PRESIDENT
JUST MADE?
JUST MADE? >> WHAT I MAKE OF THEM IS HE IS
ACTUALLY NOT LIVING UP TO HIS
OATH.
OATH. HE SPEAKS AS IF ANY INDIVIDUAL
POWER HE HAS IS LIMITLESS, WHEN
IN FACT HE IS CIRCUMSCRIBED BY
THE LAW AND CONSTITUTION.
IF HE’S MAKING SELF-SERVING
JUDGMENTS AND FIRING PEOPLE
INVESTIGATING HIM, HE IS
VIOLATING A FUNDAMENTAL NOTION
OF DUE PROCESS.
A PERSON CAN’T BE A JUDGE IN HIS
OWN MATTER AND CAN’T BE IN
CHARGE OF HIS OWN INVESTIGATION.
IT’S A BASIC PRINCIPLE THAT GOES
BACK TO MERRY OLD ENGLAND AND
IMPEACHABLE AMONG THE OTHER
THINGS HE’S DONE.
WHAT HE’S DONE IN THE JUSTICE
DEPARTMENT ALREADY TO TRY TO
UNDERMINE THE CREDIBILITY OF
PEOPLE WHO ARE HIS ACCUSERS OR
INVESTIGATORS JUST PUTS HIM IN
THE JACKPOT SEAT FOR
IMPEACHMENT.
IMPEACHMENT. I WOULD HOPE WE WOULD INDICT HIM
INSTEAD.
INSTEAD. THE OBSTRUCTION IS TRANSPARENT.
THERE MAY BE MORE THAT MUELLER
HAS THAT PROVES EVEN MANY MORE
THINGS.
THINGS. I THINK IT’S IRONIC, UNLIKE JOHN
DEAN, McGAHN IS NO RAT, AN
HONEST MAN.
HONEST MAN. JOHN DEAN WOULD BE THE FIRST TO
SAY HE HAD IMPLICATED HIMSELF.
McGAHN HAS DONE EVERYTHING HE
COULD AND MADE HIMSELF A GOOD
WITNESS BY NOT INVOLVING HIMSELF
IN THE COVER-UP OF THE CRIME, HE
RESISTED IT.
RESISTED IT. >> McGAHN MADE IT CLEAR HE DOES
NOT REPRESENT THE PRESIDENT.
BUT CALLING CALLING THE MUELLER
TEAM THUGS, TRIED TO DISCREDIT
MUELLER AND KEEPS TALKING ABOUT
THIS ANGRY GROUP OF DEMOCRATIC
THUGS.
THUGS. AT SOME POINT, THE PRESIDENT’S
POLL NUMBERS AREN’T MOVING DOWN
DESPITE THE INCREASINGLY
DESPERATE MOVES, THE SENSE HE’S
GETTING CORNERED INTO THIS WHITE
HOUSE.
HOUSE. WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF IT?
>> I MAKE A COUPLE THINGS OF IT.
ONE IS THERE ARE SOME AMERICANS
WATCHING REGULARLY AND
CONSTANTLY ALL THE NEWS THAT IS
COMING FORWARD WITHOUT REGARD TO
WHAT POSITION THEY HAVE AND
WATCHING VERY CLOSELY EVERY STEP
OF THIS PROCESS.
THERE ARE MANY AMERICANS WHO ARE
JUST GOING ALONG WITH THEIR
LIVES, TRYING TO GET THROUGH
THEIR DAY-TO-DAY, TRYING TO SAVE
THEIR HOUSES OR EARN ENOUGH
MONEY TO PUT THEIR KIDS THROUGH
SCHOOL WHO SIMPLY ARE NOT
WATCHING ALL THE FACTS UNFOLD,
ARE HEARING A LOT OF RHETORIC ON
A LOT OF DIFFERENT SIDES AND ARE
SIMPLY SAYING, I’M OVERLOADED, I
THINK THIS IS SENSATIONALISTIC,
I WANT TO WAIT AND SEE.
THAT DOESN’T MEAN THAT’S WHERE
THEY WILL STAY, THAT IS NOT
WHERE THEY WILL SAY.
I THINK WE HAVE TO UNDERSTAND
NOT ALL OF US GET ALL THE
INFORMATION FROM THE SAME
SOURCES AND NOT PAYING ATTENTION
TO IT IN ALL THE SAME WAYS.
I EXPECT THAT WILL CHANGE AS WE
GET DEFINITIVE ANSWERS OUT OF
THIS INVESTIGATION RATHER THAN
SITTING AND SPECULATING LIKE
MANY OF US MUST BECAUSE WE DON’T
HAVE ALL THE FACTS ROBERT
MUELLER AND HIS TEAM HAS.
>> WE HAVE THE TOP OF THAT
ICEBERG.
ICEBERG. >> WE HAVE THE TOP OF THAT
ICEBERG.
ICEBERG. EVERYTHING SAID ON THIS PROGRAM
IS INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT ABOUT
OUR NORMS.
OUR NORMS. THAT’S A VERY ABSTRACT CONCEPT
TO A LOT OF PEOPLE TRYING TO