REALLY APPRECIATE YOUR BEING
WITH US TODAY.
>> THANK YOU, ANDREA.
>> CONNECTICUT DEMOCRATIC
SENATOR CHRIS MURPHY SERVES ON
THE FOREIGN RELATIONS COMMITTEE
AND JOINS ME NOW, AND HAS BEEN A
LEADING VOICE ON UKRAINE
MULTIPLE TRIPS THERE OVER THESE
YEARS.
SENATOR, THANK YOU VERY MUCH, I
WANT TO START WITH AN UPDATE TO
WHAT WE WERE JUST DISCUSSING
WITH DEPUTY SECRETARY SHERMAN
BECAUSE WHEN WE INTERVIEWED HER
ABOUT A HALF HOUR AGO, THE
MOSCOW EMBASSY HAD NOT TWEETED
THAT NO ACKNOWLEDGMENT THAT THEY
WERE WARNED BY THE RUSSIANS AS
THE RUSSIAN FOREIGN MINISTRY HAS
SAID THAT THIS WAS THE FIRST
STEP TOWARDS SEVERING RELATIONS
OVER THE PRESIDENT CALLED
VLADIMIR PUTIN A WAR CRIMINAL,
BUT THE EMBASSY TWEETED THAT
AMBASSADOR SULLIVAN COMPLAINED
TO THE RUSSIANS ABOUT THE LACK
OF CONSULAR ACCESS TO DETAINEES,
ESPECIALLY THOSE IN DETENTION,
AND THAT INCLUDES, CLEARLY,
BRITNEY
BRITTNEY GRINER.
THAT IS THE STATE OF PLAY ON
THAT. YOUR REACTION TO THE
DISPUTE OVER THEIR ANGRY
RESPONSE TO THE PRESIDENT
CALLING VLADIMIR PUTIN A WAR
CRIMINAL.
>> WELL, VLADIMIR PUTIN IS IN A
VERY DANGEROUS CORNER RIGHT NOW.
PRIOR TO THIS INVASION MANY OF
US WORRIED THAT PUTIN HAD BEEN
SECLUDED IN HIS BILLION DOLLAR
DACHA IN SOCHI, GETTING NO
ADVICE OR VERY BAD ADVICE, BEING
TOLD THAT HE WAS GOING TO BE
GREETED ADDS
GREETED AS A LIBERATOR IF HE RAN
AN ARMY INTO UKRAINE AND KYIV.
I THINK HE ULTIMATELY WAS, IN
FACT, GETTING BAD ADVICE OR NO
ADVICE BECAUSE EVERYTHING HAS
GONE WRONG SINCE HE COMMENCED
THIS INVASION, AND HE IS BEING
LEFT WITH VERY FEW GOOD OPTIONS
AT THIS POINT.
SO I WORRY HE'S NOT MAKING SOUND
DECISIONS TODAY, AS HE DIDN'T
MAKE A SOUND DECISION WHEN HE
DECIDED TO INVADE.
IT WOULD NOT BE A SOUND DECISION
TO BREAK OFF DIPLOMATIC
RELATIONS WITH THE UNITED
STATES.
WHETHER WE LIKE IT OR NOT, WE
HAVE TO HAVE THE ABILITY TO
COMMUNICATE.
OUR TWO NATIONS REMAIN THE TWO
MOST SIGNIFICANT NUCLEAR SUPER
POWERS, AND WE NEED TO HAVE A
DIALOGUE TO MAKE SURE THAT THIS
CONFLICT IN UKRAINE DOESN'T
ESCALATE INTO A GLOBAL NUCLEAR
STANDOFF.
LET'S SEE WHAT HAPPENS OVER THE
COURSE OF THE NEXT FEW DAYS.
JOHN SULLIVAN IS A VERY CAPABLE
DIPLOMAT, AND WILL HOPE THAT
ULTIMATELY COOLER HEADS PREVAIL,
AND WE CAN KEEP OUR EMBASSIES
OPEN SO THAT WE CAN AT LEAST
HAVE A MODICUM OF DECONFLICTION
DIALOGUE TO MAKE SURE THINGS
DON'T GET EVEN WORSE THAN THEY
ALREADY ARE IN UKRAINE.
>> AND FOCUSING ON THE WHOLE
ISSUE OF THE ATROCITIES, THE
OBVIOUS WAR CRIMES THAT WE'RE
SEEING EVERY DAY, HERE'S
SECRETARY OF STATE EARLIER THIS
MORNING AT THE HOLOCAUST MUSEUM WHERE HE WAS DECLARING THAT THE
WHERE HE WAS DECLARING THAT THE
ACTION BY THE JUNTA IN BER MAURM
MYANMAR AGAINST THE MUSLIM
ROHINGYA, IT TOOK FIVE YEARS TO
REACH THAT DETERMINATION.
THIS IS WHAT HE HAD TO SAY ABOUT
UKRAINE.
>> AS WE MEET THE RUSSIAN
GOVERNMENT CONTINUES TO WAGE ITS
UNPROVOKED BRUTAL WAR ON
UKRAINE.
EACH DAY BRINGS MORE HARROWING
ATTACKS, MORE INNOCENT MEN,
WOMEN AND CHILDREN KILLED.
THE KREMLIN HAS TRIED TO JUSTIFY
THIS WAR BY FALSELY CLAIMING
IT'S INTERVENING TO STOP
GENOCIDE, ABUSING THE TERM THAT
WE RESERVE FOR THE GREATEST
ATROCITIES, DISRESPECTING EVERY
VICTIM OF THIS HEINOUS CRIME.
>> THE ADMINISTRATION HAS BEEN
SLOW, SAY CRITICS TO DECLARE
THAT PUTIN IS A WAR CRIMINAL.
39 OTHER STATES, OTHER NATIONS,
ALREADY MADE THAT DETERMINATION.
NOT A LEGAL DETERMINATION BUT
SAID IT VERY CLEARLY.
WHY DOES IT TAKE THE UNITED
STATES SO LONG TO GO THROUGH
THIS PROCESS, ESPECIALLY NOW
WITH ALL THE REALTIME VISUAL
EVIDENCE?
>> WELL, PRESIDENT BIDEN AND
SECRETARY BLINKEN HAVE BEEN, YOU
KNOW, VERY CLEAR ABOUT THEIR
BELIEF THAT VLADIMIR PUTIN HAS
COMMITTED WAR CRIMES.
I UNDERSTAND THAT THIS IS
ULTIMATELY A LEGAL STANDARD --
>> JUST IN THE LAST FEW DAYS,
WITH ALL DUE RESPECT, SENATOR,
JUST SINCE THURSDAY AND FRIDAY
THERE WERE A LOT OF VERY CAREFUL
STATEMENTS, LEGALISTIC
STATEMENTS UP UNTIL THEN.
>> IT IS A LEGAL STANDARD,
ULTIMATELY.
I MEAN, TO CONVICT AN INDIVIDUAL
OF WAR CRIMES YOU NEED A BODY OF
EVIDENCE, AND WHAT I HEARD THE
ADMINISTRATION SAYING PRIOR TO
LATE LAST WEEK IS THAT THEY WERE
PUTTING TOGETHER THAT BODY OF
EVIDENCE SO THAT THEY COULD MAKE
A CASE THAT WAR CRIMES HAVE BEEN
COMMITTED.
I MEAN, THIS IS AN OPEN AND SHUT
CASE AT THIS POINT.
I MEAN, PUTIN HAS CHANGED
STRATEGIES.
HE NO LONGER BELIEVES THAT HE
CAN TAKE KYIV THROUGH A
CONVENTION THAT WILL MILITARY
INVASION, AND SO NOW HE HAS
DECIDED TO PURSUE A DIFFERENT
PATH.
HE'S GOING TO MOVE TOWARDS A
GENOCIDE
GENOCIDE STRATEGY IN WHICH HE
ATTACKS AND KILLS AS MANY
UKRAINIAN CIVILIANS AS POSSIBLE
SO AS TO BRING ZELENSKYY TO THE
NEGOTIATING TABLE SIMPLY TO STOP
THAT SLAUGHTER OF INNOCENTS.
THAT IS UNCONSCIONABLE.
IT WILL ULTIMATELY CAUSE THE
UNITED STATES TO GET MORE DEEPLY
INVOLVED IN THIS WAR, TO STOP
THAT BRUTALITY, AND IN MY MIND,
AND NOW I BELIEVE IN THE
PRESIDENT'S MIND, THERE'S NO
QUESTION THAT THIS CONSTITUTES
WAR CRIMES.
>> WHAT SHOULD THE U.S. DO IF
PUTIN WERE TO USE CHEMICAL
WEAPONS AGAINST THE PEOPLE OF
UKRAINE?
I THINK WE NEED TO MAKE IT CLEAR
TO PUTIN THAT AS HIS TARGETING
OF CIVILIANS INCREASES SO WILL
OUR COMMITMENT TO UKRAINE'S
DEFENSE.
I DON'T KNOW THAT IT MAKES SENSE
RIGHT NOW TO TELEGRAPH TO PUTIN
EXACTLY WHAT THOSE STEPS WILL
BE, BUT WE WANT TO MAKE SURE
THAT OUR INVOLVEMENT IN THE WAR
IS PROPORTIONAL TO PUTIN'S
TACTICS, AND IF HE STARTS USING
CHEMICAL WEAPONS, THEN WE ARE
GOING TO HAVE TO CONSIDER A
RANGE OF OPTIONS AT OUR
DISPOSAL.
THAT ULTIMATELY IS PRESIDENT
BIDEN'S DECISION, BUT I THINK
YOU WILL HAVE A WILLING CONGRESS
IF CHEMICAL WEAPONS ARE USED AND
HE REQUESTS FROM CONGRESS
AUTHORITY TO GET MORE DEEPLY
INVOLVED IN THIS CONFLICT TO
SAVE LIVES.
>> AND THE ADMINISTRATION IS
SAYING THAT THEY HAVE NO
CONFIRMATION OR DENIAL ABOUT THE
USE OF A HYPER SONIC WEAPON.
WHAT COULD POSSIBLY BE THE
REASON FOR USING A HYPER SONIC
WEAPON IN RELATIVELY SHORT RANGE
AGAINST A BUILDING.
>> YEAH, THERE'S ABSOLUTELY NO
JUSTIFICATION FOR IT, AND I DO
THINK PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, HAVE TO
DO A LITTLE BIT MORE STUDY OF
WHAT TECHNICALLY QUALIFIES AS
HYPER SONIC.
THESE ARE LIKELY EXISTING
MISSILES THAT ARE JUST BEING
DROPPED FROM A PLANE RATHER THAN
FIRED FROM THE GROUND.
THAT'S AN INNOVATION, BUT
FRANKLY NOT A GAME CHANGING
INNOVATION.
I THINK RUSSIA IS GOING TO TRY
TO USE ALL SORTS OF NEW MEANS
AND MECHANISMS OVER THE NEXT FEW
WEEKS TO TRY TO SCARE THE
UKRAINIANS TO THE NEGOTIATING
TABLE BECAUSE THEY NO LONGER
HAVE A CLEAR PATH TO TAKE MAJOR
CITIES LIKE KHARKIV AND KYIV.
WHAT YOU ARE SEEING IS A RAPID
REALTIME REORIENTATION OF
RUSSIAN STRATEGY BECAUSE THE
STRATEGY THEY HAVE BEEN BUILDING
FOR MONTHS PRIOR TO THE INVASION
FAILED.
IT FAILED.
AND SO AN INCREDIBLY WEAK RUSSIA
IS TRYING TO RECALIBRATE IN
THESE SORT OF SHOW OFF MOVES
LIKE FIRING MISSILES FROM
PLANES, RATHER THAN FROM THE
GROUND IS DESIGNED TO TRY TO
CHANGE MINDS IN KYIV, TO TRY TO
SCARE THE ZELENSKYY GOVERNMENT.
IT DOESN'T SEEM TO BE HAVING