>>> WELCOME BACK TO "HARDBALL." IT’S BEEN A LITTLE LESS THAN A
WEEK SINCE E. JEAN CARROLL, A
PROMINENT AUTHOR AND FREQUENT
GUEST ON MY OLD SHOW IN THE OLD
DAYS ACCUSED PRESIDENT TRUMP OF
SEXUALLY ASSAULTING HER IN THE
MID-’90s.
MID-’90s. IN AN EXCERPT FROM HER NEW BOOK
PUBLISHED IN "NEW YORK"
MAGAZINE, CARROLL DESCRIBES AN
INCIDENT IN WHICH DONALD TRUMP
ALLEGEDLY ASSAULTED HER AND
FORCED HIMSELF ON HER IN A
DEPARTMENT STORE DRESSING ROOM.
YESTERDAY TWO OF HER FRIENDS
WENT ON THE RECORD WITH "THE NEW
YORK TIMES" TO BACK UP HER
STORY.
STORY. LISA BYRNEBACK AND CAROL MARTIN
RECOUNTED THEIR CONVERSATIONS AT
THE TIME OF THE ALLEGED INCIDENT
WITH CARROLL.
WITH CARROLL. IN THIS CONVERSATION BIRNBACH
DESCRIBED HER CONVERSATION.
>> IT JUST -- IT WAS HORRIBLE.
WE FOUGHT.
WE FOUGHT. AND I SAID LET’S GO TO THE
POLICE.
POLICE. NO.
NO. COME TO MY HOUSE.
NO, I WANT TO GO HOME.
I’LL TAKE YOU TO THE POLICE.
NO.
NO. IT WAS 15 MINUTES OF MY LIFE.
IT’S OVER.
IT’S OVER. DON’T EVER TELL ANYBODY.
I JUST HAD TO TELL YOU.
>> ON TUESDAY OF THIS WEEK, TWO
REPUBLICAN SENATORS SAID THAT
THE ALLEGATIONS SHOULD BE TAKEN
SERIOUSLY.
SERIOUSLY. UTAH SENATOR MITT ROMNEY TOLD
CNN IT’S A VERY SERIOUS
ALLEGATION.
ALLEGATION. I HOPE THAT IT IS FULLY
EVALUATED.
EVALUATED. THE PRESIDENT SAID IT DIDN’T
HAPPEN, AND I CERTAINLY HOPE
THAT’S THE CASE.
IOWA SENATOR JONI ERNST, WHO
RECENTLY REVEALED SHE WAS RAPED
IN COLLEGE TOLD CNN OBVIOUSLY
THERE HAS TO BE ADDITIONAL
INFORMATION.
INFORMATION. THEY NEED TO INTERVIEW HER.
THEY NEED TO VISIT WITH HIM.
I’M NOW JOINED BY E. JEAN
CARROLL, AUTHOR OF "WHAT DO WE
NEED MEN FOR."
THAT’S A PROVOCATIVE TITLE RIGHT
THERE, WHICH COMES OUT NEXT
TUESDAY.
TUESDAY. THANK YOU.
THANK YOU. I DON’T MEAN TO BE JOCULAR.
I HAVEN’T SEEN YOU IN A WHILE,
JEAN.
JEAN. IT’S GREAT TO HAVE YOU ON.
NOT FOR THIS REASON, BUT PERHAPS
FOR THE BOOK.
LET ME ASK YOU ABOUT THIS.
WHAT DID YOU MAKE OF MITT
ROMNEY, WHO IS A HARD GUY TO
READ SOMETIMES IN TERMS OF HIS
VALUES AND HIS POLITICS COMING
OUT AND SAYING WE NEED TO HAVE
SOME KIND OF LOOK INTO THIS
CASE.
CASE. HE IS TAKING IT SERIOUSLY.
>> CHRIS, IT WAS HEARTENING.
IT BUOYED UP MY SPIRIT.
I LOVE THAT HE SPOKE OUT.
AND I’M SO HAPPY TO SEE YOU
AGAIN, CHRIS.
AGAIN, CHRIS. WE GO BACK TO THE DAY, YOU KNOW.
>> AMERICA’S TALKING.
>> WHAT?
>> WHAT? YEAH, AMERICA’S TALKING.
AND YOU LED US.
YOU WERE JUST BRILLIANT.
YOU WERE A COLUMNIST.
REMEMBER?
REMEMBER? >> SURE.
>> SURE. SAN FRANCISCO EXAMINER AND
CHRONICLE, YEAH, THOSE DAYS.
>> AND ROGER AILES PUT YOU ON
THE AIR.
THE AIR. >> THAT’S RIGHT.
LET ME ASK YOU ABOUT THIS --
WILL YOU COOPERATE IF YOU’RE
COOPERATE BY THE SENATE EITHER
JONI ERNST OF IOWA OR MITT
ROMNEY OF UTAH, WOULD YOU
COOPERATE WITH THE SENATE
INQUIRY OR ANY INQUIRY INTO THE
FACTS OF THE CASE?
>> ABSOLUTELY.
>> ABSOLUTELY. 100%.
100%. >> LET ME ASK YOU A COUPLE OF
QUESTIONS IN MIND.
HAVE YOU SINCE THE INCIDENT
OCCURRED HAVE IN ANY WAY
CONTACTED OR BEEN CONTACTED
THROUGH MUTUAL FRIENDS OR
WHATEVER?
WHATEVER? HAS TRUMP SHOWN ANY KNOWLEDGE OF
THIS THING HAPPENING TO YOU?
>> PARDON ME?
WHAT DO YOU MEAN?
>> ANY MEANS THROUGH
CONVERSATION OR TO SAY HELLO FOR
ME, YOU KNOW HOW IT WORKS.
HAS HE SHOWN ANY RECOGNITION AS
YOU AS A HUMAN BEING?
>> NO.
>> NO. >> NONE?
>> NONE? ZERO.
ZERO. >> NO.
>> NO. >> HAVE YOU BEEN ABLE TO -- I
WAS TRYING TO THINK ABOUT WHY
YOU CAME FORWARD NOW.
AND I WAS THINKING MAYBE IT WAS
IN THE PROCESS OF GIVING ADVICE
TO WOMEN WHO HAVE HAD TERRIBLE
SITUATIONS, AND YOU’VE BEEN
THEIR COUNSELORS.
THEIR COUNSELORS. >> YOU NAILED IT.
THAT’S EXACTLY IT.
SINCE JUDY KANTNER AND MEGAN
TOOHEY HIT "THE NEW YORK TIMES"
FOR THE HARVEY WEINSTEIN STORY,
MY COLUMN WAS FLOODED WITH WOMEN
ASKING ME IF THEY SHOULD GO
FORWARD AND REPORT THEIR BOSS,
SHOULD THEY CALL THE POLICE
ABOUT THEIR SON-IN-LAW, YOU
KNOW.
KNOW. WHO DO THEY SPEAK TO.
E. JEAN, PLEASE HELP ME.
I DON’T KNOW WHAT TO DO.
AND THEN I OF COURSE FELT
TERRIBLE BECAUSE I’VE HAD THIS
SECRET ALL THESE YEARS AND HAVE
NOT MADE A PEEP ABOUT IT.
AND HERE THESE WOMEN ARE WHO I
LOVE, I LOVE THESE WOMEN.
I LOVE MY CORRESPONDENTS.
AND I JUST HADN’T BEEN STRAIGHT
WITH THEM.
WITH THEM. I JUST HADN’T BEEN STRAIGHT.
SO I HAD TO COME FORWARD.
>> I’M TRYING TO THINK ABOUT --
AND I THINK I UNDERSTAND.
BUT I’M JUST GOING TOE GUESS.
YOU TELL ME IF I’M RIGHT.
YOU’RE NOT NOBODY.
YOU’RE A FIGURE OF PEOPLE KNOW
YOUR NAME.
YOUR NAME. THEY KNOW YOU’RE A PROFESSIONAL.
YOU KNOW THE MEDIA, HOW IT
WORKS.
WORKS. YOU’RE ABLE TO GO THROUGH THE
ROPES OF THE MEDIA.
YOU KNEW HOW TO DO IT.
IF YOU WANTED TO PUT THIS STORY
OUT YOU COULD HAVE DONE IT.
IS IT BECAUSE YOU DIDN’T WANT TO
BE KNOWN AS THE WOMAN WHO WAS
RAPED?
RAPED? >> I’M NOT A VICTIM.
I’M A WOMAN WHO WAS WENT THROUGH
VERY SHORT PERIOD OF TIME WHERE
AN EVENT HAPPENED, AND I THINK
OF IT AS A FIGHT.
AND SO I WANTED -- I COULD HAVE
COME FORWARD, CHRIS, FLANKED
WITH ATTORNEYS, MAYBE FAMOUS
ATTORNEYS WHO REPRESENTED WOMEN
WHO SUFFERED SEXUAL VIOLENCE.
I COULD HAVE, YOU KNOW, SPOKEN
TO A PRESS CONFERENCE WHICH
WOULD HAVE BEEN A HORRIBLE
THING.
THING. BUT I WANTED TO CONTROL MY OWN
STORY.
STORY. I WANTED TO GET IT DONE ON
PAPER.
PAPER. I WANTED TO CONTROL EVERY WORD
OF IT, AND THEN I GAVE IT OUT.
AND I THINK THAT IS A GOOD WAY
FOR WOMEN TO PROCEED.
>> YOU KNOW, I WAS THINKING WHAT
YOU SAID ABOUT YOU WANTED TO SAY
IT WAS NOT ANYTHING LIKE
ROMANCE, ANYTHING LIKE WHAT WE
THINK OF AS SEX POSITIVELY.
ENJOYABLE, SAY, IN THAT SENSE.
IT WAS LIKE YOU DIDN’T -- YOU
DIDN’T WANT IT TO SEEM LIKE
DOMINIQUE FRANKLIN IN "THE
FOUNTAINHEAD" WHERE SHE IS RAPED
BY THE GUY AND SAID THIS IS
GREAT.
GREAT. REMEMBER THAT SCENE THAT AYN
RAND WROTE?
RAND WROTE? >> IT’S EMBLAZONED ON MY BRAIN.
THE LEAD-UP TO THE SCENE WAS
VERY FLIRTATIOUS, DELIGHTFUL.
WE WERE BANTERING BACK AND
FORTH.
FORTH. WE WERE TELLING JOKES.
I WAS DELIGHTED HAD RUN INTO
DONALD TRUMP, AND HE HAD ASKED
FOR MY ADVICE ABOUT BUYING A
PRESENT.
PRESENT. AND, CHRIS, TO ME IT WAS FUNNY.
IT WAS A FUNNY SCENE THAT WE
WOULD END UP IN THE LINGERIE
DEPARTMENT.
DEPARTMENT. TO ME IT WAS JUST GETTING BETTER
AND BETTER, AND I WAS GOING TO
HAVE A GREAT STORY TO DINE OUT
ON.
ON. AND IT WAS GOING TO BE, YOU
KNOW.
KNOW. >> I GET IT.
I WATCH THAT.
LET ME ASK ABOUT FIFTH AVENUE.
THIS PRESIDENT HAS GIVEN US
EVIDENCE TO BELIEVE YOUR STORY
DESPITE THE -- THE ACCOUNT YOU
HAVE GIVEN TO OTHER PEOPLE
CERTAINLY GIVES IT VALIDITY AND
GENUINENESS AND TRUTH.
DONALD TRUMP SAID I CAN SHOOT
SOMEBODY ON FIFTH AVENUE AND GET
AWAY WITH IT.
HERE HE COMMITTED THIS SEXUAL
ASSAULT ON FIFTH AVENUE.
IT’S UNBELIEVABLE.
IT’S UNBELIEVABLE. >> I HAVEN’T THOUGHT OF THAT.
THAT’S EXACTLY RIGHT.
YOU KNOW, I BASICALLY WAS SHOT
IN THAT DRESSING ROOM.
HE BASICALLY SHOT ME.
EVER SINCE THAT EVENT HAS
HAPPENED, I’VE NEVER -- I’VE
NEVER BEEN WITH ANOTHER MAN.
>> YEAH, I READ THAT.
>> AND THAT’S BEEN 25 YEARS.
SO HE SHOT SOMETHING IN ME, EVEN
THOUGH I JUMPED BACK UP AND MY
CHIN IS UP AND I’VE BEEN
SMILING, AND I’VE CERTAINLY
MOVED ON, HE DID SHOOT.
HE DID KILL SOMETHING IN ME.
>> E. JEAN, THANK YOU.
>> THANK YOU, CHRIS.
>> YOU ARE -- YOU ARE A SURVIVOR