﻿Mr SPEAKER: The House comes to Questions for Oral Answer.
Question No 1, Andrew Little.
ANDREW LITTLE (Leader of the Opposition) to the PM:
Does he stand by his statement, “There’s actually quite legitimate
"business in NZ for servicing foreign trusts”?
Rt Hon JOHN KEY (PM): Yes. As Michael Cullen said in 2005,
when the disclosure rules were being developed:
“The government has sought to develop policy that works
"for all concerned, one that enables NZ to co-operate
"with other tax jurisdictions while not disrupting
"the legitimate financial transactions of foreign trusts.”
[MEMBERS INTERJECT]
Andrew Little: Are foreigners able to use NZ - based trusts
to dodge tax overseas?
Rt Hon JOHN KEY: Anyone can use the NZ tax rules.
There are obviously mismatches around the world, and we see that,
potentially, with multinationals and others. But, interestingly enough,
when it comes to ensuring that people are paying their tax,
including foreign trusts, the House might like to know
that of the Panama Papers data release, of the 500,000 times
that Mossack Fonseca is linked to either a company, a trust,
an individual, or a reference, 200—less than 200 are foreign trusts
registered in NZ. And, by the way, the Inland Revenue Department (IRD)
has cross-referenced them, and all of them are disclosed to ensure
that they pay their fair share of tax. [Interruption]
Mr SPEAKER: Order! Before I call a further supplementary question,
I just want a little less interjection from my left.
Andrew Little: How does he reconcile his claim
that his close personal adviser had assured him that he had no links
with Mossack Fonseca with today’s revelations that show
that Mr Whitney has—[Interruption]
Mr SPEAKER: Order! I sought some further cooperation from my left.
I am now asking for the same sort of cooperation—less barracking
through the question as it is being delivered—from my right.
Would Andrew Little like to start that question again.
Andrew Little: Thank you, Mr Speaker—
Hon Paula Bennett: Sorry, sir, for laughing at his joke.
Andrew Little: Yeah, yeah. You have got plenty to laugh at, Paula—
plenty to laugh at on your side. [Interruption]
Mr SPEAKER: Order! If I do not get any assistance from my right-hand side,
then I will be looking to ask a member to leave.
Andrew Little: How does he reconcile his claim that his close personal adviser
had assured him that he had no links with Mossack Fonseca
with today’s revelations that show that Mr Whitney has had dealings with that firm?
Rt Hon JOHN KEY: Firstly, I have got no responsibility for Mr Whitney
or any other NZer. But I stand by the statements that I have made
in relation to Mr Whitney. I think incrimination by insinuation
could be a very dangerous game, because I took a moment
to just look in the database, and guess who is a beneficiary of one of the trusts?
Oh, Greenpeace International. And guess who else is mentioned—
Mr SPEAKER: Order! [Interruption] Order! The PM will—[Interruption]
Order! The PM might think that he can go on, but when I stand to my feet
he certainly cannot go on. [Interruption] Order! If I have to ask—[Interruption]
Order! No, the member will resume his seat. If I have to ask either the PM
or the Deputy PM to leave, I will not hesitate to do so.
Andrew Little: Does he see any issue with the people lobbying the IRD
to protect foreign trusts having connections to Mossack Fonseca?
Rt Hon JOHN KEY: Firstly, I reject the last part of it. But I do not see
any issue with a lobby group speaking to the Government.
In fact, I am sure that the education sector and teachers
speak to the education Minister. I am sure those who are interested
in health and safety speak to the workplace. I am sure
the Council of Trade Unions talks to the Labour Party.
Here is breaking news: people who work in an industry might actually want
to talk to the Government about it. If you are going to hang them for that,
there are going to be a lot of hangings taking place.
[MEMBERS INTERJECT]
Andrew Little: Did he personally push through the zero rating of tax
on foreign funds in 2010 over the objection of officials
from the Ministry of Economic Development or, put another way,
does he recall saying: “I have told Gerry to deliver me a paper
"that has zero rating of funds”?
Rt Hon JOHN KEY: No.
Andrew Little: I seek leave to table a copy of an article from the NZ Herald
of 2 December 2010—[Interruption]
Mr SPEAKER: Order! When a point of order is raised,
it is to be heard in silence, and that particularly applies
to noise coming from my back right-hand side. But if it is
a newspaper article, then members can find it if they want.
Grant Robertson: You did it, John.
Mr SPEAKER: Order! Is Mr Robertson ready?
Andrew Little: Is he satisfied with the Government’s oversight
of foreign trusts, when Mossack Fonseca used a bankrupt Elvis impersonator
to provide a sham address for a player in an Iraqi bribery scandal,
all without his Government noticing?
Rt Hon JOHN KEY: Yes, it is true.
There is an Elvis impersonator that is named, but there is also
an impersonator for the Leader of the Opposition asking questions about it.
[MEMBERS INTERJECT]
Andrew Little: Does he oppose NZers and multinationals using
another country’s tax laws to dodge NZ tax, given that he allows
foreigners to do the same thing here?
Rt Hon JOHN KEY: I cannot talk for Greenpeace, Amnesty International,
and the Red Cross, but what I can say is that every country
has a different tax system. There is no global tax system,
and there are mismatches around the world—that is true.
The Government is working on trying to resolve those issues through the OECD
and we have been leading a lot of that work. And I hope
we are successful in that, because that will help, actually,
robustness around the world. But NZ’s tax laws are very well set.
[MEMBERS INTERJECT]
Andrew Little: Why does he say that NZ is falling down
the Corruption Perceptions Index on his watch?
Rt Hon JOHN KEY: There are a number of factors,
but NZ is ranked extremely highly—[Interruption]
We are third, I think—[Interruption]
Mr SPEAKER: Order! PM, there is no point in answering a question asked
if they do not want to hear the answer.
Question No 2.
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