Joining me
now is 2024 presidential candidate
Vivek Ramaswamy.
Thank you so much for joining me
this morning, sir.
I want to start with
what I began the program with,
which is this racist shooter
killing three black people
in Jacksonville yesterday.
What is your reaction to the shooting
It is such a tragedy
and my heart goes out to those families.
This should not be happening
in the United States of America
and it is wrong.
The reality is we have a mental health
epidemic in this country.
There are reports
that this particular individual,
the perpetrator,
was indeed evaluated
for mental health deficiencies as well.
And I think we need to have
to have the courage in this country
to bring back a practice
of putting back
psychiatrically ill people
who pose a risk to their communities.
Into psychiatric institutions,
not just drugging them up,
but faith based approaches
and other approaches
that fill our longing
for purpose and meaning in this country.
I think it is
just a shame that we even have
mass shootings like this, be it
the one that happened in Florida,
be it
the recent one,
the Nashville shooter
in a Christian school
killing six in a school.
We have to address
that mental health epidemic
and we need leaders
with the courage to do it.
But my heart goes out to those families,
and I hope something like this
never happens again.
Mental
health is one aspect
of of these shootings.
And apparently we're still learning
a lot about what happened.
The facts are still coming out.
Also,
this was very much
apparently racially motivated.
The sheriff
there said point blank
that this shooter had had
manifestos coming in three manifestos
and said
specifically that
he went to this dollar store
with the intent of killing black people.
I think that is heinous and deserves
to be called out for what it is.
The reality is we've created
such a racialized culture in this country
in the last several years
that right is the last few burning
embers of racism were burning out.
We have a culture in this country
largely created by media
and establishment
and universities and politicians
that throw kerosene on that racism.
And I can think of no better way
to fuel racism in this country
than to take something away
from other people on the basis
of their skin color.
I've been saying that for years,
and I think that is driving,
sadly, a new wave of anti-black
and anti-Hispanic racism in this country.
I think the right way
forward is
if we want to stop hate
and discrimination on the basis of race,
let's stop
discriminating on the basis of race
and see what unites us as Americans.
Because I do not think
this kind
of racial division
in any division is good
for us as the United States.
I believe that
there are a lot of people of color
in this country
who don't think it was just lasting
embers of racism,
but that a lot more work had to be done,
particularly given the history of the
systemic racism
in this country with slavery and beyond.
I want to ask you
about a comment that you made
about white supremacy in Iowa on Friday
I've never once encountered that yet.
I'm sure the
I'm sure
the boogeyman, white supremacist exists
somewhere in America.
I've just never met him, never seen one,
never met one in my life. Right.
Maybe I'll meet a
maybe I'll meet a unicorn sooner.
And maybe those exist to
So just because somebody
hasn't encountered one doesn't mean that
the notion of white supremacy
doesn't exist as a threat in America.
What do you think goes through the minds
of the families
of the three victims
in yesterday's shooting
when they hear you say
that white supremacy
is basically a fantasy
I'm sure they're grieving for their loss,
and I don't want to politicize
those victims.
Dana, this is a very sensitive situation
where we should have nothing
but foremost
respect for those victims
and not bring them
into partizan politics.
But I was responding to a question
where someone asked me
what have
what racism have I
experienced in recent years?
And I answered honestly,
most of that racism
has come from the modern left.
It's happening
during the course of this campaign.
Kara Swisher calling me Ramos Smarmy
the other day
and reveling in making twists
of my last name.
People effectively
reducing me to the color of my skin
and my attributes.
That comes today from the modern left.
But the reality is
this is part of a deal
in this country does still
exist in the United States.
I acknowledge that all forms
of racial
animus exist in the United States,
including fringe branches.
I mean, it's clearly
what was at the head of this
mentally deranged
individual responsible for this shooting.
Yes.
But I think there are many forms
of mental derangement
that cause us to see one
another on the basis of our skin color
and our attributes.
And I think what we need to revive
Dana, and it's my job as the leader,
hopefully as the next president
to do this,
to revive our doctrine
of E Pluribus Unum.
Not just celebrating our diversity
in our skin deep attributes,
but celebrating
what unites us across that diversity.
That's what we've forgotten
in the United States of America.
Our true
strength is the set of ideals
that unite us.
That's my job to revive
as our next president.
And I think
that the next generation in particular
is so starved for that starved
for commonality,
starved for a nation
that is unified,
bigger than the sum of its parts.
That's what we need to recreate
in this country.
And to those who say the remedy to past
discrimination is present discrimination,
I say no.
The right remedy is actually abandoning
all discrimination
and moving forward
with colorblind meritocracy
in the United States of America.
You took it to to another level
on Friday.
In addition to the comment we played,
you took issue with comments
from Congresswoman Ayanna Pressley.
She reportedly said, quote,
We don't need any more Brown faces
that don't want to be a brown bore,
a brown voice about that.
You said
these are the words
of the modern
grand wizard of the modern KKK.
You know,
I'm sure the KKK was responsible
for more than a century's
worth of horrific lynchings,
rapes, murders of black people.
How in any way
are the views you're talking
about comparable
to the views and atrocities
committed by the KKK?
What I said is
the grand wizard of the KKK
would be proud
of what they would hear her say,
because there's nothing more racist
than saying that your skin color predicts
something about the future.
You didn't just say this
or you say they would be proud.
You said
these are the words of the modern
grand wizard of the modern KKK.
It is the same spirit.
You're right about that, Dana.
I think it is the same spirit to say
that I can look at you
and based on
just your skin color
that I know something
about the content of your character,
that I know something
about the content of the viewpoints
you're allowed to express.
For Ayanna Pressley to tell me
that's because of my skin color,
I can't express my views.
That is wrong.
It is divisive.
That is driving hate. That is a debate.
This is divided.
That is a debate breaking point.
That is a debate
that is that
is based on nonviolent discussion
that you just said.
You're using rhetoric which she
said she's using rhetoric.
There is that's one thing.
And another thing is to say
that she represents
and she is a modern version of a KKK,
which, as you know, was dedicated
to the subjugation
and violence against black people.
How how on earth is she
a modern day
and let's be intellectually
honest of organization.
Let
let's be intellectually honest
and get to the heart
of what this debate ought to be about.
There is a world view
that says that the remedy to past
discrimination is present discrimination
that if you're black or brown,
you have to have
a particular point of view.
That's from Abraham Kennedy.
That's from Ayanna Pressley,
the people I quoted
in my speech yesterday.
But there's a different
intellectually honest.
There's no socialism of who you are
when you have to be able
to have your own opinion with
let's have the debate. Okay.
Can you
have that intellectually
ongoing discussion
with that kind of rhetoric?
Yes, I can deny, because the point
the point I'm highlighting
is that
even the people who in good spirit,
we all agree
that the KKK was an awful organization
that is a toxic stain
in our national history.
So given that we can start from
that point of agreement
now, that allows us to say, well,
who actually sounds more like that?
Organization today?
The people who are calling
for more racial discrimination
on the basis of skin color.
So, yes,
I think that is a legitimate sounding,
very provocative discussion.
That we need to have
in this country point.
And I think the reality just about right
or after
speak of the Lynch people,
they murdered people, they raped people,
they burned there and that was wrong.
Simply that was obviously wrong.
So wrong.
So, again,
that is obviously a
if you want to have
an intellectual discussion,
do you think that maybe
comparing her to the grand wizard
and and the notion of what she said
to being a modern leader of the KKK
was maybe a step too far?
Or you stand by what you said
I stand by
what I said to
provoke an open and honest discussion
in this country,
because there is a gap,
Dana, between what people will say
in private today
and what they will say in public.
I think we need to close that gap.
I think we need to have real
open, honest,
raw conversation as Americans.
That is our path to national unity.
And there are many Americans today
who are deeply frustrated
by the new culture, just like racism.
That's really racism and discussion.
And we need to have that debate
in the open.
Dana, I think not so sure how frustrating
it is getting the media do of picking on
picking on some fringe comment
in the context of a broader context
that I was offering. It in a speech.
All right.
You just said that your comment was,
let's have the courage
to confront the meat of that.
You know, I'm saying you drew
in his speech as
I described that I describe you picking
one fringe comment from a long speech
that I gave to duck debate
from the real issue that I think
you don't want to have, Dana,
because I think you probably agree
with me on this, that this is
I think that this debate
leading politics think that this debate
is dividing us on the basis of race.
And I want to have
I think
this debate
is fascinating
and interesting
and opening and important.
What I did was to
explain to our viewers
that you were asked a question
and you took it to a point
where you called
the sitting member of Congress
who is black,
who was having discussions about race
calling her
the modern grand wizard of the KKK.
And I'm just not sure how that's
open and honest discussion.