- Welcome back to another Q and A Monday
here on the Metal Roofing Channel,
I am Thad Barnette from Sheffield Metals
- Sorry, I really messed it up.
- No, you're fine.
- Delayed response, I am so sorry.
(hard rock)
- I am Thad Barnette from Sheffield Metals
and welcome to another Q and A Monday
here on the Metal Roofing Channel.
Today I've got Julianne Calapa and Jeff Hock returning,
and I've got Lori Reynolds on the phone,
she's calling in from Starbucks.
How are you doing, Lori?
- [Lori] Glug glug glug glug, yum!
I've got my charger today, thank you very much!
- And Lori is part of Sheffield's Technical Department.
You wanna tell us a little bit about what you do
at the company and your industry experience, Lori?
- [Lori] Oh, sure. Happy to.
For those of you that see me on LinkedIn,
my moniker is I period Love period Metal period.
That just about sums it up.
But, essentially, for a couple of decades now,
I have been promoting architectural metal and loving it,
and now have my opportunity to do so
direct to the architects and kinda behind the scenes
reviewing plans and specs for Sheffield
and I'm thrilled to do it. Great, great company.
Every day is a new challenge.
- Cool. Well, I'm excited to have you on, Lori.
Today, we are talking about engineered systems.
So, first, Jeff and Lori, why don't you tell me
a little bit about what engineered systems are.
What makes a system engineered?
- Well, an engineered system is a pedal profile
that has been tested over a certain deck sub-straight
or sub-straight period, whether it be
a solid sub-straight or open-framing.
Tested includes: uplift testing,
whichever is applicable for the deck sub-straight,
water penetration testing, air infiltration testing,
could be water submersion depending on the application,
fire raidings, hail raidings, impact testings,
wind-driven rains testing,
it all depends on which testing you need
per your local building codes.
So, an engineered system is one that has been tested
to meet the criteria of the design for that area.
- [Lori] And also, that we as a company and a culture,
hold our products to those standards.
You know? And we don't deviate.
- Right.
- Yup. That's a good thing to remember.
Because, as a buyer, it's really important
to know, to have that peace of mind
that the company that you're purchasing from
stands behind what they're selling.
They stand behind the tests,
so that you can really build that customer trust.
- And you know the product's gonna perform
once it's been installed on your project,
whether it's a homeowner or a commercial building owner,
you know it's going to meet the requirements you put forth.
- So is an engineered system more common
in a residential? Or a commercial? Or does it not matter?
- Well, you'll definitely see more engineered systems
in commercial roofing because you have an architect
that has a specification, and that lists
all the requirements that they need to meet.
Most homeowners don't have an architect for their building,
or for their house, so there isn't really
a specification that you need to meet.
But, engineering, I believe, is important,
whether it's residential or commercial.
You wanna know whatever you're having
put on your house or building is gonna perform.
- [Lori] And I can also share from a personal perspective,
I've owned three houses in my life.
Three homes that all had metal roofs.
Two were on ridge-tops, and the one I'm in right now
is going to be the next evolution
that's going to be engineered.
It'll be better. That's all I'm gonna say (laughs).
But ridge-tops: a lot of exposure to wind.
- What is a ridge-top?
- [Lori] Just a higher point where wind is either
coming up from a valley or down from a higher point,
and across your flat part, which is the top of a ridge,
that sometimes continues on up or goes into a valley.
So very, very, unpredictable winds.
- And it makes sense to have an engineered system
especially in that application
because of that unpredictability.
- [Lori] It will. Yes. Yes. Absolutely.
- Lori, I've got a question here that someone asked:
If a profile is UL listed, does that mean it's engineered?
- [Lori] No! (laughs) No, it does not.
It means it's UL lifted.
And I think I'll let Jeff
take the helm in talking about construction numbers
because I've learned how to...
really explain this even more
but I don't want to take the wind from his sail,
so he can talk about UL construction numbers.
- I have no sail (laughs).
- Take it away!
- A UL-90 construction number is able to be purchased
from Underwriters Laboratories on a specific panel profile.
Basically, a lot of people in the industry all
have the same inch-and-a-half mechanical,
for example, panel profile.
So, instead of everybody going out and testing it,
you can purchase a UL construction number
from Underwriters Laboratories.
Basically, that number says, "If you install it
"exactly per this this UL-90 construction number,
"then we will say that you have a UL-90 rating."
There is no engineered stamp that goes on
an engineering report, there is no actual test
being done on your product, it's just,
"This panel's been around so long
"if you install it per this, we know
"that it should have no problem meeting UL-90."
But there is no actual test performance base
to back up that statement.
Another thing with UL-90 construction numbers is that
a lot of times, in the deck construction,
they do things that aren't exactly
industry-standard as to what you would normally
see on a normal roof installation.
Say it's over a plywood deck.
Usually, you nail down the plywood deck.
A lot of these UL construction numbers
will require you to use Phillips screws.
Or you'll have to caus the seams of the plywood
where they butt up against each other
to stop that air from coming underneath.
Those aren't typical things that people
normally do when installing a roof deck.
So, a lot of times, those items are missed when people
are installing it per that UL 90 construction number.
So, if you put it on, and you don't screw down the deck,
and you don't caus the seams,
if it's a UL 90 construction number,
well, that construction number isn't valid,
because it wasn't installed per the construction number.
When you have manufacturers go out and actually test--
they test per UL 580, which encompasses UL 90--
but they actually build a test-deck
on real world applications, on how it will be installed
in the field, and you get a true UL 90 engineered system.
And then you could take that further, continuing on to
UL 1897, which basically sees how high of a pressure
that panel can reach before it fails.
- And is that what kind of testing
you're gonna be doing next week?
- That is. We're gonna be doing several UL 580 slash 1897
testings along with water penetration and water submersion.
- Can you kinda talk me through that process?
What's that gonna be like?
- For the UL 580 test, we build a 10 by 10 test specimen
based over wood, b-deck, b-deck with iso,
whatever sub-straight it is,
or assembly it is that we're trying to test.
And then we actually install it
how it would be done in the field.
You put down the wood deck, you nail it off per the spacing.
So, in order for that engineering to be valid
you'd have to nail the deck off per what we tested at,
you install the underlayment, and then you install
the panel with the clips at a certain spacing,
depending on what spacing it is that you require at the time
and then they basically try to blow it up
and see how high the pressure can get.
Once you have all 90 stops-- In UL 580
you have UL 30, UL 60, UL 90--
once you get all 90 stops, then it moves
over to the 1897 testing, which basically takes it up
at a certain increment of pressure,
and sees how much it can sustain
before it blows off or has a critical failure.
And you don't use a different test specimen for each class,
you start, it basically works the panel with positive
and negative pressure through UL 30,
then that same test specimen now goes through UL 60,
and then that same specimen goes through UL 90,
so it's been stressed three different times
by the end of the 580 test.
So, you're seeing how it performs,
and you're seeing what it does,
where the failure point is, or if it has any.
Obviously, the tighter your clip spacing,
the better your panel's gonna perform
because it's being held down to the roof deck better.
The wider your clip spacing,
you have a chance of failing earlier.
- And that's the essence of an
engineering system right there, is that testing.
- Right. You're testing how the product is to be applied
and how it can perform once it's installed that way.
- Is there a cost-saving or a cost-difference
between a non-engineered or an engineered system?
- You're not gonna get charged more for engineered system,
Sheffield Metals does engineering,
we don't pass that cost onto the customers.
We provide that as a service to use our products.
Where a cost-increase might come in is
clips being put at a certain distance.
- Okay.
- So, say if it's a non-engineered system,
and the person installing it puts their clips
at three-foot on center, whereas our engineered system,
we put it at two-foot on center.
There's gonna be an increased-cost because
you have an increase of materials.
But, you also have the peace of mind
knowing that if I put my clips at two-foot on center
this is how the panel is gonna perform.
If I put them at three-foot on center
I don't know how, it might perform okay, it might not.
I don't know know because we didn't engineer it.
Other things is whenever you do engineering
you have to use the same clip that you engineered with,
the same fasteners, so it's not--
well, if I put any clip at two-foot on center
it has to be the clip it was tested with.
- Right.
When you've been testing that system
you test it at those particular increments,
so if it's installed at an increment greater than that
then it's no longer that engineered system. That's correct?
- Correct.
- So there's no room for deviation? It's that or nothing.
- Right. Now you can have calculations done.
Say if you test at one foot and four foot,
you can have calculations done to tell you
how it would perform at two foot and three foot,
but you need that closest space,
and you need that furthest space
to be able to come up with how it will perform in between.
- Okay.
- I think that brings us to our last question here--
Actually, you had a question about warranties.
- I did.
- Why don't we talk about that first?
- So, I wanted to know what the difference is
between the two with warranties in mind.
So do they get one warranty more if they're engineered?
Or less? Or how does that work? Or does it matter?
- We require a minimum UL 90 rating
on any of our weather-tight warranty systems.
- Oh, okay.
- We don't warranty systems that aren't engineered at all.
We don't do warranties on residential buildings.
- Okay.
- And honestly, the main reason for that
is: residential buildings are obviously a lot smaller,
we require so many inspections
for our weather-tight warranties,
- You'd be doing it all day.
- By the time you get there and inspect it,
you get back home, it's done.
- Yeah.
- So, the commercial buildings are obviously larger,
you have more time to go out and do the inspections.
But, we require a minimum UL 90 rating,
even if the specification doesn't call for it.
You're gonna install it at a minimum per UL 90
if you're doing it with a tight warranty with Sheffield.
- I think that brings us to our last question:
If you don't provide warranties for residential buildings
or inspect residential buildings,
does that mean residential buildings don't need engineering?
Or should they still consider engineering as a good thing?
- I think every project needs engineering to some degree.
Depending on where-- I mean, whether you're
a commercial building owner or a homeowner,
you still want the same peace of mind
knowing that the product you're gonna be putting
on your building is gonna perform.
- Yeah.
- Now, to the level of engineering
that a commercial building might need per a
residential building? I'm not saying that they're the same.
But, I will say that, especially if you're in a coastal area
or in Florida, obviously Florida has their own set of rules,
you definitely want your building or home engineered
per your geographical location.
You want to make sure it can handle the environment,
normal and extreme atmospheric conditions
that you have in your area. I live in Florida,
we get hurricanes yearly, so everything in Florida
has to be FPC approved at minimum, for the most part.
But, you want to make sure whatever you're putting
on your palace is gonna perform,
and there's one way to do that,
and that's having an engineered system
so you know that it'll meet what you're looking for.
If I go up, and I say, "I think if I put my clips
"at this spacing, you'll be okay."
But I don't have a test with a PE stamp on it
to back it up, then I can't really say that.
- And on our installation episode
we talked about being proactive as a building owner.
What can you do to ensure good installation,
safe and effective installation,
and I think knowing that your system's been tested,
that it's an engineered system,
that's a big step forward as far as being proactive.
- Absolutely. Absolutely.
- On the front end, not the back end.
- Yeah. Yup.
- Yeah, you don't want to find out
after your roof's installed, that,
"Oh, by the way, that's not tested."
- "Just kidding, it might not hold up."
(laughs)
- Cool! Well, thanks everybody for being on the episode,
thanks again to Lori and Jeff from our technical department,
thanks to Julianne. - Thanks!
- Check out her blog on sheffieldmetals.com
Subscribe to the Metal Roofing Channel,
comment with any questions for future episodes of Q and A,
anything else, like I said, check out Sheffield Metals
online, and we'll catch you next time!
- Thanks. - Bye! Thanks.
(hard rock)