Speaker 1: Well, the last 24 hours have been some of the most consequential that we
have had in months. We first heard from the current attorney general, Merrick Garland,
that no one is above the law, that he is open to prosecuting former President Donald Trump. But
then in addition to that, we learned, based on a very interesting report from The Washington Post
that Donald Trump is currently under criminal investigation by the Justice Department.
This was the question, is the Justice Department criminally investigating Donald Trump? Have they
paid attention to the January six committee or to what's going on in Georgia or to whatever else,
and done their own investigation and determined this is worthy, not necessarily of charges,
but of criminal investigation. And the news that broke over the last 24 hours is that the
answer is yes. We're going to look at both of these things. I was going to lead with Garland,
but Garland being open to prosecuting Trump is irrelevant if there's no probe. It now has been
revealed that there is indeed a probe. Washington Post Report. Justice Department investigating
Trump's actions in January six criminal probe. People familiar with the probe said. Investigators
are examining the former president's conversations and have seized the phone records of top aides.
Understand this is already historic. It is not typical that a president leaves office and then
is under federal criminal investigation. Now it may go to absolute nothing. This investigation
may end up in the toilet, flushed 10 to 15 times. But this is already an unprecedented and unique
situation. The Justice Department is investigating Trump's actions as part of its criminal probe
of efforts to overturn the 2020 election, according to four people familiar with the matter,
prosecutors who are questioning witnesses before a grand jury, including two top aides to Vice
President Pence, have asked in recent days about conversations with Trump, his lawyers
and others in his inner circle who sought to substitute Trump allies for certified electors
from some states. Joe Biden won. This is the fake electoral scam. The prosecutors have asked
hours of detailed questions about meetings Trump led in December of 2020 and January 2021.
His pressure campaign on Pence to overturn the election and what instructions Trump gave his
lawyers and advisers about fake electors and sending electors back to the states. The people
said some of the questions focused directly on Trump's on the extent of Trump's involvement
in the fake elector effort led by his outside lawyers, including John Eastman and Rudy Giuliani.
This is major focus, and it appears that a lot of the focus is on the fake elector scheme.
The belief among some legal experts is that that's probably the easiest one to prove, but it is all
very much related generally to Trump's attempt to overthrow the government and to install himself.
The guy who did not win the illegitimate wouldn't even be to say an illegitimate president. He just
wouldn't. He wasn't the president. He didn't win. The article goes on to say
Justice Department investigators in April received phone records of key officials and aides in the
Trump administration, including Mark Meadows, his chief of staff. That effort is another indicator
of how expansive the January six probe had become well before the hearings in June and July. This
is another really important question or answer. I guess we would better say. We were wondering
not only is was there a probe, but did the probe only start because of the January six committee
hearings? And it appears that the answer is no. There was actually a criminal probe of Trump
that started well before that. What do we know about some of the build up to all of this? Well,
Jacqueline Alemany, who works for The Washington Post and was part of breaking this story, appeared
on MSNBC and talked about it. Listen to this. Speaker 2: That's exactly right, Willie. We've
reported that prosecutors who have recently brought in people like Greg Jacobs and Marc Short
and potentially more, we just you know, people were brought up we might not be aware of just yet.
But people who were very close to Mike Pence had firsthand accounts and were witness to
the pressure campaign being applied on him to overturn the results of the election.
Indeed, we're also in the room for other meetings involving some of the constitutional schemes
being put forth by Trump allies, people like John Eastman. Before the president,
they were asked about those interactions. They were asked about meetings in December of 2021
and January of 2020 and December of 2020 and January of 2021. We also know that they were
asked specifically about the pressure being put on Mike Pence, according to sources.
And we also know that these phone records that have been newly reported and obtained by the
Justice Department included phone records from Trump, top Trump aides and Mark Meadows as well.
Someone else who was also in the room for a lot of these really explosive and meetings
that have recently garnered a lot of scrutiny. Speaker 1: All right. So the point here that I
can only make a limited number of times in in our program, but I think needs to be made, as
we all have been to some degree, desensitized by these last many years. And I include myself
in that. But this is not normal. This is extraordinary. These are extraordinary times
that we are living in. The former president is under criminal investigation by the following
administrations. Justice Department. Now, what could be the possible crimes? I've been reading
up on this this morning as a non-lawyer who spoke to some lawyers. There are three possibilities.
The easiest to prove would likely be conspiracy to defraud the United States. This would be over
the fake electors. Sending fake electors would be committing a fraud, as Trump says, on the on the
United States. Other possible crimes. Obstruction of an official proceeding. Now, there are lots of
variations of this, but the one being looked at by the January 6th committee seems to be
1512 C, which theoretically carries up to 20 years in prison. I don't expect that that's
ever going to be Trump's future, partially because he won't live 20 years. And then also
seditious conspiracy is possible. But again, when we anything with the word sedition in it,
the bar to prove criminal intent is a difficult one to overcome. And it's sort of related to why
I know I've said this before, you don't often see perjury charges, even though people do lie
in court all the time. And we will just have to follow it and see. Now, if you weren't sure about
the consequential nature of the midterm election in 2022 and of course, the presidential in 2024,
if you did think that those elections were important before, they are absolutely above
and beyond important now. Trump got away to different impeachments without conviction because
Republicans had the Senate. You have to understand that if control goes back to Republicans in 2022,
a lot of this stuff is completely dead in the water now. Might charges be brought against
Trump before that? Maybe. I don't think so. I don't know. But I would expect Donald Trump to
announce his candidacy very soon. He believes that that would be a way to shield himself
from the criminal probe. Now, if you want me to be honest, if I look at my crystal ball,
I expect that even if there is such an investigation, at some point we will
hear there is really no precedent for charging a former president of the United States. I know I'm
being pessimistic, but that's my crystal ball. But the next question becomes, would it Trump
announcing his candidacy do anything to shield him here? And Merrick Garland says the answer is no