>> Stephen: HEY! WELCOME BACK, EVERYBODY.
LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN,
MY FIRST GUEST IS THE CHIEF WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT FOR
ABC NEWS AND A COANCHOR OF "THIS WEEK."
HE HAS JUST WRITTEN A NEW BOOK, "TIRED OF WINNING: DONALD TRUMP
AND THE END OF THE GRAND OLD PARTY."
PLEASE WELCOME BACK TO "THE LATE SHOW,"
JONATHAN KARL. [CHEERS AND APPLAUSE]
THERE OU GO. JONATHAN!
WON'T YOU PLEASE? WHAT WAS THAT?
♪ ♪ NICE TO HAVE YOU BACK.
ALWAYS ENJOY YOUR REPORT AGE. LAST TIME YOU WERE HERE WAS FOR
YOUR BOOK, "BETRAYAL: THE FINAL ACT OF THE TRUMP SHOW."
NOW YOU HAVE A ANOTHER BOOK CALLED "TIRED OF WINNING:
DONALD TRUMP AND THE END OF THE GRAND OLD PARTY."
I WANT TO FACT-CHECK YOU. RIGHT OFF THE BAT.
I KNOW YOU RESPECT THAT. YOUR LAST BOOK WAS CALLED "THE
TRIAL: THE FINAL ACT OF THE TRUMP SHOW."
WHY IS THERE ANOTHER BOOK, JOHN CARL.
IN THE LAST BOOK, WAS EVERYTHING A LIAR JUST THE TITLE?
>> Jonathan: APPARENTLY THERE WAS AN UNPLANNED SEQUEL IN THE
WORKS THAT I DO KNOW ABOUT. >> Stephen: WERE YOU SURPRISED
THERE WAS MORE TO THE TRUMP SHOW?
>> Jonathan: I THOUGHT THAT WAS THE FINAL ACT.
MAYBE WOULD HAVE ANOTHER CURTAIN CALL.
NOBODY WITHOUT YOU WOULD GO FROM THERE AND SEE HIM MOUNT A
COMEBACK TO ONCE AGAIN BECOMING THE DOMINANT FIGURE IN THE
REPUBLICAN PARTY. HE LEFT WASHINGTON IN DISGRACE,
DEFEATED, IMPEACHED, ON THE VERGE OF BEING PROSECUTED.
THE IDEA THAT HE WOULD COME BACK.
>> Stephen: THERE IS NO WAY BALTIMORE WILL COME BACK
THERE IS NO STORIES WITHOUT EVER
HAPPENS. THE BOOK IS GETTING A LOT OF
LAWS. HERE'S WHAT ONE GUY HAD TO SAY
ABOUT YOUR BOOK. HE SAID ""ABC NEWS" REPORTER
JONATHAN CARL JUST WROTE ANOTHER BAD BOOK.
SO LITTLE TALENT. SOME PEOPLE HAVE IT.
SOME PEOPLE DON'T. BECAUSE WHAT YOUR RESPONSE.
HOW DO YOU LIKE THE REVIEW? >> Jonathan: IT WAS GOOD.
IT WAS ONE THING SPECIFICALLY THAT SET HIM OFF.
IT WASN'T THAT I FOUND OUT THAT HIS TOP STRATEGIST WAS USING
CONFEDERATE CODE WORDS FOR THE CONFEDERATE PLOT TO ASSASSINATE
ABRAHAM LINCOLN TO DESCRIBE TRUMP'S CAMPAIGN THEME.
>> Stephen: WHAT WAS THAT? >> Jonathan: HIS TOP
STRATEGIST STEVE BANNON USED THE CONFEDERATE CODE WORDS TO
DESCRIBE THE ASSASSINATION PLOT ON LINK INTO DESCRIBE TRUMP'S
CAMPAIGN. IT WASN'T THAT.
THAT'S NOT WHAT GOT HIM UPSET. IT'S NOT WHAT HE CONTESTED.
IT WAS AND THAT I TALKED ABOUT WACO, TEXAS, AND THE
SIGNIFICANCE OF HIM STARTING HIS CAMPAIGN IN WACO, TEXAS, THAT
PLACE THAT INSPIRED THE OKLAHOMA CITY BOMBING IN 1995.
THAT'S NOT WHAT HE TOOK ISSUE WITH.
IT'S NOT THAT I FOUND SO MANY PEOPLE CLOSE TO HIM LITERALLY
THINK HE WAS MENTALLY UNSTABLE. IT'S NOT ANY OF THAT.
THE THING THAT SET HIM OFF WAS AN ANECDOTE ABOUT KIM KAR
KIM KARDASHIAN. IT'S TRUE.
THAT'S THE ONE THING. >> Stephen: WHAT IS THE THING?
WHAT DID SHE DO? DID YOU BREAK THE INTERNET?
>> Jonathan: THERE ARE A COUPLE LITTLE KIM KARDASHIAN --
KIM KARDASHIAN HAS TAKEN ON THIS BECAUSE OF CRIMINAL JUSTICE
REFORM AND TRYING TO GET PARDONS AND CLEMENCY FOR PEOPLE WRONGLY
ACCUSED. >> Stephen: SURE, WHEN THE
POSITIVE ASPECTS OF THAT& ADMINISTRATION.
>> Jonathan: SHE GOT ALICE JOHNSON FAMOUSLY PARDONED.
AT THE END OF THE TRUMP WHITE HOUSE SHE HAD A LIST OF
PEOPLE SHE FELT DESERVED PARDONS OR CLEMENCY.
HE SAID OKAY. YOU WANT ME TO DO THIS FOR YOU,
GET ME SOME NFL STARS TO COME TO THE WHITE HOUSE.
GET ME SOME NFL STARS. KIM KARDASHIAN, BEING REALLY
DEDICATED TO THE CAUSE, WENT TO HER FRIENDS, NFL FRIENDS.
SHE USED IT TO BE WITH REGGIE BUSH.
SHE KNOWS SOME OF THESE GUYS. THEY ALL REFUSED.
IT WAS AFTER JANUARY 6. NONE OF THEM WANTED TO.
[CHEERS AND APPLAUSE] >> Stephen: GOOD CALL.
>> Jonathan: THE REASON WHY HE WAS SO DESPERATE TO GET NFL-ERS
TO COME, BUILD THE LOGIC OF A PRESIDENTIAL MEDAL OF FREEDOM
AND BILL BELICHICK REFUSED TO CO THE WHITE HOUSE AFTER JANUARY 6.
>> Stephen: ONE OF THE CENTRAL ARGUMENTS OF THIS BOOK, TIRED OF
WINNING. TRUMP'S STORY IS ONE OF FAILURE.
WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY THAT? HE FAILED HIS WAY THROUGH HIS
LIFE FOR FAILURE THAT WE ALLOWED THEM TO BE ELECTED?
FAILURE OF THE G.O.P. NOT HOLDING TO THEIR STANDARDS.
WHERE IS THE FAILURE? >> Jonathan: ELEMENTS OF ALL
THAT. ONE IS VIRTUALLY EVERYBODY WHO
CAME INTO CONTACT WITH HIM IS UP FAILING, THIS INCLUDES PEOPLE
WHO STOOD UP TO HIM WHO TRY TO STOP HIM.
THE REPUBLICAN FIELD IS LITTERED WITH RUINED CAREERS PEOPLE THAT
TRIED TO STOP DONALD TRUMP. IT'S THE PEOPLE THAT WERE CLOSE
TO HIM AND SUPPORTED HIM WHEN IT UP, SOME OF THEM LITERALLY ENDED
UP IN PRISON, ENDED UP SADDLED WITH LEGAL BILLS, LIVES
DESTROYED. HOPE HICKS WHO WAS AS CLOSE TO
HIM AS EVERYBODY, A REALLY POWERFUL MESSAGE, ALL OF OUR
LIVES ARE OVER. WE'LL NEVER GET JOBS AGAIN
EXCEPT FOR WORKING AT A PROUD BOY'S CONVENTION.
IT'S THOSE PEOPLE. IT'S A PROFOUND WAY HE LOST.
HE WON THE GREATEST UPSET VICTORY IN HISTORY OF AMERICAN
POLITICS BUT THEN HE MANAGED TO GO OUT AND LEAVE THE
REPUBLICAN PARTY THROUGH A SERIES OF LOSSES IN EVERY
ELECTION AFTER THAT, SPECIAL ELECTIONS, MIDTERM ELECTIONS,
2020 ELECTION. RUNOFF ELECTIONS.
THE 2020 ELECTION HE LOST NOT JUST TO JOE BIDEN BUT THEN HE
LOST DOZENS OF LEGAL CASES. HE LOST HIS EFFORT TO TRY TO GET
HIS VICE PRESIDENT TO TURN IT OVER.
HE LOST IN HIS EFFORT TO GET CONGRESS TO TRY TO UP IN THE
ELECTION. EVERY EFFORT THEY TOOK ENDED AND
LOST. >> Stephen: IF HE IS SUCH A
LOSER AND HE SPREADS LOSING LIKE A CONTAGION.
HE'S GOT 91 FELONY COUNTS AGAINST HIM NOW, AND I KNOW THIS
IS A BIT OF A MYSTERY. YOU DIDN'T KNOW THERE WOULD BE
ANOTHER BOOK HERE. BUT WHAT DO YOU ATTRIBUTE THE
CONTINUED RELEVANCE OF DONALD TRUMP TWO?
WHY DO YOU THINK HE HAS SUCH A LASTING GRIP ON A PARTY THAT HAD
MANY OPPORTUNITIES TO END THE SPECTER OF HIM, WHETHER IT HAD
BEEN EITHER IMPEACHMENT OR JUST OF KEVIN McCARTHY HADN'T GONE
DOWN THERE AND KISS THE RING. >> Jonathan: FIRST OF ALL IS
IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER LESS THAN A YEAR AGO HE WAS TRAILING
RON DeSANTIS IN THE POLLS. ONE "WALL STREET JOURNAL" POLL.
20 POINTS OR SO. >> Stephen: IT WAS FLIPPED.
>> Jonathan: PART OF WHAT'S HAPPENED IS PEOPLE LOOK BACK.
THERE'S ANXIETY IN THE COUNTRY. PEOPLE HAVE ECONOMIC ANXIETY.
THERE IS DISCONTENT WITH JOE BIDEN.
I THINK THERE'S SOME SUPERFICIALLY SENSITIVE LOOK, IF
WE CAN ONLY GO BACK TO FOUR YEARS AGO, THE WORLD WAS
RELATIVELY AT PEACE. INFLATION WAS LOW.
I THINK THERE IS SOME OF THAT. THAT'S WHY I WROTE THIS BOOK.
BECAUSE OF PEOPLE ARE GOING TO GO INTO THIS NEXT ELECTION
THINKING ABOUT THAT, THEY ALSO NEED TO BE THINKING NOT JUST
ABOUT WHAT TRUMP WAS WHAT HE IS NOW IN WHAT HE IS PROPOSING AND
PLANNING TO DO, WHAT A SECOND TRUMP ADMINISTRATION WOULD LOOK
LIKE. I DON'T THINK PEOPLE HAVE COME
TO TERMS WITH THAT AT ALL. >> Stephen: WE HAVE TO TAKE A
QUICK BREAK. WE'LL BE RIGHT BACK WITH MORE
JONATHAN KARL, EVERYBODY. STICK AROUND.