ALI, STEPH? >> ALL RIGHT, MARIANA, THANK YOU
SO MUCH.
SO MUCH. MARIANA ATENCIO FOR US AT THE
BORDER.
BORDER. WHILE MIGRANT CHILDREN ARE
LITERALLY DYING IN U.S. CUSTODY,
THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION IS
CLAIMING THEY CAUGHT THOUSANDS
OF TERRORISTS AT THIS BORDER.
AND AS STEPHANIE AND I WERE
SAYING, THAT IS AN ABSOLUTE LIE.
LETS --
LETS -- >> ONE MORE TIME.
>> LET’S TAKE A LOOK AT HOW WE
GOT TO THIS, ALL RIGHT.
JUST DAYS INTO THE NEW YEAR,
PRESIDENT TRUMP CLAIMED THAT
17,000 CRIMINALS WERE TRYING TO
GET ACROSS THE BORDER.
BUT THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT HE
SAID.
SAID. FOR FACT’S SAKE, THE WASHINGTON
POST REPORTS THAT STATISTIC IS
MANGLED.
MANGLED. U.S. CUSTOMS AND BORDER
PROTECTION ENCOUNTERED 16 ERKS,8
PEOPLE CONVICTED OF CRIMES IN
THE UNITED STATES OR ABROAD.
63% OF THOSE PEOPLE SHOWED UP AT
PORTS OF ENTRY.
THAT INCLUDES AIRPORTS,
TRAVELERS, NOT JUST PEOPLE
TRYING TO GET ACROSS THE BORDER.
EVERYTHING THAT IS WRONG IN
AMERICA, DONALD TRUMP SAYS IS
HAPPENING AT THE SOUTHERN
BORDER.
BORDER. A DAY LATER, IN A BRIEFING WITH
BORDER OFFICIALS, PRESIDENT
TRUMP CLAIMED 3,755 KNOWN OR
SUSPECTED TERRORISTS WERE
PREVENTED FROM TRAVELING TO OR
ENTERING THE UNITED STATES BY
DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY.
HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY
KIRSTJEN NIELSEN INCLUDED THIS
NUMBER IN A PRESENTATION TO
CONGRESS, BUT, AGAIN, VERY
MISLEADING.
MISLEADING. IT REFERS TO STOPS MADE BY
DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY
ACROSS THE GLOBE, MAINLY AT
AIRPORTS.
AIRPORTS. NIELSEN DID NOT BREAK DOWN HOW
MANY PEOPLE SHOWED UP AT
AIRPORTS VERSUS LAND CROSSINGS.
AT THE WHITE HOUSE ON FRIDAY,
NIELSEN CLAIMED CUSTOMS AND
BORDER PATROL STOPPED OVER 3,000
SPECIAL INTEREST ALIENS TRYING
TO COME INTO THE COUNTRY THROUGH
THE SOUTHERN BORDER.
THE D.H.S. SPOKESPERSON STATED
THIS FIGURE WAS SEPARATE,
BELIEVE IT OR NOT, FROM THE
3,755 FIGURE THAT WE JUST
DISCUSSED.
DISCUSSED. ALL RIGHT.
ALL RIGHT. SO WE HAD ALREADY SAID THAT
THERE WERE 3,755 ON JANUARY 3RD,
AND NOW ALL OF A SUDDEN SHE SAYS
MORE THAN 3,000.
HOWEVER, THIS IS WHERE THINGS
DON’T MAKE SENSE.
THE D.H.S. TESTIFIED TO CONGRESS
BACK IN 2016 THAT SPECIAL
INTEREST ALIENS DO NOT
NECESSARILY HAVE CONNECTIONS TO
TERRORISM.
TERRORISM. AS STEPHANIE POINTED OUT, THEY
OFTEN MEAN THAT THEY HAVE TRAVEL
PATTERNS THAT GO TO COUNTRIES
WHERE YOU GET SECONDARY
SCREENING, OR YOU’RE FROM A
COUNTRY WHERE THERE MAY HAVE
BEEN TERRORISTS OF SOMETIME.
TO SUGGEST THEY ARE TER CYSTS IS
IS A LOT.
IS A LOT. >> WHAT YOU’RE TALKING ABOUT IS
DETAILS.
DETAILS. WHAT SHOULD BE THE MOST TRUSTED
VOICES IN OUR COUNTRY ARE
LOOKING INTO A TV CAMERA AND
SAYING THERE ARE THOUSANDS OF
TERRORISTS WE’RE STOPPING?
>> YEAH.
>> YEAH. BUT YOU CAN SEE HOW THAT WORKS,
RIGHT?
RIGHT? YOU CAN SEE HOW THAT GETS PEOPLE
RILED UP.
RILED UP. JOINING US IS "THE NEW YORK
TIMES" IMMIGRATION REPORTER
CAITLYN DICKERSON.
CAITLYN DICKERSON. CAITLYN, GOOD TO HAVE YOU BACK
HERE.
HERE. YOU WROTE THE PIECE ON TRUMP’S
MIGRANT DETERRENCE STRATEGY.
NEW CHAOS ON THE BORDER.
A CRISIS IS EMERGING AND MIGRANT
SHELTERS AS THE TRUMP
ADMINISTRATION FOCUSES ON AS ONE
OFFICIAL PUTS T HOW WE CAN DETER
RATHER THAN HOW WE CAN HANDLE.
THAT’S FROM YOUR PIECE.
TELL US WHAT THAT MEANS.
>> SO, THIS PIECE DEALS WITH A
SIMILAR THEME TO WHAT YOU TWO
ARE JUST TALKING ABOUT, WHICH IS
SORT OF A FALSE REALITY THAT’S
BEING USED TO DRIVE IMMIGRATION
POLICY.
POLICY. SO WHAT WE HEARD FROM OFFICIALS
ACROSS THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT
WHO WORK IN IMMIGRATION IS THAT
FOR MONTHS, AND SOME CASES OVER
A YEAR THEY’VE BEEN ASKING FOR
HELP TO DEAL WITH THIS BUILDUP
OF FAMILIES ALONG THE BORDER
WHICH WE’VE TALKED ABOUT BEFORE.
THOSE REQUESTS HAVE BEEN DENIED
BECAUSE ALL OF THE FOCUS IS
COMING UP WITH NEW DETERRENT
POLICIES.
POLICIES. WE KNOW FAMILY SEPARATION AND
THE ASYLUM BAN WERE IMMEDIATELY
BLOCKED BY THE COURTS.
THESE NEW POLICIES NOW BEING
GENERATED, POLICIES LIKE MAKING
ASYLUM SEEKERS WAIT IN MEXICO
WHILE THEIR CASES ARE
ADJUDICATED WHICH CAN TAKE
YEARS, OR PLAN TO BUILD VAST
TENT CITIES ALONG THE BORDER,
THESE OFFICIALS WORKING ON THESE
PLANS KNOW THAT THEY’RE EITHER
LIKELY TO END UP BEING
IMMEDIATELY BLOCKED BY COURTS
LIKE OTHERS OR THEY’RE GOING TO
BE SO EXPENSIVE THAT THEY WON’T
BE JUSTIFIABLE TO TAXPAYERS.
BUT THAT DOESN’T MATTER.
THEY’RE UNDER STRICT ORDERS TO
MOVE FORWARD ANYWAY.
AGAIN, UNDER THIS SORT OF FALSE
REALITY THAT WE’RE TALKING
ABOUT.
ABOUT. >> SO WHY DO THEY TELL YOU
THAT’S THE CASE?
IF THEY’RE BEING PUT IN A
SITUATION WHERE THEY’RE
EXECUTING A PLAN THAT’S ONLY
GOING TO CREATE MORE CHAOS, THE
SIN I CAN IN ME WOULD OBVIOUSLY
SAY THAT’S A WHOLE LOT OF
POLITICAL THEATER AT THE EXPENSE
FROM A FINANCIAL STANDPOINT TO
THE U.S. TAXPAYER.
AND THE EMOTIONAL AND PHYSICAL
EXPENSE OF THOSE CUSTOMS WORKERS
AND THOSE MIGRANTS.
SO THAT’S WHAT THE CYNIC IN ME
WOULD SAY.
WOULD SAY. THE OPTIMIST, WHAT ARE THEY
TELLING YOU WHY THEY’RE DOING
THIS?
THIS? >> IT’S HARD TO COME UP WITH AN
OPTIMISTIC WAY OF LOOKING AT THE
FACTS ON THE GROUND.
THEY ARE INDISPUTABLE.
THEY CONFUSING.
THEY CONFUSING. ONE OF THE WAYS I’VE COME UP
WITH MOST RECTLY TO SORT OF
STAY FOCUSED AND HELP PEOPLE
UNDERSTAND -- BECAUSE THEY’RE
TRYING TO KEEP TRACK OF THESE
FACTS AND FIGURES.
THE PRESIDENT IS SAYING ONE
THING, THE PRESS SECRETARY IS
SAYING ANOTHER.
SAYING ANOTHER. THEY’RE NOT TRUE.
I THINK WHEN IT’S IMPORTANT FOR
THIS ADMINISTRATION AND EVERYONE
IN IT TO TOE THE LINE AND TO
CONTINUE REPEATING THESE FACTS
AND FIGURES EVEN IF THEY’RE NOT
TRUE.
TRUE. AND MY TAKE AWAY FROM THE
STATEMENTS YOU WENT OVER EARLIER
ARE WHEN DONALD TRUMP SAYS
"CRIMINAL" HE MEANS "IMMIGRANT."
THAT COULD BE LEGAL OR ILLEGAL.
WHEN HE SAYS "SOUTHERN BORDER"
HE ACTUALLY MEANS YOU’VE COME
INTO THE COUNTRY THROUGH LAND,
THROUGH AIR, THROUGH SEA,
ANYWAY.
ANYWAY. IT’S ALL SOUTHERN BORDER.
WHEN HE SAYS "TERRORIST" HE
ACTUALLY MEANS ANYBODY WHO AT
ANY TIME HAS BEEN WORTHY OF ANY
KIND OF SECONDARY INSPECTION,
AND THAT COULD EVEN BE FOR A
REASON AS SIMPLE AS THE COUNTRY
YOU COME FROM.
SO WE NOW HAVE TO COME UP WITH
TOOLS TO CUT THROUGH WHAT
THEY’RE SAYING.
THEY’RE SAYING. AND I THINK THE REASON THEY’RE
SAYING IT, YOU ASKED ABOUT, IS
THAT THEY’VE GOT TO STAY ON
MESSAGE.
MESSAGE. >> CAITLYN, ONE OF THE EFFECTIVE
TOOLS IS THAT -- YOU REPORT ON
THIS, RIGHT, THERE ARE A HANDFUL
IN THIS COUNTRY OF PEOPLE WHO
DEDICATE THEIR JOURNALISTIC
EFFORTS TO IMMIGRATION.
BECAUSE OF SOMETHING YOU JUST
SAID.
SAID. IT IS ACTUALLY COMPLICATED AND
IT IS ACTUALLY CONFUSING AND WE
HAVE HAD A LEGACY OF THIS IN
THIS COUNTRY WHERE WE TALK ABOUT
A BROKEN IMMIGRATION SYSTEM.
THERE ARE A WHOLE BUNCH OF
PEOPLE WE TALK TO, C.E.O.s, WHO
THINK THE BROKEN IMMIGRATION
SYSTEM THEY CAN’T GET ENOUGH
VISAS FOR ENGINEERS FROM THE
OTHER PART OF THE WORLD.
WE HAVE SO DILUTED AND CONFUSED
THIS CONVERSATION TO EVERYTHING
BEING WRONG WITH AMERICAN
IMMIGRATION AND SAFETY HAS TO DO
WITH THE SOUTHERN BORDER.
HOW DO YOU FIX THIS?
BECAUSE IT DOES SEEM LIKE THE
PRESIDENT AND THAT CROWD IS
DOMINATING THIS CONVERSATION.
>> I THINK IT’S REALLY UP TO US
AS JOURNALISTS AND UP TO READERS
AND VIEWERS UNFORTUNATELY TO DO
A LITTLE BIT OF EXTRA WORK AND
MAKE SURE WE ARE RECAPTURING THE
NARRATIVE.
NARRATIVE. HERE ARE SOME THINGS WE DON’T
TYPICALLY TALK ABOUT, ALI.
TWO-THIRDS OF NEW UNDOCUMENTED
IMMIGRANTS EVERY YEAR ARE PEOPLE
WHO OVERSTAY VISAS.
WE HAVE MORE IMMIGRANTS COMING
EVERY YEAR FROM ASIA THAN FROM
LATIN AMERICA COMBINED.
DO WE EVER TALK ABOUT THOSE TWO
THINGS?
THINGS? WE DON’T.
WE DON’T. AND THE BORDER OFFICIALS I
INTERVIEWED ALL WEEK LAST WEEK,
THEY SAY THERE IS A CRISIS AT
THE BORDER.
THE BORDER. AND AGAIN, THIS IS A WAY OF
CONFUSING PEOPLE.
CONFUSING PEOPLE. THERE IS A CRISIS AT THE BORDER,
WHICH IS THAT THERE ARE A HUGE
NUMBER OF FAMILIES THERE AND
THERE ARE NO RESOURCES TO
ADDRESS IT BECAUSE INSTEAD ALL
THE RESOURCES ARE GOING TOWARD
THIS NONEXISTENT FAKE CRISIS
THAT’S REQUIRING, IN THE
PRESIDENT’S MIND, A BORDER WALL.
>> CAITLYN, THANKS FOR YOUR
REPORTING ON THIS.
CAITLYN DICKERSON IS A NATIONAL
IMMIGRATION REPORTER.
IMMIGRATION REPORTER. WE HAVE TO KEEP ON TELLING THE
TRUTH.
TRUTH. >> SUCH AN IMPORTANT AND SUCH A
CONFUSING STORY, BUT IT DOESN’T
NEED TO BE.
>> CORRECT.
>> CORRECT. >> WE NEED BORDER SECURITY.