[MUSIC PLAYING]
Yo, no more show on late night.
You know what it is.
Still recording to you live during quarantine.
Tonight, we have the illustrious guest joining us.
That's right, the drip god himself--
Billy Porter, y'all.
What's going on, guys?
[LAUGHS]
Billy, how's it going?
The empathy that I have for what's going on
right now, specifically for our people,
is really heartbreaking.
I'm also dealing with a little bit of PTSD--
MERO: Yeah.
--from being a survivor of the AIDS crisis.
Yeah.
It's eerily, eerily similar, just in tone.
How has coming from a place of being super marginalized,
having a lot of detractors--
having support, but then having a lot of detractors,
a lot of people talking shit about you,
saying this and that--
how did that steel you for the place that you're
in now, which is a great place?
Your ascension is like--
Yeah.
Yeah, I speak about age a lot.
We live in a very ageist culture.
And there's the age element, where
I feel really blessed that it has happened later for me
in life.
I just turned 50 last year.
So with age, comes wisdom.
So there's that component to it.
The component about standing in my truth and my authenticity
has been a lifelong journey.
From the moment that I could comprehend thought,
my masculinity has been in question.
Right.
And as we know, in our culture, masculinity
is the thing, especially if you're a man, especially
if you're a black male. - Black.
Yeah.
When I was five years old, my family
sent me to a psychologist every Wednesday
after kindergarten to have a psychologist
dissect the reasons why I was a sissy, essentially.
So that launched me into this space of,
something was wrong with me, and I needed to be fixed.
My entire life, that's what it's felt like.
And it was always based on my masculinity--
me not being masculine enough by society's standards.
And getting into show business did not quell that at all.
It actually made it worse, because now--
Did you think it did?
Yeah.
Oh, I know it did.
Going in, did you think it was going to be
like, oh, I'm in Hollywood now.
I'm going to be more accepted.
Theater-- I would say theater, first.
Yeah.
There is an acceptance in it while, simultaneously,
a dismissal.
How much of a difference do you
think it would've made if there was a version of you
for you to look at growing up?
I speak of this all the time.
And that was what my intention became.
When you see yourself reflected back at you--
and this is not just LGBTQ.
This is black.
This is Asian.
This is Muslim.
This is-- it's everything--
women.
I was watching something-- what was I watching?
There's Disney+.
Yeah.
OK, so I'm going to veer off for a second.
But this Disney+ station--
-
--I've been going back and watching old movies.
We were watching "Babes in Toyland" the other night.
There's literally a song for Annette Funicello, the lead
of the movie, where she literally
sings a song about not being smart enough to do math.
Oh, wow.
It's so problematic.
Disney used to be all into that.
Yeah.
If you go back and you watch all those old movies,
like the "White Christmas," and all that shit.
"Song of the South," and all that stuff.
Yeah.
You're like, yo, Disney chill.
[LAUGHS]
So when I speak of this, I'm not speaking
of marginalization for just me.
I'm talking about it's always been that for a cross-section
of so many of us--
DESUS: Yeah.
--that when I decided to take myself out of the masculinity
race, my intention became to fill the void
of what was absent for me.
Right.
It was intentional.
It was conscious.
Yes, I am the black gay one.
Yes.
That's the position that I saw empty.
And that's what I went for.
And that's now what I represent.
It was on purpose.
It was intentional.
And you're seeing the sowed seeds grow.
DESUS: Yeah. MERO: And it's growing.
DESUS: That's true.
MERO: They'll inspire a lot of kids, man.
So does that make you feel like, more so--
instead of just being Billy Porter and doing what you do,
is that in the back of your mind?
I have a responsibility--
Absolutely.
--to inspire a younger generation of kids that are
just like me, or not like me.
Absolutely.
Yeah, absolutely, because there were--
I mean, for me, that is what art has the power to do.
MERO: Right.
We, as artists, have the power and the capacity
to reach into the hearts of people
and change the molecular structure of what's
inside of their heart.
We have the power to do that.
And so, for me, it's always been a responsibility.
If an artist doesn't feel like that's their responsibility,
I'm not trying to read nobody.
I'm not trying to call nobody out.
But for me, at my house, this is what it's for, for me.
I see.
It's important for me.
My life was saved.
My life was saved by the arts and the people
who came before me.
It was saved.
It is my responsibility to reach back,
and get the generation that's behind me, and save them, too.
Be a little messy.
BILLY PORTER: Yeah.
If somebody approaches you, and they have a project
or something that they're working on,
and they want to work with you because they see some
of themselves in you, but the project
itself, eh, it's a little shaky, how do you navigate that?
No.
[LAUGHS]
The answer is no.
There you go.
That's a nice, solid answer.
That's how you nip it in the bud.
The answer is no.
But listen, I'm always encouraging.
And I'm always inspiring.
MERO: Yes.
I try to be, at least.
I try to be encouraging and not crush people's dreams.
It's like, continue to work.
I actually dive into the project with the person,
give people notes, try to help make it better.
But if it's not ready, it's not ready.
And that's also my responsibility--
Yes.
--because it's not just for the sake of.
It's like, I didn't vote for Barack Obama
simply because he was black.
DESUS: 'Cause he was black. Right.
Yeah, there has to be something behind it.
I voted for him because he was the best person for the job--
DESUS: Yeah.
--and still is, and has been one of the best
people for the job in history.
Yeah, that's--
That's why I voted for him, not just because he's black.
I voted for Hillary Clinton because she was next.
She is smart.
She's ready.
She was the one, in that moment, to lead
us to a different place.
Now we have seen what has happened when we hold our noses
and vote for an idiot.
Yeah.
Well, we didn't vote for him.
- For those who did. - [LAUGHS]
Yeah. You know what I'm saying.
[LAUGHS]
But for those who also took their toys and went home--
True.
--and sat it out--
Yep.
--that's a vote for him.
That's what we get.
That's a vote for him.
People died for us.
You are the wild style icon.
I have to ask--
Ask.
--how many pair of glasses do you own?
Oh, I don't even--
I haven't even counted.
[LAUGHS]
So the ones you're wearing right now,
are these just for today, or just--
So here's the deal.
First of all, I have a lot of glasses,
because my husband used to be in luxury eyewear.
So I have lots of frames from that.
These particular frames--
I have two bedazzled frames that happened right
before the Oscars this year.
And my prescriptions changed.
And when I say changed, I mean changed for real.
I'm 50.
I have the progressive now.
It really, really changed.
Right.
So I got my prescription filled for these two
bedazzled frames, went to the Oscars,
then went right to London for a month.
MERO: OK.
When I came home, we immediately went into lockdown.
MERO: Oh, wow.
So I have two frames [LAUGHS] that have
my new prescription in them, and they're both
bedazzled and crazy.
[LAUGHTER]
I would not be wearing these every day.
That is low-key the flex, though.
I respect that.
That's a very strong flex.
Now, before we started the interview,
you said your trajectory, hopefully,
isn't that different than ours.
You know what I'm saying?
We all came from the bottom.
And now, we're out here shining.
Got to ask the question.
Yeah.
What is the one purchase you've made that you
were just like, yo, I made it.
What was your check? - I got that.
[CLAPS]
Yeah.
What one purchase-- the happiest purchase you ever made.
I would have to say when "Kinky Boots" hit--
Shout out to "Kinky Boots."
I had a car service taking me home at night.
And so, for the first six months of the show,
I was doing this car service.
And they were giving me a stipend to pay for it.
And finally, when the Tonys were over,
and all the press was done, and we were just
in the show, eight shows a week, I
was able to look at my bills and stuff.
And I realized that I could drive myself to work in a brand
new BMW, I could drive myself back and forth to work,
park in my building, pay for parking in my building--
I have parking in my building in Harlem--
and pay for parking down the street from the theater,
and would still have money left over from the stipend
that they were giving me for a car service to go home.
Just to go home, not to pick me up-- literally,
just to go home.
So I walked into BMW, and I paid cash for a BMW X1.
Ooh.
Talk that talk.
That's what I'm talking about.
Because I had been bankrupt--
Right.
--previously, so I couldn't do it on credit.
Exactly.
So I had to go and drop the money.
- Do it in cash. - The cash.
'Cause listen, they can't say no to cash.
We all know the story.
Listen, we know the struggle.
DESUS: We know the story, man.
So I bought my BMW with cash.
[LAUGHS]
DESUS: I like that.
That is a very inspirational story right there.
- Put that in your bio. - I do.
Yeah, man.
Oh, man.
I would tell my grandkids that.
Billy Porter paid cash for it.
That's like Alpo in one of the old Harlem stories right there.
MERO: Maybe a gangster [LAUGHS] story.
Yeah.
[INAUDIBLE] the BMW cop cash.
Billy, tell us about this song.
So I redid Buffalo Springfield,
for what it's worth.
For what it's worth.
Some people don't know what I love is that--
because my acting career has taken off in the way
that it has, there's a lot of people who
don't know that I'm a singer.
DESUS: Yeah.
You know what?
When it came out on the timeline on Twitter
that you were doing a song, people were like, oh, wow, I
did not know he had vocals.
So yeah.
Yeah.
And it's like, when you're an actor,
and you're singing on the show, people hear it,
and receive it, and they're--
there was surprise, and all of that.
But I have four albums.
I had an R&B album in 1997 on A&M Records that--
DESUS: You got a catalog.
And so with this new platform, my goal
is to take this, and take my audience,
and cross back over into the mainstream music industry.
And my whole goal was--
is-- to pick up where Sylvester left off.
For those of you who don't know who Sylvester is--
(SINGING) You make me feel--
(SINGING) --mighty--
(SINGING) --mighty real.
We get it.
He was gay.
He was queer.
He was black.
He was out in the mainstream music industry.
In the '70s and '80s, he passed away from AIDS.
I want to pick up where he left off.
So that was always the long-term goal.
In the short term, I thought, what will
get me back into the business?
So last year, I released "Love Yourself,"
which was a dance single for the 50th anniversary of Stonewall.
OK.
That did well.
That went to number one on the dance charts--
blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
I've been talking to a bunch of people, signing a new deal.
In the meantime, I thought, I need
to have a presence during this presidential election.
I'm first generation product of the post Civil Rights era.
And like I said earlier, I came out of 1985.
We, as queer people, went straight to the front lines
to fight for our lives.
Activism is in my DNA.
So I wanted to re-enter the music
industry making that statement.
Yes, I'm fabulous.
Yes, I'm fierce.
And I actually am the kind of artist
that wants to use my platform and my powers for good.
I want to speak truth to power.
We used to do that a lot more than we do now.
DESUS: Right.
Protest music was a thing.
I've got to ask this final question right here.
You have achieved one of the goals we have.
You got the Primetime Emmy.
Yes.
We need to know, where do you keep the Emmy?
When you first walk in, is it right there?
Do you have it in a trophy case?
Do you have it as a table weight?
We want to know.
No.
We haven't got the nomination, but it's coming.
We want to know how to act when we--
- We're trying to find a spot. - --get there.
MERO: Yeah.
It's on my wall in my living room
with my Tony and my Grammy.
Whoo. Talk that talk.
Whoo. Talk that shit.
- Talk that talk, Billy. - [LAUGHS]
Talk that talk, Billy.
That's awesome.
Let them know.
Let them know you are accomplished.
[LAUGHS]
Give this man his roses.
It's on the wall.
Nice.
[LAUGHS]
He's a five two player.
Yes.
You know what I'm saying?
Also, Billy, we would be remiss if we didn't ask--
the outfits.
Well--
Bro, the outfits--
the Met Gala outfits.
Yeah, for real.
Is that a strictly Billy vision?
Is there a team that's helping you put it together?
Well, yes, I have a team.
I can't do that by myself.
The explosion-- I always knew--
I've always been into fashion.
You see pictures of me as a kid.
I was always dressed to the nines.
I'm a kid that wore a suit and tie to public school every day.
That's just the way I've always been.
I knew that fashion could be a part of my brain.
I see the women doing it all the time.
And it's a different revenue stream.
It's like, you can turn that into commerce.
And so it was always my goal to do that.
I found a stylist who understood how
I wanted to play with the gender nonconformity thing.
And we were just a great fit.
And--
DESUS: It worked out so well.
--we do it together.
And we make the decisions together.
And my goal is to make sure that it's, A,
that I'm a walking piece of art.
I'm a walking piece of activist art every time I do it.
When somebody like Lady Gaga or Madonna does it,
they're considered artists.
And I find when I do it, sometimes I'm just a faggot.
That's it.
Yeah.
And I don't receive that.
Right.
This is art.
Well, you got to just-- no, Billy,
let me just tell you something.
When you step on a red carpet, you are dunking on everybody
else on that red carpet.
Just let it be known. DESUS: Bringing the heat.
BILLY PORTER: [LAUGHS] - You know what I'm saying?
DESUS: Bring heat.
MERO: Ain't nobody fucking up a red carpet like you
fucking up a red carpet, baby.
You feel bad for everyone that comes behind you
because, listen, it's tight. - For real.
If I had to walk behind you on a stupid-ass Tom Ford suit--
[INTERPOSING VOICES]
All right.
I'm going to sneak in.
Billy, are you sad that the Met Gala was canceled this year?
Yeah, I'm sad.
But it will happen again.
It will happen again.
Did you have some heat on store?
Yeah, we did.
We were going to use a designer out of London.
And we had started the process.
But COVID happened so early, nothing was even--
there were just sketches done.
So we'll just pick it up next year--
DESUS: Well, we'll see.
--whenever they reschedule.
Hopefully, we catch you next year before the next Met Gala
and we see the heat you're bringing.
We're going to do an extended interview in the walk-through,
and you show us all the designs and stuff.
Awesome.
Also, if you want to be really abstract with it and really out
there, you could just bring two huge duffel bags
and put either one of us in a duffel bag.
Oh, whoa.
- You know what I mean? - Whoa.
Whoa. Relax.
Relax.
That's too much heat.
There's a lot to present.
Don't try me, 'cause I might pull you right beside me.
Listen.
It might have to happen.
My bodyguards.
Oh, even better.
Even better.
Billy, we know you're a busy man.
We're going to let you go.
Thanks for sitting down to talk to us.
Every time-- - Thanks for having me.
--we have a guest on this show, we always ask them-- you
know in New York, the bodegas.
They have the neon signs.
Neon sign could say what food is available, could have a phrase.
What would you like your neon sign to say?
Change for good.
Hey.
'Cause that's what we need.
That's a fact.
We need change for good.
- That's a fact. - Amen, brother.
Preach.
Yo, this gentleman-- give it up for Billy Porter.
Billy Porter in the building.
Thank you, guys, for having me.
Thanks so much, Billy.
Thank you for having me.
No, thank you.