These are
unprecedented times as we all grapple
with what's next
in a one of a kind election year.
Our panel is back.
Stephen Collinson, you write.
this morning,
I, under the headline Trump
Conviction heralds
a somber and volatile
moment in American history
that the danger is acute
because with his attempt
to stay in power
after losing the 2020
election, Trump has already shown
he'll do what it takes to save himself,
even if his actions catastrophically hurt
democratic institutions.
If it's Trump who raises his hand
to swear to preserve, protect
and defend the Constitution
on January 20th, as the 47th president,
America will be led by a criminal
whose duties will include
being the symbolic head
of the justice system.
quite a weighty frame for where we are.
Yeah.
And we saw the way that the former
president acted
when he was in office in his first term.
I think a second term would be,
one that would have even fewer legal
and political constraints.
That's the message
that we can take from the way
the Republican Party has,
responded to this.
I think that it will be interesting
to see
the Republican convention,
which takes place four days after the,
sentencing is due to take place.
That was already shaping up
as, a pageant of vengeance,
if you like the Trump second term,
Pageant of Vengeance.
There's a phrase, the Trump second
term mantra is
this will be a presidency of retribution.
And
I don't think
we should
I think we should take that seriously
because he has said
what he will do in the past,
and he's gone ahead and done it.
So this is how, of course,
his allies are framing this
in the immediate aftermath.
Let's listen to his son,
Donald Trump Jr, on a podcast.
in the aftermath of the verdict.
Watch
the Democrats have succeeded
in their years long quest
to turn America into a coal country.
There can be no doubt
that that has been their plan all along.
This is Third World
banana Republic looks like.
Yeah, if
like if this happened in Zimbabwe,
we'd be like, that's really bad.
sure.
Michael Singleton
I think the reality that we've
what we've learned about
how Donald Trump supporters perceive him
and the things he says
and thinks his allies say
is that they believe him.
I mean,
the polls show that, a lot of them,
by his argument
that the 2020 election was stolen.
this is what they're
feeding them right now.
But a lot of Republicans
I've spoken with, last night
via text messages,
a couple phone calls
from different focus groups
I've done over this past this year.
they're angry.
They're excited to support,
the former president.
They're resolute in their resolve.
they many of them said
this is exactly what we expect it.
We're not surprised.
They feel even more,
energized about trying to go out
and do whatever they can to,
get other Republicans
to see things their way.
I think the concern, though, here,
if I'm just putting on my strategist
hat and looking,
you know, for a 10,000ft view,
what do you do with some of the Nikki
Haley Republicans?
What do you do with some swing voters
who lean to the right?
We call them the swing voters.
But they sort of act like partizans
in terms of their voter profile.
What is the message to them?
And I've spoken
with some folks on the campaign,
and my advice to them was,
you guys, the base is energized.
Yeah, they're going to be more energized.
But this is still an election
that's going to be won on the margins.
And so electorally,
mathematically,
you still have to figure out
a way, Casey,
to make some appeal
to those Nikki Haley voters
to make some appeals
to some of those independent swing voters
who lean to the right.
And the rhetoric
for those voters will not be
what we just saw in that clip.
I'm just being frank
here as a strategist.
What do you think about that, Maria?
I think that's right.
And it's interesting
because what
we just heard
from Eric Trump about
Banana Republic,
that's what we saw on January 6th.
That's what you see in places
where the Constitution doesn't matter
where dictators take over,
where people are desperate
to stay in power,
and they will do whatever
it takes to maintain that power.
And that's exactly
what Donald Trump has done
January 6th
to so many people in this country
was a trial run,
which is why I believe the Biden campaign
is being very smart
in making sure that everybody knows that
they have never depended
on any kind of verdict
on any kind of Donald Trump's
legal woes to make the case
to the American people
that this man
is an existential threat to our democracy
that he has set,
has tried to will continue
to try to take away
our rights and freedoms.
And that that is sort of the clarion call
for the Biden campaign
to continue to make the case
that this is still a contrast
and a choice
on November
6th, regardless of November
5th, regardless of this guilty verdict.
Summary of the statement
that the Biden campaign,
I mean, look,
they're fundraising off of it.
but the statement
that the campaign put out
and the official kind of mouthpiece
of the president in the wake of this,
it didn't call Donald Trump a criminal.
it it said no one is above the law,
right?
they also said, though,
that today's verdict doesn't
change the fact
that the American people face
a simple reality.
Only one way to keep Donald Trump
out of the Oval Office.
The ballot box.
and that is also
what Donald Trump is saying,
that it's the ballot box
that's going to decide,
look, if roles were
reversed, Donald Trump
would be being way more aggressive.
And President Biden is right now.
Is that the right call to you
as they are
being a little bit restrained?
That's right.
I do think it's
the right call for this moment because,
you know,
and regardless what they would have said
or what they said,
the Trump campaign
is going to continue to say
that this was, you know,
something that Biden pushed,
that the Democrats pushed.
We all know that that is not true.
But I do think it was the right call
to be restrained at this moment.
I think that going into the election,
let's see what happens at the debate.
Let's see what happens
at the conventions.
I do think they're
going to lean into this moment.
And the whole issue about Donald Trump
being this existential threat
to democracy
and using this as an example.
Stephen. Yeah.
I think that if Donald Trump succeeds,
in moving past this,
it will be because
he's changed American politics.
He's kind of defined
political deviancy down.
The reason why
so many millions of Republicans believe
that the legal system
is cooked against him, is corrupt,
is because of the
the power that he's been able
to amass,
the power of his narrative,
his his demagoguery.
So he's changed the country
at the same time,
however, you know,
this was the October surprise
that came in May.
That wasn't really a surprise.
there may be many more things.
And experience shows us with Trump.
There are many more things that happen
between now and November
that can change this.
Having said that,
a lot of people begin voting early.
by mail and by ballot
so it could push it forward.
To your point about the president
would be really interested to see
how he behaves off the cuff.
In an aside,
in a debate
that maybe when we find out, well,
that's exactly what he's not programed.
I agree.
If I could just really quickly,
I actually think that statement
was very smart.
And I told Maria this
because strategically,
if you're trying to draw a contrast
from your opponent
that I am the more stable individual
I am the one who's
sort of above the fray.
And you're looking at, again,
some of those folks in the middle
of some of those moderate Republicans
who are looking at Biden to see
how does he respond to this?
They're going to look at that
and say, you know what?
This is someone that I
that I could vote for.
I may disagree on every issue,
but this is someone that
who could lead the country
for another four years,
who is above the partizanship.
And I think that's smart.
So Shan Wu, legally speaking,
first of all,
you have a column
I would commend to everyone
that says here's
who Trump should blame for this.
He's obviously blaming
Biden and the Democrats.
You say he should blame his lawyers.
from shouting Michael Cohen
to bullying Stormy Daniels
and failing to establish report
the jury, Trump's lawyers
proved consistently lousy
at fighting, for their client.
I I'm I'm interested to to know how
you think
he should change his legal strategy
going forward because,
I mean, big picture,
it's not necessarily
likely we'll get another trial of Trump
before the election.
There is still a possibility
it could happen.
in the tiny
check in January 6th insurrection case.
How do you see this playing into that?
he has no legal strategy.
So when you could change it,
actually have legal strategy
way back when everyone was saying,
wow, you know, it's so brilliant.
He's using the political strategy.
With the legal strategy,
it shifted to there is no legal strategy.
It's all political strategy.
So going forward,
if he wants to listen to his lawyers,
he'll have a strategy.
If they only listen to him
like they did in this trial,
they'll continue to be no strategy
whatsoever.
I mean,
I think this country,
we ask a lot
of the criminal justice system
a little bit too much.
But yesterday
the criminal justice system
had a good day. It actually did its job.
All right.
Stephen Collins and Michael Singleton.
Maria Cardona, I'm very grateful
to have you this morning.