Welcome to the show.
Um, I know you from your writing,
I know you from your columns.
Many people know you from topics that range from feminism
to politics to social commentary.
But this book is something different.
-This book is a memoir -Yes.
that takes us through your life
in a way that I don't think anybody would expect.
It takes us through your life through the prism of eating
and through the prism of being a fat person living in the world.
-Yes. -Why did you choose to write it in this way?
Because I didn't want to write it at all.
But, um, as I was thinking
of what I wanted my next nonfiction project to be,
I wanted to tell the story of my body.
Because when you're fat in the world,
people-people have assumptions
about who you are and why you're fat
and they think you're stupid.
Like, yesterday, someone emailed me,
"Do you know that exercise is required to lose weight?"
No. (chuckles)
Never occurred to me.
And so, um,
you know, I think it's important to show, like,
what it's actually like to live in this world
-in a fat body. -Right. It's-it's a... it's a journey
that you take us on, and, um,
there's a part of the book that really caught me,
where you talk about the underlying story of being fat
-that many people have that no one knows about. -Yes.
You know? You talk in the book about Oprah and her journey,
and then what's really heart-wrenching
is the story that you tell in the book.
And that is you were gang-raped at 12 years old.
Yes, I was.
And that led to a journey of hating yourself,
hating your body.
How did that come to be?
How does... how does your world collapse?
I know you write about it in the book,
but, I mean, how does that happen?
Uh, you know, when I was 12, this thing happened,
and it was so unexpected, and I was a good Catholic girl,
and so, I didn't even know, like, what sex was.
I mean, I knew the technicalities,
-but I did not know what rape was. -Right.
I certainly didn't know that you could be
with more than one person, and so,
my world was shattered in the aftermath.
And I just thought, "I want to be stronger,
I want to be bigger."
And so I thought, "If I eat a lot, uh,
"those boys won't do this again, because I'll be able
-to fight them next time." -Right.
"And they won't want to do this because I'll be fat,
and boys don't like fat girls."
And so, in many ways, it was a deliberate choice.
And of course, looking back, I'm like,
"Girl, talk to Mom and Dad," but, you know,
12-year-olds with secrets hold onto them very tightly.
And that was something you didn't do.
-You didn't talk to Mom and Dad. Why? -No. I was really scared,
because I believed everything that we learned in church
about premarital sex being a sin,
and I was absolutely certain that I was going to hell.
And then those boys went to school the following day
and told everyone a different story--
that I wanted it.
And so, everyone started calling me a slut.
-And I just knew nobody would believe me. -Uh-huh.
'Cause it was gonna be my word against these guys.
When you tell the story of how that changed your life
and how that became a part of who you are today,
you talk a lot about the consequences
of living in a world that sees fat a certain way.
-Uh-huh. -Now I won't deny, as a comedian and as a person,
I've made a ton of fat jokes in my life, you know?
-Yup. Absolutely. -And there was a time
-when fat was seen as a novelty, as a choice. -Mm-hmm.
America's now gotten to a place
where people are realizing it's an epidemic.
-They're real... realizing that there are effects. -Yes.
What are some of the effects that you've dealt with
living in your body?
Well, you know, there are a lot of things that you encounter.
Like at the grocery store, people make commentary
on what they see in your cart.
-They'll take food out of your cart. -Wow.
Uh... yeah. Realness.
And, uh, they send you unsolicited advice.
I'm a writer, and I do events,
and I've had people come up to the signing line
(laughing): and offer me nutritional advice.
I'm sorry. It's just insane.
-(laughter) -Um... (clears her throat)
You know, the world doesn't fit...
-I feel you don't fit in the world oftentimes. -Yeah.
I write in the book that the bigger you become,
the smaller your world gets because, you know,
you can't necessarily fit in theater seats.
And airplane travel is such a pain
because those seats are not roomy for anyone.
And so you either have to buy two tickets,
and then the airline is like, "Why did you buy two tickets?"
Or you buy one ticket
and you encroach on someone else's space,
-and they're like, "Why didn't you buy two tickets?" -Right.
And so no matter what you do, you can't fit.
And the world is not really interested
in creating a space for you to fit.
People just judge you, and they say, you know,
"You're gonna die nine years younger."
Which... Why do you care?
And then they... You know, they think
you're draining the health care system,
as they smoke a cigarette.
And so it's just a constant sense
that you don't belong,
and people feel no compunction about being cruel about it.
It's-it's interesting that you tell the stories
in the way you do, because many people
will write a book as a story of triumph,
as a story of like,
"And this is how, you know, the ending was happy.
-Yep. -And this is how I overcame."
This is an honest journey that takes us through it.
You don't want us to feel sorry for you,
but you want us to know the reality
of the world that you live in.
Was there a part of you
that didn't want to write it because of that?
Yeah, definitely,
because generally when people write about weight,
there's, like, a woman standing in half of her fat pants
on the cover, and she's smiling like,
"Look what I've done."
And I couldn't write that book.
(laughs)
So I was like, "I couldn't stand in my fat pants."
-And it'd just be that. -Right.
Uh, and people, you know,
they want a triumphant narrative.
They want to believe that you have solved
the problem of your body.
Um, but my body is not a problem,
and it certainly isn't something I've solved yet.
I'm still just trying to figure out how do I have--
now that I'm as fixed as I've ever gonna be--
a normal relationship to food and eating?
And how do I write my story in a way...
It's not about self-pity.
It's just, this is my story instead of whatever it is
that you're gonna project onto me.
-Mm-hmm. -So I was really nervous
because there isn't that triumphant ending,
like "Ta-da."
-I-It's a work in progress. -Yes.
It's very much a work in progress.
If you could go back and talk to that 12-year-old girl...
-Yes. -If Roxane could travel back in time in the book...
-Mm-hmm. -What would you say to her?
Oh, my God.
I would just tell her, "Talk to your parents.
Trust them to help you."
If I had opened up at any point,
either then or later on in high school,
I think my life would have taken a far different turn.
I don't know that it would have been, like,
-been significantly better. -Uh-huh.
But I know that I would not have turned
to the coping mechanisms I did
because they would have helped me
get the kind of help you're supposed to get
when you endure this kind of a trauma.
It's interesting that the book is called
because when you open it and when you start,
you think that it's a book only about food.
-Mm-hmm. -But the hunger seems to transcend
-more than just the physical. -Absolutely.
It feels like it's a craving
for more than just what is on a plate
-Mm-hmm. -and what is served in a restaurant and, uh...
It's-it's honestly...
It's an amazing story, and I can only thank you
-for sharing it with us. -Oh, thank you so much, Trevor.
-Thank you for being here, Roxane. -It's my pleasure.
Hunger
Roxane Gay, everybody.