WERE AT LEAST 12 AUDIO RECORDINGS WHICH FEDERAL
PROSECUTORS WILL HAVE ACCESS TO.
FOR MORE I’M JOINED BY MICHAEL
AVENATTI, ATTORNEY FOR STORMY
DANIELS AND KIMBERLY WHALEY,
FORMER ASSISTANT U.S. ATTORNEY
AND LAW PROFESSOR.
MICHAEL, THANK YOU FOR COMING
ON.
ON. I THINK YOU HAVE A GOOD
POLITICAL SENSE OF THIS WHOLE
THING ABOUT YOUR CLIENT STORMY
DANIELS AND WHAT MICHAEL COHEN
WOULD BE UP TO.
DO YOU THINK MICHAEL COHEN IS
NOW BASED UPON THESE RECORDINGS,
NOW THAT HE HAS ALL THESE
RECORDINGS IN HAND AS EVIDENCE
TO ANY CASE HE WANTS TO MAKE, HE
HAS A LOST SUPPORT GOING INTO
COURT, A LOT OF EXHIBITS, THAT
HE’S IN A VERY STRONG POSITION
NOW TO NEGOTIATE HIS FREEDOM?
>> YOU KNOW, CHRIS, I THINK HE
MAY BE, BUT I THINK THAT THIS
INFORMATION POTENTIALLY CAN BE
DEVALUED WITH EACH PASSING DAY.
AND THAT’S WHY I THINK THAT IF
MICHAEL COHEN’S GOING TO DO THE
RIGHT THING HE NEEDS TO DO IT
VERY, VERY QUICKLY AND COME
FORWARD WITH WHAT HE HAS NOT
ONLY WITH FEDERAL PROSECUTORS
BUT ALSO WITH THE AMERICAN
PEOPLE.
PEOPLE. WE’VE SEEN A PROGRESSION IN THE
LAST FEW WEEKS, MICHAEL COHEN
TRYING TO PAINT HIMSELF AS A
PATRIOT, AS A GUY WHO LOVES HIS
COUNTRY.
COUNTRY. BUT I THINK HE’S TRYING TO HAVE
IT BOTH WAYS.
I THINK HE’S STILL HOLDING OUT
HOPE, CHRIS, THAT DONALD TRUMP
IS GOING TO APPEAR IN THE MIDDLE
OF THIS DARK FOREST AND LEAD HIM
OUT TO SALVATION.
AND IF THERE’S ONE THING WE KNOW
ABOUT THIS PRESIDENT, IT IS THAT
HE HAS LOYALTY FOR NO ONE, OR TO
NO ONE.
NO ONE. SO I THINK THAT MICHAEL COHEN IS
KIDDING HIMSELF.
KIDDING HIMSELF. >> HOW LONG CAN HE STRETCH IT
OUT BEFORE HE HAS TO MAKE A --
WHAT’S HIS SHOT CLOCK?
BASKETBALL TERMS, WHEN DOES HE
HAVE TO DECIDE I TRUST TRUMP FOR
A PARDON OR I’M TAKING MY
CHANCES WITH MUELLER?
WHEN’S HE HAVE TO MAKE THAT
CALL?
CALL? >> WELL, I THINK HE HAS TO MAKE
IT PRETTY QUICKLY, CHRIS.
AND HERE’S SOMETHING TO THINK
ABOUT.
ABOUT. IF BOB MUELLER ULTIMATELY
CONCLUDES THAT A SITTING
PRESIDENT CANNOT BE INDICTED,
AND I THINK HE MAY VERY WELL
CONCLUDE THAT, THEN WHAT IS THE
VALUE OF THE INFORMATION THAT
MICHAEL COHEN HAS ON THE
PRESIDENT?
PRESIDENT? IT’S NOT VERY HIGH.
SO THE LONGER THAT MICHAEL COHEN
WAITS TO USE HIS INFORMATION TO
HIS OWN BENEFIT, THE GREATER
CHANCE HE RUNS THAT IT’S GOING
TO BE DEVALUED TO ZERO.
>> ON FRIDAY, THAT’S JUST A FEW
DAYS AGO, RUDY GIULIANI CALLED
THE TAPES POWERFUL EXCULPATORY
EVIDENCE FOR THE PRESIDENT.
HOWEVER, HIS TEAM HAS NOT
RELEASED ANY RECORDINGS OR
TRANSCRIPTS TO BACK UP THAT
STATEMENT.
STATEMENT. TODAY IN RESPONSE TO REPORTS
THAT THERE WERE AT LEAST 12
OTHER AUDIO RECORDINGS LANNY
DAVIS, CLINTON ALLY, COHEN’S NEW
LAWYER, TWEETED "LATEST NEWS
ABOUT MICHAEL COHEN’S TAPES OF
CONVERSATIONS ARE BEING RELEASED
BY DONALD TRUMP AND HIS LEGAL
TEAM WHO OWN AND WAIVED THE
PRIVILEGE.
PRIVILEGE. WILL RUDY GIULIANI CALL THESE
TAPES EXCULPATORY AGAIN?
AS I NOTED BEFORE THE TAPES WILL
SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES.
SPIN CAN’T CHANGE FACTS."
LET’S TALK ABOUT FACTS.
IF YOU HAVE A TAPE THERE OF THE
NOW PRESIDENT TALKING TO HIS
LAWYER FIXER MICHAEL COHEN ABOUT
MAKING PAYOFFS TO SILENCE A
PERSON WHO HAD A RELATIONSHIP OR
SAID THEY HAD A RELATIONSHIP
WITH HIM.
WITH HIM. WOULD THAT BE -- I THINK THAT’S
POWERFUL INFORMATION.
POWERFUL INFORMATION. I THINK IF PEOPLE SEE IT’S ON
THE RECORD NOW THAT THIS ALL
HAPPENED, IT ISN’T JUST HIS
ENEMIES TALKING, IT WILL HAVE A
LOT OF INFLUENCE ON HIS LIFE,
HIS WHATEVER, THE WAY HE LIVES,
HOW WE THINK OF HIM.
AND I’M JUST WONDERING WHAT THE
LEGAL SITUATION IS OF THESE
TAPES.
TAPES. >> SO UNDER --
>> WHAT LAW DO THEY SHOW THAT HE
BROKE?
BROKE? >> UNDER NEW YORK LAW IT DOESN’T
SOUND LIKE HE BROKE ANYTHING
BECAUSE ONLY ONE PERSON HAS TO
CONSENT TO A TAPING.
>> NO, I’M TALKING ABOUT PAYING
OFF SOMEBODY NOT TO PUBLISH
SOMETHING.
SOMETHING. YOU’RE BASICALLY USING YOUR
POWER TO KILL A STORY.
IS THAT LEGAL?
>> UNDER THE CAMPAIGN FINANCE
LAWS ANYTHING OF VALUE THAT’S
EXCHANGED FOR THE CAMPAIGN THAT
WOULD HELP THE CANDIDATE IS
CONSIDERED --
CONSIDERED -- >> SO THE NEWSPAPER COMPANY
OWNERSHIP IS REALLY KICKING IN
SOME CASH.
SOME CASH. >> IT’S LIKE A LOAN.
SO IF THEY SAID LISTEN, WE’LL
PAY HER SOW DON’T HAVE TO PAY
HER AND THAT HELPED THE CAMPAIGN
IN THAT IT SORT OF PUT DOWN SOME
BAD INFORMATION THAT WOULD HAVE
HURT TRUMP, SURE, THAT SHOULD
HAVE BEEN DISCLOSED.
>> MICHAEL, TALK ABOUT THAT LAW
THERE BECAUSE I’M CURIOUS HOW
YOU GET TO THE PERPETRATORS OF
THIS DEAL, THIS CONSPIRACY TO
SILENCE TRUMP’S GIRLFRIENDS, IF
YOU WILL, WOMEN WITH WHOM HE’S
HAD RELATIONS, KIND OF KEEP THAT
OUT OF THE PRESS AND USING MONEY
AND FRIENDS TO DO IT.
WHO’S EXPOSED HERE?
>> WELL, I THINK ULTIMATELY THE
PRESIDENT COULD BE EXPOSED AS
WELL AS MICHAEL COHEN.
IF ON THESE TAPES, FOR INSTANCE,
CHRIS, THEY HAD DISCUSSIONS
ABOUT THE FLOW OF THE MONEY AND
HOW THESE PAYMENTS WERE GOING TO
BE MADE AND THE FACT THEY WERE
GOING TO BE MADE IN SUCH A WAY
WHERE IT COULD NOT BE TRACED
BACK TO DONALD TRUMP BUT IN
ESSENCE IT WAS DONALD TRUMP’S
MONEY OR OTHER PEOPLE WERE
CARRYING OUT THESE PAYMENTS AT
HIS REQUEST, THAT COULD BE BE A
SIGNIFICANT AND SERIOUS CAMPAIGN
FINANCE VIOLATION AS RELATES TO
VIOLATING THE AMOUNT THAT CAN BE
CONTRIBUTED AS WELL AS THEY SAY
FOLLOW THE MONEY.
IT COULD ALSO POSE A PROBLEM AS
RELATES TO MONEY LAUNDERING AND
BANK FRAUD IF IN FACT THEY WERE
DISCUSSING HOW TO SHIELD THESE
PAYMENTS FROM REGULATORS AND
OTHERS.
OTHERS. >> WHAT DO YOU THINK’S GOING TO
HAPPEN -- YOU’VE TEASED ME HERE,
MICHAEL.
MICHAEL. YOU’RE PRETTY GOOD AT THIS.
BUT YOU’VE TEASED ME.
YOU THINK THAT MUELLER WILL COME
TO THE CONCLUSION THAT UNDER THE
CONSTITUTION HE CANNOT INDICT A
SITTING PRESIDENT.
SITTING PRESIDENT. SO HE MAY DECIDE TO DEFER THE
CHARGES FOR LATER.
IS THAT FEASIBLE?
COULD HE SAY I THINK HE’S
COMMITTED CRIMES HERE, THEY MAY
BE HIGH CRIMES, BUT I CAN’T ACT
ON THEM BECAUSE THE CONSTITUTION
PREVENTS ME FROM INDICTING.
WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF HE DECIDED
THAT?
THAT? WOULD HE DROP THE CHARGES?
>> WELL, HE COULD DEFER THEM.
WHAT I BELIEVE IS GOING TO
HAPPEN BASED ON, YOU KNOW, MY
UNDERSTANDING OF BOB MUELLER,
WHO’S ONE HECK OF AN ATTORNEY
AND VERY BY THE BOOK KIND OF
GUY, I THINK THAT ULTIMATELY
HE’S GOING TO CONCLUDE -- IT’S A
DIFFERENT CONCLUSION THAN I
WOULD COME TO.
I WOULD GO AHEAD AND CHARGE HIM
AND MAKE THE SUPREME COURT
KROEFR OVERRULE ME, BUT THAT’S
JUST ME.
JUST ME. BUT I THINK HE’S GOING TO
CONCLUDE YOU CAN’T INDICT A
SITTING PRESIDENT, I THINK HE’S
GOING TO DEFER THE CHARGES, HE’S
GOING TO ISSUE A VERY DETAILED
REPORT AND HE’S GOING TO LEAVE
IT UP TO CONGRESS TO POTENTIALLY
IMPEACH THE PRESIDENT OR TO THE
ELECTORATE TO THROW HIM OUT OF
OFFICE IN 2020.
>> SO GOING BACK TO RUDY, RUDY’S
RIGHT IN NOT LETTING THE
PRESIDENT TESTIFY.
PRESIDENT TESTIFY. >> WELL --
>> IF HE CAN’T BE INDICTED --
SOMEBODY ONCE SAID TO ME YEARS
AGO IN PHILADELPHIA IF YOU’RE
NOT RUNNING FOR RE-ELECTION TAKE
THE FIFTH.
THE FIFTH. SO I WONDER WHETHER HE SHOULDN’T
JUST IN EFFECT -- IF YOU’RE THE
PRESIDENT TAKE THE FIFTH.
IF YOU CAN’T BE INDICTED WHAT
HAVE YOU GOT TO LOSE?
>> WELL, THERE’S POLITICAL
RAMIFICATIONS HERE OR THERE’S
LEGAL ONES AND THE POLITICAL
PROCESS ISN’T HOLDING HIM
ACCOUNTABLE.
ACCOUNTABLE. THE LEGAL PROCESS, I AGREE WITH
MICHAEL THAT I THINK BOB
MUELLER’S GOING TO FOLLOW THE
DOJ GUIDANCE, WHICH SAYS THAT
YOU CAN’T INDICT A SITTING --
>> SO THROW IT TO THE --
>> ALTHOUGH I DO THINK THERE’S
SOME AMBIGUITY IN THE MOST
RECENT STATEMENT ON, THAT IN
THAT COULD YOU ACTUALLY INDICT
HIM AND HOLD THE TRIAL FOR AFTER
HE WAS FINISHED BEING A
PRESIDENT?
PRESIDENT? BECAUSE THEN IT WOULD --
>> BUT IT STILL GOES TO THE
HOUSE.
HOUSE. >> YEAH.
>> YEAH. I THINK THAT’S REALLY WHAT IT
BOILS DOWN TO AND THE FACT THE
AMERICAN PUBLIC DOESN’T SEEM TO
CARE IS A PROBLEM.
>> TWO FACTS.
THE DEMOCRATS LOOK LIKE THEY’RE
GOING TO WIN THE HOUSE, AT LEAST
NARROWLY, MAYBE BY MORE, AND
THEY’LL HAVE THE POWER OF
SUBPOENA 37 IT’S GOING TO BE
INTERESTING.
INTERESTING. ADAM SCHIFF AND THE REST WILL
HAVE THE POWER OF SUBPOENA.
AND I THINK THINGS ARE -- AND
JERRY NADLER AS WELL, CHAIRMAN
OF THE HOUSE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE