Anderson Cooper with us. Anderson.
How was court
You were there all morning.
I got to say
there was a lot of boring moments
early on.
There was a lot of kind of meandering
cross-examination
or seemingly meandering
cross-examination by Todd Blanch.
But the last 20 minutes of court
today, right before the lunch break,
it was incredible.
I mean, it was,
you know,
Elie Hoenig on, on my program
last night had talked about,
you know, on, on a cross-examination.
Lawyers want to kind of
put the the witness in a,
you know, build a box around the witness
and then slam it shut.
That's what Todd Blanchard did to
to Michael Cohen.
I mean, the story,
you know, the Todd Blanchard
just methodically went through
this sequence of events,
of this this, phone conversation,
that alleged
that that,
Michael Cohen
had testified to previously,
you know, that
that he had had this
consequential phone conversation
with Donald Trump.
It was a 92nd phone conversation,
I believe was October 24th,
with the date
testified to and in around 8 p.m.
or so at night.
but Todd Blanchard
on on his cross-examination today
went kind of looked
at the transcripts of text messages
that Michael Cohen had,
received and sent
before that, that time frame.
and there had been this series
I guess, a prank calls
that Michael Cohen had received.
It turned out to be
from some 14 year old.
There was an exchange of messages
between the alleged 14 year old
and Michael Cohen.
And then Michael Cohen
texted
Keith Schiller at like 750
something or 7:48 p.m.,
saying, hey, you know,
I've got some dope has been harassing me.
I got the person's phone number.
Who can I talk to?
Keith Schiller texted him back
saying, call me, and Michael
Cohen calls Keith Schiller.
This is the conversation
that previously Michael Cohen
had said
he was calling
to speak to Donald Trump to tell him,
that the stormy
he was going ahead with the Stormy
Daniels arrangement
and that Trump approved it, which was a,
you know, a
crucial, crucial
to Michael Cohen's whole raison d'etre
for being on the stand.
He's the only person testifying
to involvement
by direct involvement by Donald Trump,
in the Stormy Daniels payments.
but it according to suddenly now
Michael Cohen's refresh memory,
he now says, oh,
it was a call about this
14 year old making crank
phone calls to me, but also about,
the the moving ahead on Stormy Daniels.
Todd Blanch was incredulous.
his voice cracking, his voice raising
up, moving around the courtroom.
speaking.
You know, saying, you know, saying that
what the the jury doesn't want to hear,
you know him?
guessing it wants to hear facts.
It was an extraordinary
cross-examination by Todd Blanch.
And, you know,
Michael Cohen's
throughout the day,
Michael Cohen
when cornered
and when he found himself in a corner,
he does have a pattern of
suddenly not
understanding the question
that's being asked or seemingly kind of,
I mean, one
could say buying time
to try to figure out
what how he wants to answer.
but he definitely suddenly starts to,
you know, have Todd Blanch
repeat questions and say,
I don't quite understand what you mean.
I'm confused by the question.
but this time Michael Cohen
was was cornered in what appeared to be,
a lie.
I think to many in the room,
and had to adjust suddenly his memory
that he had just testified to on Tuesday.
Lee, I mean, you pointed out,
just right before the commercial break,
you know, if jurors don't believe Michael Cohen,
how significant is that?
That might be. He was.
I mean, it is hard to
I wonder how prosecutors
are going to redirect on this
because Todd Blanch also pointed out,
I got Michael Cohen
to admit that
he had not seen these text messages
in the Prep by prosecutors,
so he had
apparently had no memory
of those text messages.
and the implication is that he concocted,
you know, he was shown
that there was a phone call
to Keith Schiller at this time
by prosecutors in the prep
and the the implication,
certainly, by Todd Blanch,
is that
he concocted this story
of what
that 92nd phone call was
not realizing
that there were text messages
right ahead that directly related it,
and right after that directly related it.
So I understand obviously,
this resonated with you
as a courtroom observer.
Did you happen to see anything
in the jury box?
Were you able to pick up on
any reaction from the jurors?
I mean, these jurors are not, as you know,
I think a lot of people have said
and I've seen before,
they are they are they
they do not show reaction.
but you could tell the import import
of the moment and everybody in
the courtroom can tell.
And if you were unaware of it,
the clicking of every reporter
in the room's typewriters,
it was like a crescendo,
because the drama of the moment
was so clear to everybody in the room.
But the jurors showed
nothing on their faces, but they were.
They were watching incredibly intently.
And, you know, Todd Blanchard
essentially stopped the cross-examination
and said to the judge, you know, this
maybe this is a good time
for a lunch break.
And the judge agreed.
So this is what the jurors
are going to think to lunch.
I was talking to Norm
icing on the way out from court.
who was saying, you know, Todd Blanchard
should try to keep the cross-examination
going all the way
till through the afternoon.
not allowing the the prosecution to
to redirect it
so that for the next three
days, jurors
are just have
Michael Cohen's tested
testimony to mull over.
Yeah, that's a common tactic.
Anderson, let me ask you
if I can put you in the jury box,
having just witnessed
that piece of cross-examination,
do you have doubts
that that conversation happened
the way Michael Cohen testified
on his direct examination?
That I think Trump answered, I think it's
absolutely, absolutely
I think it's devastating.
I mean, for Michael Cohen's
credibility on this,
I mean, in this one particular topic,
whether it's, you know,
he just didn't I mean, it's it's hard to
I don't know. Yes.
I think
if I was a juror
in this case watching that, I would think
this guy's making this up as he's
going along
or he's making this particular story up.
You know, Todd Blanchard's pointing out
you were testifying
just on Tuesday in this court.
you know, and all morning long, he's
been pointing out,
you know, inconsistencies.
in, in Michael Cohen's testimony
or at least questionable
aspects of Michael Cohen's testimony,
but nothing that you would necessarily,
as a juror, think, okay, that's clearly
a lie. Maybe that's just,
he was
misunderstanding or,
you know, he was bragging or whatever.
This one, Todd Bland clearly saved this
to right before the lunch break.
I'm assuming,
because it was just so well crafted
and just point by point,
walking through this story,
which at first seemed, you know, why?
Why?
Well, this seems like a ridiculous story
some 14 year old is sending him,
you know, nasty text messages
and he's going to call it
Keith Schiller about it.
And then you realize, you look at that.
He showed the phone logs
that the prosecutor had shown,
and it's the phone call that,
that, that,
that Michael Cohen
previously talked about.
I think it is severely damaging
to Michael Cohen's testimony.
And I know
Kara Scannell is with us as well.
I mean, Carrie, you were there.
What did you think we were sitting
I was sitting opposite,
and I haven't been. I'll talk to you.
But I found it just so exciting.
It was,
you know, whatever,
whoever you believe, whatever side.
It was just a remarkable moment in court.
It truly was.
Because it
was really just kind of this building
crescendo with more of that,
you know, more mundane
questioning of trying to see
if Cohen did lie about multiple things,
including whether he wanted a pardon
or whether he was accepting
responsibility for his guilty plea.
But then it built to that moment
where Todd Blanch
methodically went through the phone
calls, the text messages and,
you know, as you were saying,
kind of put Michael Cohen in the box
and then shut the lid because it was and
added to it by being himself
more theatrical about it.
He's pacing, he's rubbing
his head, he's flailing
his arms, his voice is rising
as he is being incredulous,
saying to Cohen,
are you do
you really expect me to believe
that in that one minute,
36 second phone call
that you talk to Keith Schiller
about the harassing text
messages and phone calls,
and also to Donald Trump
about Stormy Daniels,
where you told him it was resolved.
So really
just trying to undercut
all of Cohen's credibility in that moment
and in Cohen,
you know, while he maintained his composure,
he certainly didn't look like
he had a lot of,
confidence in his answers there.
I mean, it even began
even more slowly
by saying that, you know,
asking Cohen,
did you even talk about this phone call
when he met with prosecutors?
And Cohen couldn't remember if he did.
He was trying to refresh
his recollection.
did it say that he did.
So that was casting doubt.
And then he just built and built
and built by showing those text messages
showing the call logs,
and then at the end
where he left the jury with it
after that big moment, he then said,
you know,
so I don't want what you think
you remember.
I the jury needs to know what you know
and what you definitely remember.
And then he left it
hanging in the air of did
was this true
for all of the phone calls
that Cohen recalled in 2016?
Because that gets to the broader
questions of his credibility
and whether the jury should should
maybe just doubt this one
phone call or doubt all of Cohen's
recollections of the phone calls
that he had with Donald Trump, including,
you know, some of these ones at the end,
including his testimony
about the Oval Office meeting,
the Trump Tower meeting where Trump
allegedly approved
and signed off
on the reimbursement scheme
that's at the heart of this case.