BACK TO YOU, JACKIE.
BRIAN: EDWARD LAWRENCE THANKS SO
MUCH FOR THAT.
FOR MORE ON THIS LOOMING
INVASION OF UKRAINE WE WELCOME
CONGRESSMAN DAN MEUSER FROM
HOUSE FOREIGN AFFAIRS, ALONG
WITH FORMER INTELLIGENCE OFFICER
FROM THE DEFENSE INTELLIGENCE
AGENCY, MATTHEW SCHUMAKER.
JACKIE: START WITH YOU, MATTHEW.
HE SAID HE WAS STARTING BY
AIRING GRIEVANCES AGAINST
UKRAINE.
HE SAID UKRAINE CAN’T EXIST AS A
SEPARATE STATE AND HE RECOGNIZED
THESE TWO BREAKAWAY REPUBLICS.
HE ALSO SAID THAT HE WANTS TO
TAKE BACK LAND THAT IS
RIGHTFULLY OURS, MEANING
RUSSIA’S, MAKING HIS INTENTIONS
VERY CLEAR.
SO RIGHT NOW THE EXPECTATION IS
THAT THIS INVASION IS IMMINENT,
LITERALLY WITHIN HOURS.
>> JACKIE, THANK YOU VERY MUCH
FOR HAVING ME ON.
WELL, ACCORDING TO BRITISH AND
FRENCH MEDIA RIGHT NOW THE
RUSSIAN PRESIDENT HAS ALREADY
GIVEN THE GO ORDER FOR RUSSIAN
TROOPS TO MOVE INTO UKRAINE.
THAT WAS ABOUT AN HOUR AGO.
IF THAT IS INDEED TRUE RUSSIAN
TROOPS PROBABLY ALREADY CROSSED
THE BORDER.
PRESIDENT PUTIN IS CLAIMING THAT
THEY WILL BE PEACEKEEPERS BUT
THIS IS EXACTLY THE SITUATION
THAT I WAS TRAINED ON AS A
COUNTERINTELLIGENCE OFFICER WITH
THE DEFENSE INTELLIGENCE AGENCY.
I WAS ON THE UKRAINE DESK ITSELF
AND MY JOB WAS TO GET INTO THE
RUSSIAN MINDSET, TO UNDERSTAND
HOW THEY OPERATE AND WHAT THEIR
GOALS ARE AND I THINK ONE OF THE
THINGS THAT WE NEED TO KEEP IN
MIND IS THAT THERE IS A RUSSIAN
SAYING THAT GOES PAPER WILL
ENDURE ANYTHING YOU WRITE ON IT.
SECONDLY IT MEANS TALK IS CHEAP.
SO I THINK PRESIDENT BIDEN HAS
REALLY STRUGGLED TO COME UP WITH
AN OFF-RAMP IF YOU WILL TO THIS
CRISIS BECAUSE HE KEEPS CALLING
FOR MORE DIPLOMACY.
HE KEEPS CALLING FOR MORE TALKS
BUT THAT IS NOT GOING TO
INTEREST PRESIDENT PUTIN AT ALL.
JACKIE: SPEAKING OF DIPLOMACY
AND FURTHER CONVERSATIONS, WHAT
IT SOUNDS LIKE HE ESSENTIALLY
SAYING IF PUTIN DECIDE HE WON’T
INVADE, IF HE HOLDS OFF, BIDEN
WOULD HAVE A CONVERSATION WITH
HIM, BUT CONGRESSMAN, JEN PSAKI
ALSO TALKING ABOUT THE PRESIDENT
PREPARING AN EXECUTIVE ORDER
THAT WOULD INCLUDE SANCTIONS ON
BUSINESSES AND PEOPLE AS WELL,
NOT REALLY GETTING INTO MORE
SPECIFICS THAN THAT.
AT THIS POINT SO MANY ARE SAYING
THE TIME FOR SANCTIONS WAS A
LONG TIME AGO.
WE NEED TO MOVE ON THESE
SANCTIONS AND YOU KNOW, REALLY
TRY TO SHOW VLADMIR PUTIN WHO IS
BOSS HERE?
>> WELL-SAID, JACKIE.
EVEN ZELENSKYY HAS STATED A A
NUMBER OF TIMES IS THAT
APPEASEMENT IS WHAT GOT US HERE
AND WHY SHOULD WE WAIT FOR
SANCTIONS SINCE WE KNOW THE
BARBARIANS ARE AT THE GATE?
LOOK, YOU KNOW IN MANY WAYS
PUTIN PLAYED THIS ACCORDING TO
HIS PLAN.
HE ESTABLISHED READINESS, THE
PRETEXT FOR VIOLENCE WITH MUCH
OF THE PROPAGANDA AND
MISINFORMATION.
NOW TRYING TO CREATE SOME SORT
OF LEGAL AVENUE WHERE HE WILL BE
INVITED INTO THESE REPUBLICS.
THE UNITED STATES VERY CLEARLY
NEEDS TO PUT DOWN WHAT THE
CONSEQUENCES ARE GOING TO BE AND
THEY MUST BE WORSE THAN ANY
GAINS AND THE IDEA FRANKLY THAT
SWIFT IS OFF THE TABLE, THE
INTERNATIONAL BANKING NETWORK,
AND NORD STREAM 2 IS VAGUE,
THAT’S ONE OF THE REASONS WE’RE
AT THIS POINT BECAUSE OF OUR
WEAKNESS OF OUR ARTICULATION OF
THE CONSEQUENCES.
JACKIE: MATTHEW, YOU KNOW I
THINK THE CONGRESSMAN IS RIGHT
THERE, FEELS ALMOST LIKE THE
SITUATION IN AFGHANISTAN WHERE
THE PRESIDENT, THE
ADMINISTRATION, THEY WERE ACTING
LATE IN RESPONSES AND IT FELT
LIKE THEY WERE ON THEIR HEELS
THE WHOLE TIME INSTEAD OF
PLAYING OFFENSIVE GAME, THEY
WERE PLAYING A DEFENSIVE GAME.
HAVING SAID THAT, NOW WE’RE AT
THIS POINT, WHITE HOUSE NATIONAL
SECURITY ADVISOR JAKE SULLIVAN
ESSENTIALLY HAS ACKNOWLEDGED AND
PUT OUT THERE THIS IS GOING TO
BE VERY BLOODY IF IT MOVES
FORWARD.
I WANT YOU TO LISTEN TO THIS.
>> ANY MILITARY OPERATION OF
THIS SIZE, SCOPE AND MAGNITUDE
OF WHAT WE BELIEVE THE RUSSIANS
ARE PLANNING WILL BE EXTREMELY
VIOLENT.
IT WILL COST OF LIVES OF
UKRAINIANS, RUSSIANS, CIVILIANS
AND MILITARY PERSONNEL ALIKE BUT
WE ALSO HAVE INTELLIGENCE TO
SUGGEST THAT THERE WILL BE A
GREATER FORM OF BRUTALITY.
IT WILL BE A WAR WAGED BY RUSSIA
ON THE UKRAINIAN PEOPLE TO
REPRESS THEM TO, CRUSH THEM, TO
HARM THEM.
JACKIE: MATTHEW, THIS IS VLADMIR
PUTIN.
A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE NOT
SURPRISED BY THAT ASSESSMENT.
>> AND I THINK THE NATIONAL
SECURITY ADVISOR IS CORRECT TO A
LARGE EXTENT.
I THINK THAT TO A CERTAIN EXTENT
ACTUALLY I THINK PRESIDENT PUTIN
MAY HAVE MISCALCULATED THIS.
HE IS KIND OF BACKED HIMSELF
INTO A CORNER WHERE HE HAS ONLY
GIVEN HIMSELF THE OPTION TO
INVADE.
THE RUSSIAN STOCK EXCHANGE JUST
TODAY DROPPED 11% AND THE
RUSSIAN RUBLE DROPPED ABOUT
2 1/2% AND FOR A POPULATION
WHERE THE AVERAGE INCOME IS
$16,000 A YEAR, ON TOP OF IT AS
WELL, THE RUSSIAN POPULATION
DON’T SEEM TO HAVE A STOMACH FOR
A CAMPAIGN INTO UKRAINE.
ONCE THE BODY BAGS START COMING
HOME PRESIDENT PUTIN IS RISKING
QUITE A LOT ACTUALLY.
HE COULD BE POTENTIALLY RISKING
HIS ENTIRE PREMIERSHIP.
JACKIE: CONGRESSMAN, I WANT TO
GO BACK TO YOU BECAUSE THERE ARE
VERY BROAD IMPLICATIONS HERE.
IT IS NOT JUST WHAT WE’RE SEEING
AT THIS MOMENT WITH PUTIN
POSSIBLY, YOU KNOW, INVADING
WITHIN THE NEXT SEVERAL HOURS OR
POSSIBLY IT WILL BE TOMORROW
MORNING WHEN WE WAKE UP AND WE
FIND OUT IT HAPPENED OVERNIGHT
BUT HE IS ALREADY LET US KNOW
THAT HE HAS GOT A STRONG
ALLIANCE WITH CHINA, WITH
PRESIDENT XI, ALSO ON FRIDAY’S
CUBA’S FOREIGN MINISTER SAID
LATE ON FRIDAY THAT THE RUSSIANS
AND CUBANS ARE DEEPENING THEIR
TIES.
THEY ARE STARTING TO EXPLORE
COLLABORATIONS IN TRANSPORTATION
AND ENERGY, INDUSTRY AND IN
BANKING AS WELL.
YOU START TO SEE WHAT VLADMIR
PUTIN IS DOING HERE AND IT’S
SCARY.
>> YEAH, THERE IS NO QUESTION IF
WE JUST SIMPLY ALLOW EVEN WITH
THE LEVEL OF SOMEWHAT UNITY THAT
HAS BEEN CREATED, AND I AGREE
WITH WHAT WAS STATED EARLIER,
NATO HAS UNIFIED OVER THIS AND
IT VERY WELL COULD END UP
BACKFIRING FOR PUTIN AS IT
SHOULD BUT WE NEED TO RISE TO
THE OCCASION AND BRING ALL OF
OUR ALLIES TOGETHER.
BUT, YES, IF WE JUST SIMPLY
DON’T GET HIGHLY AGGRESSIVE AND
BE THE LEADER IN THE WORLD THAT
WE SHOULD BE, AND ALLOW AGO
AGGRESSOR TO TAKE OVER A LESS
MILITARIZED, A WEAKER MILITARY
NATION, WHERE DOES IT GO FROM
THERE?
AND WE WILL SEE THIS WITH IRAN
AND WE WILL CERTAINLY THE BIG
ISSUE IS WITH CHINA AND POSSIBLY
TAIWAN.
JACKIE: YEAH.
>> WE’VE GOT TO SHOW AS YOU SAID
EARLIER WHO’S BOSS AND WE HAVE
THE ALLIES TO BACK UP THE
LEADERSHIP OF THE UNITED STATES.
WE NEED TO UTILIZE IT.
JACKIE: ONCE AGAIN THE WORLD IS
WATCHING.
GENTLEMEN, THANK YOU SO MUCH.