so how worried should the American public be for the Safety and Security of this country
with these classified documents and private homes of politicians
well I think everyone should be concerned these are serious violations of pretty clear rules
now how concerned you should be comes down to the damage assessment that is always done by
the FBI and the Department of Justice and other intelligence Community Partners after documents
like this are recovered they take a look at those things to see if sources and methods have been
compromised oftentimes the answer to that is no and if that's the case then it's not quite
as serious as it as it could be but these are these are clear violations according to a report
from the the dni the Director of National Intelligence back in 2017 potentially more
than a million people have access to top secret information many more have access to lower levels
of classification I mean who's policing those people in real time to be sure that they don't
take things home with them and also should there be a million people who have top secret access
well you know we along part of the problem of over classification is probably too many people have
uh have those sorts of clearances but there's something that I think we have to point out
here Anderson it is the overwhelming majority of people who have clearances don't run into these
sorts of problems because they can only look at and work with classified materials at work in
their workspace in places that are authorized to store those sorts of documents when you're
a low-level person in the intelligence Community you don't ever take anything home and if you need
to look at something in the middle of the night or on the weekends you get in your car and you
drive back into the office it is not the same for principles of organizations presidents vice
presidents heads of of executive agencies these people have a need to be able to have access to
classified material to read classified material to be briefed on classified material literally 24
hours a day so there are constantly people following them around handing them pieces
of classified whether that's at home or when traveling trap traveling overseas when you have
that much material that you're processing it's almost um well I'll say it's foreseeable that
sometimes things get put down in the wrong pile they get commingled with non-classified stuff and
you know human beings make errors and that's how we get to the situation that that we seem to be
in Andrew McCabe appreciate it thanks coming up next to the White House and CNN's Phil Mattingly
who has new reporting about the reaction there so what are you hearing from sources you know
Anderson it's been interesting there's been public silence today that's both notable and
very intentional AIDS under strict instructions not to say anything about the patents development
not to be seen as celebrating or welcoming the development in any way but behind the scenes
officials making clear that they believe there are very clear parallels here and parallels as
one official told me that are quote very helpful in the sense of demonstrating that
perhaps this is a more common issue than the Biden case in isolation demonstrated there's
also parallels in the sense of separating it even more definitively from what the former president
and Donald Trump has been going through both Pence and Biden immediately reporting these issues to
authorities neither Pence nor Biden intending to take these documents home and making clear
they weren't aware they were there in the first place the idea right now is that while they're
not going to talk about this publicly you're not going to hear the President weigh in on the
Pence issue at all they believe that as this continues to move forward it will have clear
benefits in underscoring that this is not just an issue for President Biden this is an issue
that's perhaps a little bit more widespread have officials given you any sense what happens next
you know I think the big question right now going forward is the White House is clearly not going
to change the strategy that they've been following but I do think that they're very cognizant of both
the political and legal Dynamics at this point in time politically White House officials keeping a
very close eye on the very Republicans who have been attacking President Biden for this trying to
see how they responded to the Pence developments obviously there's an idea right now that being
able to hold Pence and Biden kind of separate from former president Donald Trump is effective and
helpful as well but on the legal side of things I think Jamie made some interesting points there
are real questions about what happens next clearly there's a special counsel investigating President
Biden that is not going to change but what does the justice department do with the Pence issue
that they're now reviewing is there any precedent here what happens next are open questions one
thing we know for sure the white house isn't changing its strategy neither legal nor their
public strategy not really weighing in on this not talking about this focusing instead on the
president's agenda in fact Anderson behind closed doors today President Biden met with Democratic
leaders their discussion was about the agenda the president's second economic speeches he's planning
on giving in the weeks ahead one source told me there's no discussion at all about classified
documents in that meeting inside the White House Bill Madding I appreciate him thank you with me
here tonight CNN's newest commentator former New York Democratic Congressman munder Jones
also CNN political commentator Alyssa Farah Griffin who served as White House director of
Communications in the previous administration uh Congressman it's great to have you here
um so does the Mike Pence Revelation does it does it help the Biden White House yeah I think it does
I do think that there are clear distinctions now if you group Pence and Biden in one category and
the former president Donald Trump who did not honor a lawfully issued subpoena and as a result
had to have those things taken back by the FBI and returned to the National Archives I think as
a political matter it is a gift to the president that the same situation happened but you know just
taking a step back it is always problematic when classified materials do not remain in classified
settings and so I think you'll see Congress take a look at what can be done to make sure this doesn't
happen or at least is less likely to happen moving forward when I was a former member when I was a
member of Congress we went into a skiff a secure facility very aggressively we were asked to you
know deposit our cell phones and any other things we were it was ensured that we did not leave that
facility with any classified material and so it is difficult to see how this has happened
so often except that they are the principles and when you're the former vice president you kind of
walk around with this stuff so Alyssa you worked with former vice president were you surprised that
it happened to him so I was surprised first and foremost I think Mike Pence is a man of integrity
and he's a very responsible and serious person in the Trump White House he was somebody who I trust
to do things by the book more than anyone else on that campus and frankly it kind of makes Biden's
case for him which is that accidents happen um the thing that stood out to me knowing Mike
Pence just to give an example when I worked for him he would often have us do briefings in the
situation room out of an abundance of caution in case we discussed something that was classified
even if that wasn't the intent because he took classification so seriously so this indicates to
me this was a mistake most likely a staff error but keep in mind the timing of this this is you
know kind of a hasty transition after January 6th my guess is that he was not packing boxes
heading you know getting ready for a transition in that period and staff were rushed to do it
last minute and that's how it was able to happen it does Congressman there's certainly a lot of
selective outrage on both sides I mean the politics obviously plays a role in how both
sides react to this we see it on Republicans and Democrats I think in this context we've not seen
selective outrage on the Democratic side I thought it was remarkable that Senator Blumenthal Senator
manchin and Senator Durbin were quite um they were not generous in their characterizations
of of uh President Biden's mishandling and of course it could have been a staff error
uh and so even even saying that President Biden himself mishandled these materials I think is is
premature until such time as a determination is made by the justice department but we do
know that Donald Trump refused request after request to the point where a subpoena had to be
issued and the FBI had to go into Mar-A-Lago and take those documents back because he refused he
insisted on keeping those documents listen do you think this the the discovery of the Pence
documents that it uh influences the case against the investigation of the former
president's documents well it's obviously very different I think that the Biden and the Pence
case are probably more similar in the sense that they're both fully it seems fully cooperating at
what we know at this time the foreign president it's a different it's a different ballpark I mean
he was obstructing there was trying to get these documents for months and months and I hope that
the justice department looks at them based done just the facts as they play out but one thing
I want to note to Andy McCabe's point is this may be a bigger problem than we think that it
is it's not just presidents and vice presidents who always have classified documents with them
the secretaries of defense the former secretaries of States national security advisors the universe
of people who have the ability to leave the complex with documents is actually quite large
and clearly there is no process for policing the chain of custody for these documents which
do expose grave National Security risks Melissa Fair Griffin appreciate him under Jones thank you