In the name of Allah, the merciful and the compassionate
As-salaam Alaykum, I am Mohammad Hassan Ilyas
presenting this program from the Ghamidi Center of Islamic Learning
We are fortunate and favored by God to have Pakistan's one of distinguished
and prominent name - a name that is taken with respect, reverence, by people who are
familiar with our culture, our language, and with our ancient traditions and values that
that have been born on our soil - they are all familiar with her personality,
and also gain from her knowledge.
Through her, Pakistan has been recognized globally, and
this scholar not only enlightened people on the rights of women in Pakistan,
and she has also promoted the Urdu language, and maintained
the ethical education, training, and manners of our culture.
It is my good fortune and everyone's good fortune that we
got to invite her to the Ghamidi Center on her visit to America - Dr. Arifa Sayed.
As-salaam Alaykum, Ma'am. [Dr Sayed] Waʿalaykumu s-salam.
Hope you are doing well?
[Dr Sayed] Thank you for such a gracious introduction. I'm doing very well.
It's your humbleness. In today's time when there is an atmosphere of chaos,
the critical issues that people are talking about,
We see that even in the Pakistani media, your point of view comes to the fore.
First of all, do tell everyone about your acquaintance with us
as you know Mr.Ghamidi because
he lived in Lahore and you have also lived there all your life.
Tell us how you met him, your opinion and impressions about him.
[Dr Sayed] We had a slight acquaintance when he was studying in a Government college,
He is a man of knowledge, forbearance, and taste.
I got to know he studies English and talks about philosophy,
it was delightful to know someone who talks about literature and philosophy,
And it is an indication of a man that he wishes to live life with love.
Because I like life itself very much
and I am a sinner - I also like the world very much,
Because if this world was not there then there would be no meaning in life.
That's how I got to know him, slowly, with time.
Fortunately, when I went to Islamabad
as the chairperson of the National Commission
there he was a member of the Islamic Ideology Council at that time.
Don't ask how all the wishes of the heart
and all questions of the mind were gratefully answered.
I am so thankful to him and his knowledge, that I can't tell you.
And the other very good thing about him is that
that he doesn't say anything that cannot be understood by argument, logic and reason.
In today's time, it has been understood that when you talk about good philosophy,
about Islam and its diverse religious schools,
or talk about fundamentals,
then there must be roughness and strictness in your temperament.
Mr. Ghamidi overturned this notion.
And people like me were convinced
that nothing can illuminate Islam better than this.
SubhanAllah!
When we talk about life ... and I know one more thing in my specific situation that
at present, people who call themselves
religious leaders and also political leaders
have brought us to a stand where
religion has become reduced to a few customs and rituals.
People like me were lucky because I was brought up in a good, happy family,
even though I had no say in it or choice.
But the benefit from that was
we understood that rituals and practices aren't Islam.
The religion is based on principles, no matter which corner
of the world you live in,
wear any dress, or eat any food,
however when you think, it should be based only on principle.
That's why the thing that will never change is the religion of my Lord.
SubhanAllah! Incredible.
I feel glad to know that you have known him for such a long time.
Dr. Sahiba, do tell us that now we would like to introduce you
as a way of an example to our new generation
you have seen Pakistan being built
and had a keen eye on its changes and social development.
The clamor which we opened our eyes in, in the era of the 90s,
when we look back, our country seems to have changed a lot.
That is, whatever there was before,
some values and some ethics were there to be seen,
even if it was for mere pretense, it was visible to us.
For example, if a guest came over, whatever money there is,
it will be given to the child
And they will be shown hospitality:
with tea and conversations happening among them
there would be affection among them, formality was there to be witnessed.
Now we get to Pakistan,
everyone, sort of, behaves rudely, unkind behavior, and is always in haste.
On a societal level, do you feel our country has changed a lot?
[Dr. Sayed] Yes, it has changed.
Like, an illiterate person has a quality that whether he knows something or not,
he will still speak. I've been a witness to it
I've mentioned this a lot, and what bothers me the most is
that South Asian Muslims have a firm, energetic cultural heritage.
This is no legend but a legacy that exists.
And in this legacy, tolerance and humility were crucial things.
I am a Muslim from South Asia,
I have learned to live with other religions,
I have learned to respect other languages,
you might disagree with other people's standards
that's fine, but there can be no room for enmity with them.
And I think I have been talking about this for a long time,
maybe you can explain it better
that we ask each other those questions, which are the right only of Allah to ask.
A significant point you've said.
We don't even ask questions that we could ask each other,
or we don't do the things we could do for each other.
There is a great fear among people,
which can only give birth to terror, hatred, and anger.
The wonder in approbation is that it creates affection, and tolerance in you.
It is not necessary to accept it, but it is essential not to insult it.
But we adopted the path of insult.
Then it will only lead to conflicts and nothing else.
That's why I will keep saying that the education which is being given
in today's world can get very good employment
but education has been severed from training in manners.
And once it gets separated from training in etiquette and manners,
that's why neither they understand the meaning of life,
nor does one fall in love with life, nor does life seems precious.
Yes, correct. Dr. Sahiba, what you said very valuable,
do tell us that in our country, at least, we had one language,
a language that you know better than anyone else,
comes with a complete knowledge tradition and heritage,
historical legacy of our past - it connects us with how we identify ourselves.
We let go of Farsi and Arabic languages,
and now Urdu is fading away and we aren't so efficient in English.
What do you think about the worldview of children growing up in Pakistan?
This means what children are raised with, what he wants to do, this distance from
the tongue that has arisen
Also, tell me that the distance has been
created because generally, people claim that
they are still anyway speaking Urdu.
So, where has this distance from our language led us?
[Dr. Sayed] You have very aptly said about being away from language,
There's an expression I always say, I will repeat it for you too.
"The land of imagination is language".
SubhanAllah!
When you do not have the means for language,
your imagination will come to an end.
You and I cannot think without words,
when we think, words become concepts, and when we speak, words become form.
Now the situation is that if
imagination is adequate then so will be the form,
and if imagination isn't right, then forget about the form.
It is a pity that the English of which we sing such praises,
and you can see my rebellion;
I take from English, while I sing praises of Urdu.
I sing praises of Urdu because
it is a language that has not only
taken on the literature/manners and vocabulary of other languages,
but also retained that original impact and influence on society.
When you speak Urdu, you get the idea
that it is not the language of
a particular section, community, group, or nation
it is the language of a culture.
Urdu has done a tremendous job
as it has made the culture stand embodied before us.
While we became unfamiliar with Urdu, now we also make fun of it.
Whoever makes mockery of his own language and culture,
there is no scope for them in today's world.
This is what has happened to us.
We are prey to fear.
Although we fight quite well, we cannot speak.
Right. Please tell us, Dr. Sahiba - that you have spoken about the rights of women.
The movement you fashioned at the ideological level as well as at the public level
wherever you got a chance, you raised your voice.
That this division that existed here (in the subcontinent) was so harmful to us,
the time has come for its end to be seen.
And about women's empowerment. That gives girls the message that
they have their individuality, their own unique position.
So they move forward in life and play their role in society.
Have you seen some improvement in Pakistan recently,
in its results for education, in terms of women's self-sufficiency?
[Dr. Sayed] If we look a little deeper, I might give you a very negative answer
that I can't see much progress. But the development has happened.
It has happened because the opportunities
for advancement of human rights that were created by conflicts
there a change occurred in the mindset of the girls' parents,
Then it reached them, but it couldn't have happened if the effort wasn't supported
by the society. It couldn't have blossomed if this value was not supported.
Therefore, I like to say one more thing.
I don't call these women's rights as they are called human rights.
SubhanAllah!
Why isn't a woman a human? Do her rights come from somewhere else?
My own people are disappointed with me, and the others are unhappy.
But this is a matter of human rights.
This is another thing that Allah has created me
as a woman with certain specific qualities and characteristics.
I have a physical form that has a different shape and appearance.
But because I have a different shape and appearance does not mean
my moral existence is distinct.
When a soldier goes to fight on the battlefield,
does he fight with his height? or weight? with his eyes? or ears?
No, he fights with strength, determination, and courage.
Then that also exists in a woman.
And as much as she fights hard in life, men do not fight so hard.
And when my Lord has set up the scale of punishment and reward,
he did not say that all women will go to hell. As some scholars of today claim.
While all of you (that is men) will reside in paradise. Allah didn't say this.
He said whoever does this will face this consequence:
that this is the path of those who have earned God's favour,
and that is the path of those who earned his wrath,
now choose whichever way you want.
SubhanAllah, incredible. The final question, Dr. Sahiba, please tell us,
what message will you give to the young children in our community?
At this time, you know that the wonders
of technology are growing rapidly all over the world.
Things like career orientation, degrees, colleges, universities, education, jobs,
and the overall structure that has been built.
While the dynamic of the times is clear; we cannot live without money/resources.
So in this era we see there is a race - we have to go to school,
then university and bear the burden of schooling.
And we have to run the system and workshop of the world
and arrange for their necessities.
What will you tell the young generation about what life is,
and what its reality is. That you are doing all of this
what else is there to do after this that will lead to your ultimate goal?
That you can reach the pinnacle of human dignity that you possess.
[Dr Sayed] Unfortunately, when I was growing up, in some year before Christ,
training in manners was a mandatory part of education.
Nobody knew anything about just education. Until it influences
and is imbued with those value and manages to reach deep within you.
It was instilled within you. Today, you see that, I am sorry to say, but
we have taught our young generation to get embroiled in a frenzy.
For example, If you can't answer a question, raise your voice,
if you can't solve a problem, hold a protest,
you are angry with someone, start abusing them.
So, the elements of good manners that our elders had instilled in us
have been lost in our young generation.
I only tell them one thing; you've reached this stage and
your blood is hot, your feelings are pure,
and your heart is beating in the right place.
Then don't get caught in the blind following.
I like Islam so much because it does not encourage blind following.
Everyone should understand it to the extent they can.
If they will understand only that small part, then I would say to today's youth;
Life is a reward, not a punishment.
Many people consider life to be a punishment. I believe it is a favour.
What is my stature? And why should I be given a chance to live?
I will say with great respect and humility
that I am from the first generation of Pakistan.
And I have seen a prosperous, peaceful, tolerant Pakistan, and by erasing this,
today we think that we have become strong.
If power is only measured by physical strength
and oppression is the means to achieve it, then only wrestlers should rule.
But is life to be governed by rational values, empathy, and civilized behaviour,
Manners are not the name of anything demanding.
Manners are the name of choice.
The power of discrimination that Allah has promised us;
we have given you so that you can excel - this is not impossible for my youth.
And one thing, Professor Qarrar Hussain's name you must have heard,
one thing I remember from him is:
Personality-oriented societies are idolatorous societies.
And we must stay away from idolatry.
Incredible, Dr.Sahiba. We are pleased and delighted that
a such gratified opportunity we got to speak with you.
You came, our good wishes and prayers are with you.
May Allah make you successful in your mission. Thank you very much.
Thank you very much for giving me such respect.
For me, this is a moment that has stayed.
JazakAllah Khair. Thank you so much.