- I'm Nicole, this is John.
We have Marvin the Green Wing.
He's two and then Mango the sun conure is also two.
We got them both as babies.
Her issue is she's a shoulder bird,
so we wanna work on hand stuff with her.
And then him,
we eventually want a free flight.
So we wanna get a good relationship between him and John.
(techno music)
- So the main issue you're having is that she's just flying
to your shoulder wanting to stay there,
not coming down. - Yes.
- Is that the sort of thing?
- Yeah and then so we'll work on the t-stand
and like literally she'll get there
and then usually she'll jump back up, but.
- Okay.
So it almost seems like you wanna work on stationing,
where we ask her to go there
and then let her stay there for longer amount of time.
- Yeah. - Okay.
So first I wanna address what is stationing
and why are we using it in this masterclass?
- Stationing is the whole idea of getting a bird to
go to a perch whenever you wanted to go there
and ideally to stay there for a longer amount of time
until you ask the bird to come back.
- So, as you can imagine,
we kind of send Nicole home
with quite a bit of homework from this class
because it's not something we can accomplish
all of in one two hour masterclass
but it is something that
she can continually work on at home.
But stationing is great,
especially if you have an aggressive bird who tends to
like run at the cage door
and really want out quickly,
you can teach behaviors like stationing
where they go to a particular area and wait.
It is a tricky behavior to train.
So I would go ahead
and give her a click and a treat right here.
(clicker clicks)
- Right before she flew.
- Yeah, that was great.
- Yeah.
- Then actually, you can pick her up.
I'm gonna move this backwards
so you have more space to work.
She just doesn't like to do the step up.
Okay. So go ahead and tap here
and ask her to fly back to it.
(clicker clicks)
And so it's gonna help to really differentiate it
if you give it a verbal cue.
So if you wanna use
the word station- - Okay.
- [Jamie] You can just tap and say station.
So tap and then remove your hand
and see if that's enough prompt for her to understand,
okay, fly to us. - Okay.
- So next you guys are gonna see an amazing example
of the difference between using a lure effectively
and training effectively.
Now, I think that this was probably
one of the better masterclasses
where I was able to actually distinguish the two
and you guys can kind of hear me,
just hammering on Nicole a little bit.
Like, alright, time to stop using luring
and start using an actual cue so that it becomes training.
And I think a lot of people miss
what the difference is between
when you're supposed to lure
and when you're supposed to actually make it
a trained behavior.
- The important thing is that you can recognize
that you can use luring,
but you have to use it with an intention
and then phase that out and put a cue on it.
If you're only using luring,
it takes me back to like
watching Looney Tunes as a kid
where the donkey's like following
and trying to chase the carrot
and never can get the carrot.
That's what it feels like for this conure
who's just trying to chase the carrot,
but when we actually put it on a cue,
the animal is learning that it can learn.
And that's really the big difference
between luring versus training.
- Station. (clicker clicks)
Good job.
- [Jamie] So if you notice she wants to fly,
you can step forward to avoid it.
- Too slow.
(clicker clicks)
- So you've probably heard us talk about
the birdie bubble before
but there's also the birdie comfort zone.
And to illustrate that,
I'm gonna use this ring.
So if the bird is in the very center of that ring
and you were in its circle,
within the bird's bubble,
it is going to be comforted by your presence
under a lot of scenarios, not all of them,
but in most cases
this is where the bird's comfortable in that presence.
It's also gonna be engaged with you.
It's gonna be looking for you to give hand cues
but you're close enough that just your presence,
with a bird that likes you,
is going to be getting a certain amount of
reinforcement or reward.
However, there's also the birdie comfort zone
which is the outside of that.
So as long as you're within the birdie bubble
you need to be aware of your hand gestures,
but the bird is also not probably going to make a flight.
The moment you're outside of that ring
the bird is going to make a flight to get back to you,
so the bird feels comfortable.
So in other words, right here, I'm in Jamie's bubble.
But if I'm over here, just outside of the circle,
if she was a bird, she'd come on over to get that comfort.
She's not a bird.
But that is really an important thing to recognize
so that you are using your spacing,
in comparison to the bird, with intention.
- [Dave] We're gonna need a lot of reps outta her today.
- [Jamie] Yeah.
- Come super close right now.
(clicker clicks)
Giver her a treat, take a step back,
steps right there.
- So stationing in general
and just teaching it
is kind of the song and dance between figuring out
how far away you can make it from your clingy bird
without trying to get that flight to you.
And also keep the bird in a certain comfort zone
where it will actually be..
- Easy for you to say.
(Jamie laughs)
- Why'd you want me to talk?
Okay. - What she's trying to say
is you need to really pay attention
and recognize if you're so close that the bird
has no desire to jump to you.
And in this case for stationing,
use that to your advantage.
If you move so far back
and you're expecting the bird to stay
but the bird really wants to be with you,
well then moving back's not gonna be advantageous
in that scenario.
So really do your best to read your bird's body language
and work with what the bird is offering.
And since right now,
it's only offering to stay
when the human is in close proximity to the bird,
we'll start there
and then we'll expand in small approximations out
until eventually a human can be far away from the bird
and the bird is going to be content staying
and playing by itself on its own station.
- What he said?
- Mango. (clicker clicks)
- [Jamie] Oh, who's clicking?
(unintelligible)
(Jamie and Dave laughs)
- [Dave] Before you go back,
when you station her
from the furthest you think you can.
- Okay. (clicker clicks)
- [Jamie] And just try to pair it with a verbal-
- Okay. - As well.
(Dave and Jamie laugh)
- [Dave] See.
- [Jamie] Do we want her intercepting with her hand,
do you think? - [Dave] I think so, yeah.
- [Jamie] Okay, so when she does fly to you,
try to catch her with your hand so that it's not,
cause I think landing here
is just kind of a preview for her to just go.
- Station.
- [Jamie] Oh my gosh, that is the laziest.
- You're adorable. You can do it.
- [Dave] Lets not get a treat
not (indistinct) when she does it.
So again, let's reset it.
Can you put her on your other hand?
And then cue with your right?
- There's no treat there, step up.
- [Jamie] She might actually be receptive if you-
station. - Station.
(clicker clicks) Good job.
- [Dave] You're picking up when it's-
- [Jamie] No.
- Station.
- [Jamie] So reset.
- Station.
- [Jamie] Even try just going, tapping,
and then backing up.
(clicker clicks) Good.
- When you're trying to assign a new cue
to a certain behavior,
be consistent with the cue that you're giving
so that the language is really clear to your parrot.
If you're cuing with a point
and then you're cuing with a tap
and then you're cuing with a vocal cue,
the bird's not gonna understand what you're asking.
So start with what's working
and if the bird is previously been lured,
then the act of moving your hand towards the perch
and tapping on the perch
is close enough to what the lure was
that the bird might move there
because it thinks your fingers might have a treat.
So start by just tapping
and then be consistent with that.
If you're trying to offer all these different cues,
it's just not gonna work well.
Also take note from nature
that most birds communicate silently through little motions
and gestures of their feathers and body language.
So by us giving a verbal cue,
we're less likely to have success
than if we give a very obvious tapping or visual cue.
- You're so much better at these.
- Thanks.
- [Jamie] And it gets clear- - Okay.
- [Jamie] With that because
it's more closely related to targeting.
- Okay.
- [Jamie] Where you would like be holding something.
So if you can do that
and still maintain your distance
where (unintelligible)
and back up, she'll have all of her direction.
- Okay.
- [Dave] Probably wrap up this session.
- [Jamie] Okay. - [Dave] So we've got-
- [Jamie] Do you wanna end on that then?
- [Dave] I'm good with that yeah.
- [Jamie] Okay, let's end on that one.
Cause anytime we're like, let's do one more.
- So can you put her on top of the cage
and in target her in?
You remember the birdie bubble versus the comfort zone?
Well, here's a new angle
to be able to really see from the side
what I mean when I'm talking about the bird comfort zone.
Now I'm gonna actually have you take a step forward
so it avoids the flight. (clicker clicks)
Go ahead and treat,
cause she didn't fly.
Now, step back for a moment
and I'll have you step forward in just a minute,
before she has a desire to fly.
- [Jamie] So if you notice she wants to fly,
take a step forward to avoid it.
- Too slow. (clicker clicks)
- [Dave] Okay, so come super close right now.
(clicker clicks)
Then give a a treat.
Take one step back, couple steps, right there.
- We're increasing the distance while she's busy eating.
- [Dave] Yep, go and step really close.
(clicker clicks) - Good.
- [Dave] And step really far back.
Awesome.
Now go ahead and pick her up,
if you can get her to step up
or cue her to do a short flight, whichever's easier.
There you go.
She already knows to go back.
- Uh-huh.
Well, it's good cause she's enjoying
the treat back there too,
so that's gonna take up time, so.
- [Dave] Okay, let's go ahead and step back again.
This time we might ask for a recall.
Go ahead and call her. - Mango.
(clicker clicks) - [Jamie] Oh.
Good.
- [Dave] Hey. (Jamie laughs)
Hang on, before you put her back,
go ahead and see if you can station her
from like the furthest distance you think you can.
- Okay.
(clicker clicks) - Nice.
- And just come up and say station
and then back up. - Okay.
- So that that tapping,
that's what I do with- (clicker clicks)
- [Dave] Go ahead and treat that cause she's staying there.
Sorry. - That's okay.
But Rhonda has learned if I'm just like,
hey, station, station.
It's wherever I tap
and I can also move away from that place.
- Okay. - So I think that'll
be really helpful for you.
(unintelligible)
Back up and remain at that distance.
- Okay.
- No.
- Station.
- So reset.
And then just kind of do it.
- Station.
- Even try just going, tapping, and then backing up.
(clicker clicks)
- Yeah, I can explain it. - Yeah.
- You may not like it, but I'll explain it.
- You're freaking me out.
- So we found a trend with women that are blessed
and by this, I mean if the bird,
if you can stand sideways
and rest the bird on you and they'll stay,
don't reward the bird there.
We affectionately refer to this as the third shoulder.
So if you're letting the bird land on your third shoulder
and you're treating there,
you're just making this a cue.
So just simply your presence will become the cue.
So here we have to be very careful to make sure
that in this particular case
you're catching the bird on your hand
and rewarding on your hand,
not the third shoulder.
- Yeah. And in all seriousness,
you really see this at play because Nicole was like,
I'm not giving a cue for the bird to fly to her,
but I was like you are the cue.
- Meanwhile, remember when I said
they go off of visual cues.
- That's very visual.
So at our masterclasses, Dave really leads them,
and he has just the best talks ever.
And so I'm going to end this particular masterclass video
on one of his great talks about why we even train our birds
and the purpose of it
because I think it's really important.
And hopefully people watch the video all the way through
to actually get this awesome nugget.
You don't think they will.
Oh, Dave!
- Training is going to be the main language that
we have to relay to them.
And the best analogy I can give is
when I was 18 years old I toured China
and I was sitting in a restaurant trying to order food
and I'm getting mad cause I only speak English.
The waiter's getting mad cause he only speaks Chinese
and so finally I point to the picture of chow mein
and I'm like that's what I want.
And all of a sudden the lights went off
and we're like, ah, perfect.
He has a clear expectation of what I want.
I have a clear expectation of what he's going to deliver.
And that picture of the chow mein
was our promise to each other of what our expectation was.
Well, training is a series of those pictures
that we keep adding.
So as we build a picture, we're building trust.
I've got out trust with the waiter
and vice versa that we're on the same page.
And so there's kind of some hand phobias,
just general skittishness, with these two.
And I think it'll actually apply with your conure as well
and so training is really going to be that language
that bridges the gap between English
and whatever language your bird speaking.
The target training for stationing, or step up as a trick,
those are going to be the things that are really
going to bridge that gap
and create a new language that we all speak together.
The beauty of that is that if you teach how to target train
and I come up with a target stick
and do training the bird's like,
"Oh, you speak this language too."
And now we can start to build a larger relationship
with multiple people.
So if there's multiple people in the house,
we can overcome some of these hurdles like for you,
I mentioned 60, 40, you're saying it's maybe more 80, 20.
And a lot of that's going to come down to
really just building that language of training.