former fcc chair ajit pai
and the trump administration rolled back
harmful
net neutrality internet regs that was
put under place
with president obama and now biden is
considering
restoring them i would say if it ain't
broke don't fix it but i'm not in charge
joining us now to discuss ajit pai
former
fcc chair ajit wonderful to see you
again
you know i you were brave soul we ended
net neutrality and i think we saw an
explosion
on the internet of service providers and
that led into
auctions of spectrum and 5g
and everything else there was no banning
or no blocking but now
i'll ask you does it sound like
biden wants essentially to regulate the
rates of the internet providers
larry great to be with you i think the
executive order in this regard turns
that old adage on its head
even if it ain't broke fix it anyway and
the order
explicitly instructs or encourages the
fcc
in part to lower prices to reinstate
those burdensome title ii net neutrality
regulations and
you put your finger on the basic issue
is there a problem to solve here and i
would argue there isn't since we made
that decision in december of 2017
consumers fixed broadband speeds are up
over 100 percent on average
we've seen infrastructure investment
booming cell sites deployed 87 000
during 2017 to 2021. the internet
economy
is fine in that regard so that's one of
the reasons why i would be concerned
about any attempt to reinstate these
burdensome regulations just at the
moment when consumers recognize
we want better faster cheaper internet
the way to get there
isn't the heavy hand of washington
actually
you know the products have exploded
the competition has been very keen
everybody's crowding
into the commun into the communications
game it's different than the information
game
um aren't prices falling to consumers
my impression was that they are actually
falling by quite a lot
10 to 15 that's right late last year a
study came out based on independent data
from
what's called the urban rate survey that
showed that in real terms
from 2015 until 2020 consumers paid 28
less for broadband even as as i
mentioned earlier infrastructure
investment is going up speeds are going
up services are getting better
and so you have to wonder what exactly
is the impulse here it's almost a
religious truth in some quarters there's
literally no set of facts
that some advocates will accept in order
to veer off this
path of utility style regulation which
is a tremendous mistake in my
opinion i mean i think the villain here
is not the internet providers or the
telecom people
the villain here is media tech media
tech
is blocking people from coming in
media tech uh you know they want to
i don't know about the pricing but you
know
trump has been thrown off again cpac has
been thrown off again
uh youtube which is owned by google um
they wouldn't let parlor come on you
know they took the app away and they
uh de-platformed parlor and they're not
the only ones
i mean this was as i recall title one
of the fcc act but i think they're the
ones that need a little
uh a little shove in the right direction
you know it's very interesting larry uh
when we went through this negative
debate in 2017
some of the strongest voices in favor of
net neutrality back then were saying
that without these regulations
internet service providers would be
deciding what you see on the internet
and what you don't well fast forward to
2021 anyone who's been
conscious over the last 12 years and has
been involved in the digital economy
knows
that the greatest threat to an open
internet in terms of gatekeeping content
is not some of the network operators
it's some of these giant tech platforms
that's part of the reason why you see a
bipartisan groundswell of concern in
washington
around this issue and so you know i
would argue that the net neutrality
regulations are
not just a solution in search of a
problem they're a solution
regarding a completely different issue i
mean they there's no scrutiny i don't
think uh
in this regard that is uh necessary
based on the facts that we know in terms
of how the network is operating and how
infrastructure investment is proceeding
i know i like i don't think i mean this
literally but you know
metaphorically between us kids no one's
really listening to our conversation
i think you need net neutrality for
these tech media people
they're the ones who need net neutrality
they need some oversight
they're getting away with murder they
are blocking content they're doing
everything a good liberal should oppose
you know it's very interesting there's
both republicans and democrats in
washington are now talking about this
concept of full
stack neutrality essentially net
neutrality for just not just network
operators but also some of the tech
platforms
that's certainly a conversation that i
think is going to proceed in
the halls of congress and you know
perhaps in some of the agencies but for
my part at least
i would always urge regulators or
elected officials you put your finger on
what the problem is
before you try to solve it that's sort
of a basic understanding that most
american citizens have
that's not the way washington works it's
more putting your finger in the wind
as opposed to finger putting your finger
on the problem that's right it's
solution
searching for a problem that's certainly
true on the internet
well i'll just i can't answer that ajit
your wisdom is terrific i will just say
if it ain't broke don't fix
it i think the internet side is not
broken
i think the uh tech media side is broken
that's where they ought to focus there
whatever it is they're going to do ajit
pai
thank you very much we hope you'll come
back soon plenty more to be done up next