at what point do you turn off the manipulation tactics with people that
you work with or don't you so this picture this this
question i actually pulled this from a friend of mine
not a good not not someone i've known for a long time but someone that's a a
guy that i know he doesn't know me well enough but he
knows well enough to ask me this question
sure right and he actually sent me a text he's like you know i've been
thinking after listening to your podcast are you just manipulating people all the
time yeah and that's a it's a legit question right
i have that question sure yeah even echo has that question
so i obviously have talked about leadership
and influence as manipulation because that's what they
are right if i'm trying to get you to do something
you could say i'm leading you but you can also say i'm manipulating you okay
and the difference to me and i guess i've pointed out this difference before
the difference to me is that if i'm trying to do something that's going to
benefit you or benefit the team then that's
leadership or that's influence if i'm trying to get you to do something and
it's going to benefit me then that's manipulation i've talked
about that before so that being said
i am not running around in full manipulation mode all the time
i'm not i'm not constantly sitting there trying to
to plot and and make people do things i will say this though
i am generally conscious or aware or
detached enough that i can see my interactions
with other people from a good enough distance to see how i'm affecting the
situation so it's it's there you know i'm aware of
it i do have a couple friends not many
where i'm just like completely unfiltered
um some of the times some maybe even most of the time
but with most people like i said i'm at least aware of what i'm saying and what
i'm doing and how it's being received
it's modulated though and i'm not like i said i'm not sitting there
manipulating everyone that i meet and the fact of the matter is the reason is
most the time i don't care not that i don't care about them but
i don't i'm not i'm not i have no reason i am not trying to do something with
this person i'm just interacting with the person and
i like to interact with different people and i have i get along well with a lot
of different types of people from straight laced like religious
people to freaking outlaw bikers to surfers to to alcoholics
to to fitness freaks i mean i'm i'm friends with a bunch of different people
and i'm definitely not sitting around trying to manipulate them
i'm trying to enjoy and i i enjoy the various
personalities and sort of decisions and lifes that people had i learned from
them not trying to manipulate them i'm actually trying to learn from people
most of the time not manipulate um
but you know when i do get in a team setting or a business setting
or a relationship setting where now what we're doing is an interaction
of humans then i definitely
will be thinking about how my actions and reactions are affecting
the situation and i will tell you this i'm generally
only doing it for good i'm not trying to get things from
people i think you would be one to say like
yeah i'm pretty generous with what i'm trying
to do with my life and and with helping people not that i find
myself to be like some some healer or some benevolent person
that's running around not i'm not trying to say that but i'm generally when i'm
inter if i'm interacting with someone enough
that i'm in this mode i am trying to help them
right i'm trying to help us that's what i'm trying to do
so if this is manipulation to try and help
people and trying to help whatever it is i'm
doing with other people to move in the right direction if that's manipulation
i'm guilty right yeah and you see you kind of mentioned that too where you're
just you're using the word manipulation kind of
yeah i use it where most people don't like to say it right right
most people say you know what i really like to influence my friends and move
them in the right direction yeah well what is that doing yes that's
manipulating yeah so if you look at the definitions to
handle cunningly that's what manipulation is oh
nice yeah well there's another definition in there too but i think
that's a more general broad yeah but i think the
generally accepted meaning of the word manipulate is a
has a negative connotation for sure and and it
it is rightfully so because it generally when you say it
you're talking about oh joko is really manipulating echo
so what does that mean oh jack was trying to get stuff from echo he's
trying to he's trying to do stuff for his own benefit yeah
whereas if i were to say you know jocko he's been hanging out with echo a lot
and he's really having a good influence on him well guess what that's cool
oh everyone's happy now but what did i really do i really manipulated you right
i really made you act a certain way i led you
i manipulated you yeah so again i i mean maybe i need to stop using the word
manipulation but i always the reason i like to use it because i
know it i know it makes people think yeah i know it makes people see
leadership for what it is with leadership you're trying to get other
human beings to do what you want them to do
that's what you're trying to do now in the best form of leadership you're
trying to get them to want to do what you want them to do
and an even better form of leadership you're trying to get them
to do what they want to do and it happens to be what you want them to be
too to do too collectively sure that's the
goal yeah but all of those
means i'm trying to get you to do something
yeah and whether we want to call it leadership or we want to call it
influence we want to call it inspirational we want to call it
manipulation it's the same thing the only difference
being in my mind when i manipulate something
i'm trying to help myself and i don't do that right i'm not trying
to help myself yeah manipulation through other people
yeah it sounds like that it's helping yourself at their expense
exactly manipulation and influence is even more broad i think even goes
outside of manipu just because influence you can passively influence someone you
can just hang around you can possibly manipulate people too
yeah yeah yes yes you can you can absolutely passively manipulate
people like enough know you're doing it well no you can do it by not doing
something oh yeah yeah that's like passive
aggressive manipulation yes but like influence let's say we're
just cruising and we're hanging out you're not telling me you're asking me
or whatever to do something you're just being you and i'm like [ __ ] chuck was so
cool man let me let me let me roll up my yeah it's like
jacob does you know that's like that's i wouldn't call that many people
but that wouldn't be manipulation yeah but what if i intentionally was like you
know what i really need to get i really need to get echo to do x yeah
yeah and here's what i'm gonna do i'm gonna show him
i'm gonna lead yeah yeah so so and and really isn't
so that being said isn't
just being polite isn't that a low form of manipulation absolutely
if i see if i say hey would it be possible for you to you know grab that
chair for me what do you mean would it be possible
we know that's possible yes i'm an adult we know it's possible i know what
possible means why did you say if possible why did i
say that because i want you to feel good
defensive you want to feel good you want you want to feel you know it that's like
you know it absolutely is it's interacting with other people right
so you have to show some form of if we want to use the word manipulation
which we do obviously um yeah you're always doing it so in a way
it's pretty rare you're going to turn it off
yeah really yeah really and so i guess to answer the question once again
do i ever turn it off not really am i walking around trying to manipulate
people and get them to fall under my spell of destruction
hell no i'm just a normal guy that's interacting with people on a
regular way and when i'm dealing with people in an
interactive situation i'm aware of the way i'm acting and how
it affects the situation that's it and you happen to be pretty
effective i i in a positive way though how you
turned out like if it's for the goal of the collection
right right it's not a malevolent yes it is not all right so really the
answer the question is not really that's the question
i like the way you put that