>> GOOD-BYE, CHUCK TODD WITH AN AMAZING SIGN OFF.
WE BEGIN TONIGHT WITH A LOT TO
GET TO, BUT ALSO WHAT IS
CLEARLY, I CAN TELL YOU THIS
TONIGHT, THE CLUES AND THE SIGNS
AND THE EVIDENCE TURN INGING IN
MUELLER PROBE.
MUELLER PROBE. A MAN WHO HAS BEEN UNDER
SCRUTINY FOR TWO YEARS STRUCK A
TONE THAT I’LL LET YOU DECIDE
FOR YOURSELF.
FOR YOURSELF. HE LOOKED ALMOST DELIBERATELY
BLAISE ABOUT HOW THIS MUELLER
REPORT COULD COME OUT SOON.
>> MR. PRESIDENT, SHOULD THE
MUELLER REPORT BE RELEASED?
>> THAT WILL BE TOTALLY UP TO
THE NEW ATTORNEY GENERAL.
HE’S A TREMENDOUS MAN, A
TREMENDOUS PERSON WHO REALLY
RESPECTS THIS COUNTRY AND
RESPECTS THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT
SO THAT WILL BE TOTALLY UP TO
HIM, NEW ATTORNEY GENERAL.
>> TOTALLY UP TO HIM, AS IF THIS
WAS NOT A PRESIDENT WHO GETS
INVOLVED, DONALD TRUMP FAMOUSLY
WANTED TO FIRE JEFF SESSIONS FOR
NOT DEFENDING HIM ENOUGH AGAINST
THIS LAWFUL RUSSIA PROBE.
NOW HE CLAIMS HE’S HANDS OFF,
BUT IT’S HIS HAND-PICKED
ATTORNEY GENERAL WHO, OF COURSE,
WILL DECIDE ALL OF THIS.
IF YOU LOOK AT THE PRESIDENT
THERE -- WE DON’T DO A LOT OF
BODY LANGUAGE ON THIS SHOW.
HE, AT LEAST, SEEMS TO BE
PLAYING THE ROLE OF SOMEONE WHO
DOESN’T WANT TO LOOK TENSE.
HE SEEMS LIKE A MAN WHO IS
TRYING TO SHOW SOME LACK OF
WORRY AS TO WHERE THIS IS
HEADED.
HEADED. THIS WAS NOT IN A BUBBLE.
IT WAS SIX DAYS AGO WE GOT THE
VISION OF BILL BARR FACING THE
CHIEF JUSTICE AND THE MAN WHO HE
IS INVESTIGATING AND THE MAN
THAT MUELLER HAS BEEN
INVESTIGATING.
INVESTIGATING. LAST NIGHT, TRUMP OFFICIALLY
NOMINATED BARR’S DEPUTY TO
REPLACE THE MAN WHO HAD BEEN
OVERSEEING THIS, THE MOST FAMOUS
DEPUTY ATTORNEY GENERAL IN
AMERICAN HISTORY, ROD
ROSENSTEIN.
ROSENSTEIN. MEANWHILE, NBC NOTED THAT
ROSENSTEIN WOULD ONLY STEP DOWN,
WOULD ONLY LEAVE AFTER MUELLER
FINISHED HIS WORK.
NOW TODAY THAT’S NOT ALL, AS I
MENTIONED IN CLUES.
WE’RE INTERESTED IN THE EVIDENCE
NOT THE RUMORS.
THE CLUES HE MAY BE WRAPPING
THINGS UP COMES FROM HERE, A
REPORT ON CNN THAT THREE DAYS
LAST WEEK, THERE WERE WORKERS
PUSHING A CART OF FILES OUT OF
THEIR OFFICE AND THE GRAND JURY
WHICH INDICTED STONE, MANAFORT
AND OTHERS HAVEN’T ACTUALLY MET
IN WEEKS.
IN WEEKS. THE LAST THING THEY DID WERE THE
CHARGES AGAINST STONE.
IN SOME OF THE BIG CASES MOVING
FORWARD, WE’VE SEEN OTHER
OFFICES THAT COULD TAKE A
HANDOFF AND THEN YOU HAVE ALL
THIS OTHER ACTION I WANT TO TELL
YOU ABOUT TODAY BEFORE WE BRING
IN OUR EXPERTS, A NEW YORK JUDGE
GRANTING MICHAEL COHEN MORE TIME
BEFORE REPORTING TO PRISON AND
HIS ATTORNEY SAY INGING HE IS ST
PREPARING TO TESTIFY.
THIS IS A PROSECUTION THAT
ORIGINALLY BEGAN WITH THE
MUELLER PROBE AND ENDED UP IN
NEW YORK.
NEW YORK. ROGER STONE GOES FACE TO FACE
TOMORROW WITH A JUDGE HE AT
LEAST MOKD ONLINE, MAYBE WORSE.
QUET IS WHETHER HE VIOLATED A
GAG ORDER.
GAG ORDER. THE HANDOFF, LAWYERS AT THE
D.C.’S U.S. ATTORNEY’S OFFICE
ARE INVOLVED.
ARE INVOLVED. THEY COULD CONTINUE IF MUELLER
WRAPS UP.
WRAPS UP. HE HAS BEEN ON THIS NONSTOP
MEDIA BLITZ FOR WEEKS AND
CLAIMED MEMORABLY THAT HE FELT
THIS WAS OVERBOARD, THIS WAS
SOMEHOW A PROBLEM, THE LAWFUL
ARREST THAT YOU SEE ON YOUR
SCREEN AT HIS HOME IN FLORIDA
WHEN THEY EXECUTED THE LAWFUL
ARREST WARRANT.
ARREST WARRANT. COMPARE THAT VIDEO OF STONE’S
ARREST WITH HIS OWN ONLINE
ATTACKS ON A FEDERAL JUDGE WHO
WILL DECIDE TOMORROW HIS FATE.
YOU CAN ASSESS FOR YOURSELF WHAT
WAS REALLY INAPPROPRIATE, WHAT
WAS REALLY A POTENTIAL THREAT.
TOMORROW IS A BIG, BIG DAY IN
THE MUELLER PROBE, NO MATTER
WHAT.
WHAT. WHAT WE DON’T KNOW TONIGHT IS IF
IT COULD BE ONE OF THE LAST BIG
DAYS, ONE OF THE LAST BIG
HEARINGS AS MUELLER IS STILL
FORMALLY ON THE JOB.
LET’S GET IT WITH PEOPLE WHO
KNOW THEIR WAY AROUND THESE VERY
INTRICATE ISSUES.
INTRICATE ISSUES. FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR, WHO
ALSO REPRESENTED DONALD TRUMP’S
DEPUTY CAMPAIGN CHAIR, RICK
GATES, IN THE MUELLER PROBE AND
BRINGS THAT IMPORTANT RELEVANT
EXPERIENCE.
EXPERIENCE. AND FOR THE WIDER VIEW OF THE
POLITICS OF ALL OF THIS, BECAUSE
THE ENDING OF ANY MUELLER PROBE
WILL HAVE A LOT OF ACTION, A
GOVERNOR, A DOCTOR, HOWARD DEAN.
HOW ARE YOU DOING, GOVERNOR?
>> I’M DOING GREAT.
>> NICE TO SEE YOU.
WE’LL GET TO YOU.
FLANNERY, I BEGIN WITH YOU BASED
ON THE CLUES, STIPULATING WHAT
WE DON’T KNOW, WHAT DO YOU SEE
IS SIGNIFICANT ABOUT WHERE THIS
IS HEADED NOW?
>> I HAD A DIFFERENT REACTION.
WHEN YOU TALKED ABOUT ALL THE
DOCUMENTS BEING PACKED UP AND
LEAVING THE OFFICE, ALL I COULD
THINK OF WAS WATERGATE, IN WHICH
THE TEAM TOOK DOCUMENTS OFF
THE -- OUT OF THE OFFICE BECAUSE
THEY FEARED WHAT WOULD HAPPEN TO
THE OFFICE IF IT WOULD BE SHUT
DOWN AND ALL THAT THEY HAD
GOTTEN WOULD BE LOST.
SO, I DON’T KNOW.
THERE’S BEEN SO MANY ADVANCES IN
TERMS OF SEARCH WARRANTS AND
DATA THAT THEY FOUND, IT STILL
DOESN’T FEEL LIKE THEY WOULD DO
IT EXCEPT OUT OF COMPULSION, TO
ISSUE A REPORT NOW.
I THINK IT’S AN EVOLVING THING.
THE WAY ANY INVESTIGATION WORK,
YOU GET A MORE PRECISE PICTURE
AS TIME GOES ON.
I’M SURE MUELLER HAS WORKED THAT
WAY.
WAY. WHETHER HE WILL HAVE A REPORT IM
IMMINENT
IMMINENT IMMINENTLY.
IMMINENTLY. >> ARE YOU HOPING OR THEORIZING?
>> I’M THEORIZING.
I’M ANALYZING THE FACTS AS YOU
HAVE THEM AVAILABLE AND
PRESENTED THEM.
PRESENTED THEM. >> WITH A GRIN TOO BOOT.
>> YES.
>> YES. I’M A HAPPY GUY.
>> YOU KNOW, HE’S A HAPPY
LAWYER.
LAWYER. ANN MARIE, I THINK JOHN IS
MAKING WHAT FOR MANY CRITICS OF
DONALD TRUMP WOULD SAY IS A BEST
CASE SCENARIO.
CASE SCENARIO. WHAT WE DO HERE IS REPORT THE
WAY THINGS LOOK.
THERE IS EVIDENCE, AS I’VE JUST
GONE THROUGH, THAT THERE’S AT
LEAST A POSSIBILITY OF MUELLER
WRAPPING UP WITHOUT MORE
INDICTMENTS.
INDICTMENTS. THAT DOESN’T MEAN THERE MIGHT
NOT BE A REPORT WITH ALL KINDS
OF BAD STUFF ABOUT DONALD TRUMP
THAT THE HOUSE MIGHT WANT TO
CONSIDER, A LOT OF ACTIVITIES,
BASICALLY TAKEN BY ANY OTHER
HUMAN THEY WOULD BE CALLED
OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE.
WHAT DOES OUR CONSTITUTIONAL
SYSTEM DO WHEN THE PRESIDENT IS
THAT HUMAN?
THAT HUMAN? DO YOU SEE IT A LITTLE
DIFFERENTLY?
DIFFERENTLY? YOU WERE THE PERSON ON THE PANEL
WHO HAS INTERACTED WITH THESE
MUELLER FOLKS.
MUELLER FOLKS. >> IT MAY BE A VERY GOOD CHANCE
THAT IT MAY BE WINDING DOWN.
ALTHOUGH IT’S VERY DIFFICULT TO
SAY.
SAY. WE’RE ALWAYS READING THE TEA
LEAVES, FIGURING OUT WHAT’S
HAPPENING.
HAPPENING. THEY HAVE A NEW ATTORNEY GENERAL
WHO IS NOW IN CHARGE OF THIS
INVESTIGATION.
INVESTIGATION. MUELLER REPORTS TO HIM.
HE MAY SAY ENOUGH, SHUT IT DOWN,
WE’RE DONE.
WE’RE DONE. AND THAT MAY WELL BE WHY THEY’RE
TAKING BOXES OUT BUT IT MAY ALSO
CONTINUE FOR SOME TIME.
IT’S VERY HARD TO TELL.
>> AS A PROSECUTOR, YOU DEAL
WITH ALL KINDS OF PEOPLE TRYING
TO BREAK THE LAW AND GET’ WITH
AN WITH IT.
CRIME AND COVER-UP.
LISTEN TO ANOTHER CELEBRATED
ATTORNEY WHO ROSE ALL THE WAY TO
ACTING DIRECTOR OF FBI.
NOT BACKWARD LOOKING ABOUT WHAT
ANDY McCABE SAID HE SAW IN HIS
BOOK BUT THE CRIMINAL OVERLAP IN
THE WAY THAT TRUMP DOES
BUSINESS.
BUSINESS. TAKE ALOOK.
TAKE ALOOK. >> THIS IS CLASSIC KIND OF
CRIMINAL ENTERPRISE BEHAVIOR,
RIGHT?
RIGHT? YOU HAVE A STRONG LEADER WHO
RULES BY FORCE OF WILL AND
PERSONALITY, WHO DEMANDS
UNQUESTIONED LOYALTY FROM THOSE
PEOPLE AROUND HIM.
HE HAS GOT TO BE SURE THAT
PEOPLE ARE ON HIS SIDE.
IF YOU’RE NOT ON HIS SIDE YOU’RE
AGAINST HIM.
AGAINST HIM. AND IF YOU DON’T HAVE THAT, IT’S
A THREAT TO HIS VERY EXISTENCE.
THOSE ARE SOME OF THE SAME
TRAITS I SAW INTERACTING WITH
THE PRESIDENT AND THE FOLKS IN
HIS ADMINISTRATION.
HIS ADMINISTRATION. >> WHAT’S NOTABLE ABOUT THAT,
THAT IS NOT MERE CRITICISM.
THAT IS NOT JUST PUNDITRY.
THAT IS A WINDOW INTO THE
MIND-SET OF SOMEONE WHO WAS
ACTUALLY AT ONE POINT MAKING
SURE THERE WAS INVESTIGATION OF
THIS PRESIDENT.
THIS PRESIDENT. WHAT YOU HEARD FROM HIM, DOES
THAT SOUND TO YOU LIKE THE WAY
THAT THE PROSECUTORS YOU DEALT
WITH IN THIS PROBE WERE
APPROACHING THIS OR COULD IT END
UP WITH THEM SAYING THERE’S A
LOT OF STUFF WE DON’T LIKE BUT
WE’RE NOT CALLING IT A CRIMINAL
ENTERPRISE?
ENTERPRISE? >> IT’S HARD TO SAY.
I ONLY DEALT WITH THE RICK GATES
ISSUE WITH THE SPECIAL COUNSEL’S
TEAM.
TEAM. WE DIDN’T TALK ABOUT ANYTHING
OTHER THAN THAT.
YOU HAVE TO REMEMBER, TOO, WHEN
YOU’RE LOOKING AT McCABE, THE
INSPECTOR GENERAL FOUND THAT HE
LIED ON A NUMBER OF INSTANCES.
>> SURE.
>> SURE. >> AND HE’S TRYING TO PORTRAY
THINGS IN A WAY THAT’S FAVORABLE
FOR HIM SO PEOPLE FEEL SORRY FOR
HIM.
HIM. >> DO YOU THINK HE’S LYING NOW?
>> IT’S HARD TO SAY.
THIS GUY HAS LIED SO MANY TIMES
YOU SORT OF --
>> IT’S NOT THAT HARD TO SAY.
ARE YOU JUST MENTIONING
SOMETHING TO DISCREDIT HIM OR
ARE YOU SAYING THAT WHAT HE’S
SAYING NOW IS LYING?
I WOULD APPRECIATE A STRAIGHT
ANSWER.
ANSWER. >> I DON’T TRUST HIM.
I TEND TO BE A LITTLE CYNICAL.
WHEN SOMEBODY HAS LIED UNDER
OATH I DON’T TRUST WHAT THEY
SAY.
SAY. I TAKE EVERYTHING THAT THEY SAY
WITHOUT PUTTING A LOT OF STOCK
INTO IT.
INTO IT. I ALSO LOOK AT THE CIRCUMSTANCE
THAT HE’S IN.
HE’S TRYING TO GET HIMSELF OUT
OF TROUBLE.
OF TROUBLE. >> STILL THE OPEN PROBE IN D.C.?
>> ABSOLUTELY.
>> ABSOLUTELY. >> IMPORTANT CONTEXT YOU BRING.
GOVERNOR DEAN, YOUR VIEWS ON ANY
AND ALL OF THE ABOVE IN TERMS OF
HOW IT WILL PLAY IN A TOWN THAT
HAS BECOME OBSESSED WITH
WHATEVER COMES OUT OF THE FBI?
>> IT’S TOO EARLY TO SAY.
WE LOVE TO SPECULATE ABOUT THIS.
IT’S CERTAINLY HIGH DRAMA,
PARTICULARLY WHEN McCABE SAID HE
HAD AN INVESTIGATION JUST TO SEE
IF THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED
STATES WAS A RUSSIAN ASSET.
THAT’S SOMETHING WE’VE NEVER
HEARD IN THE HISTORY OF THE
REPUBLIC AS FAR AS I CAN TELL,
OR ANY OTHER FOREIGN ASSET.
MUELLER HAS RUN A QUIET
INVESTIGATION WITH VIRTUALLY NO
LEAKS WHATSOEVER.
LEAKS WHATSOEVER. WE CAN SPECULATE ALL WE WANT.
THERE IS ACTUALLY,
UNFORTUNATELY, VERY LITTLE
EVIDENCE TO COME TO ANY
CONCLUSION, I THINK, AT THIS
POINT ABOUT WHAT’S GOING TO BE
IN THE INVESTIGATION AND WHEN
IT’S GOING TO APPEAR.
>> LET ME ASK YOU, JOHN, ON
ROGER STONE, ANOTHER BIG PIECE
OF THIS.
OF THIS. AGAIN, YOU CAN DO THE THOUGHT
EXPERIMENT.
EXPERIMENT. IF AN AIDE TO GEORGE BUSH OR
BARACK OBAMA WAS INDICTED FOR
ALL THIS TERRIBLE STUFF AND THEN
BASICALLY WENT AND DID THESE
REALLY REMARKABLY IRRESPONSIBLE
ATTACKS ON THE JUDGE, AND NOW
TOMORROW THE JUDGE WILL RULE
AND, TO PUT IT IN SIMPLE TERMS,
HE COULD GET A WARNING.
HE COULD GET AN EVEN MORE
RESTRICTED GAG ORDER.
HE COULD GET AN ANKLE BRACELET
LIKE THE RAPPER RICK ROSS, IF
YOU REMEMBER HIS ANKLE BRACELET.
HE COULD GET A FINE OR JAIL.
WHAT DO YOU THINK IS GOING TO
HAPPEN THERE?
HAPPEN THERE? >> IF I WERE THE JUDGE -- I’M
SURE THE JUDGE HAS CONSIDERED
THIS.
THIS. PART OF HIS STORY IS THAT SOME
AIDE DID THIS.
THAT IS SUGGESTING, YOU KNOW, HE
CALLS IT A CELTIC CROSS, NEXT TO
A PICTURE, AND SOME AIDE DID
THAT WITHOUT CONSULTING WITH
HIM?
HIM? I WOULD WANT THAT PERSON ON THE
CARPET TO TELL ME IF THAT
CONVERSATION HAPPENED BECAUSE I
DON’T BELIEVE A THING THAT COMES
OUT OF HIS MOUTH.
I DON’T THINK ANYBODY ELSE DOES
EITHER.
EITHER. THE TRICKSTER, LIAR,
MANIPULATOR.
MANIPULATOR. AND HE PROBABLY NEVER EXPECTED
IT WOULD GET CAUGHT UP, THAT HE
WOULD GET AWAY WITH IT.
WHEN HE DID, HE TOOK IT DOWN BUT
PUT UP THE PICTURE AGAIN, THEN
TOOK DOWN THE PICTURE, THEN
APOLOGIZED WHEN HE WAS CAUGHT.
THESE CONVERSIONS ON THE EDGE OF
BEING PUNISHED ARE IMPORTANT.
IF I WERE THE JUDGE, I WOULD BE
SCRUTINIZING EVERYTHING HE SAYS
AND I WOULD CONSIDER CHANGING
THE CONDITIONS OF HIS RELEASE,
NO MATTER WHAT HE SAID.
ON TOP OF THAT, IF I SUSPECTED
HE WAS LYING, AS IS HIS COURSE,
I THINK I MIGHT SUGGEST HE SPEND
A COUPLE OF DAYS AT THE FEDERAL
EXPENSE INSTEAD OF WHEREVER HE’S
LIVING RIGHT NOW.
>> RIGHT.
>> RIGHT. ANY TIME IN JAIL MAY
DISENFRANCHISE HIM THAT THIS IS
A SET, A STAGE.
ANN MARIE, YOUR CLIENT, THAT
DIDN’T STOP HIM FROM GOING OUT.
MANAFORT GUILTY, GATES GUILTY,
WHO YOU REPRESENTED, FLYNN
GUILTY, STONE INDICTED AND ALL
THE INTERNATIONALS INDICTED.
IF THIS IS WHERE IT ENDS, IS
THIS STILL A REALLY BIG DEAL OR
DOES THIS LOOK TO YOU THAT YOU
WOULD ARGUE, WHILE SERIOUS, IS A
LOT OF COVER-UP AND PROCESS
CRIMES AND NOT THE UNDERLYING
COLLUSION?
COLLUSION? >> IT DOESN’T HAVE A LOT TO DO
WITH RUSSIA.
WITH RUSSIA. AND IT DOESN’T SEEM TO -- NONE
OF IT SEEMS TO GO BACK TO TRUMP.
THEY DON’T SEEM TO MAKE THAT
CONNECTION BETWEEN TRUMP
HIMSELF.
HIMSELF. IT’S SERIOUS CRIMES HE HAS
COMMITTED.
COMMITTED. THE PHOTO WITH THE CROSSHAIRS
COULD BE LOOKED AT AS A THREAT
TO THE JUDGE, OR TO INCITE SOME
SORT OF VIOLENCE AGAINST HER.
IF SHE LOOKS AT IT THAT WAY,
THAT’S VERY SERIOUS, TOO.
ALL OF THAT WILL AFFECT
EVENTUALLY IF HE IS FOUND GUILTY
OR PLEADS GUILTY, THE
SENTENCING.
SENTENCING. SO, HE COULD BE LOOKING AT SOME
SERIOUS TIME.
SERIOUS TIME. AND THE FACT THAT HE DID THIS
NOW MAKES IT WORSE.
>> GOVERNOR DEAN, BIG PICTURE.
AND IF THERE IS, QUOTE, UNQUOTE,
NO CONSPIRACY, NO COLLUSION,
WHAT DO YOU TAKE FROM THIS?
IS THE DEMOCRATS’ ARGUMENT YEAH,
OKAY, THERE WASN’T AN
INTERNATIONAL WATERGATE ELECTION
CONSPIRACY JUST A TON OF
FELONIES BY ALL THE TOP PEOPLE
TRUMP PICKED?
TRUMP PICKED? >> I DON’T THINK THE STERCHNCH O
THE TRUMP FAMILY INDICTMENTS GO
AWAY.
AWAY. THERE MAY BE IMPEACHMENT
HEARINGS BUT TRUMP’S LABEL IS
NOW CORRUPTION.
NOW CORRUPTION. AND HIS BASE IS GOING TO LOVE
HIM ANYWAY AND EVERYBODY ELSE IS
GOING TO HATE HIM.
AND I DON’T SEE A BIG CHANGE IN
THE STATUS QUO.
I DO THINK A NUMBER OF PEOPLE
ARE GOING TO JAIL.
I WOULDN’T RULE OUT DONALD
JUNIOR.
JUNIOR. >> VERY INTERESTING.
>> ANN MARIE, ANDY McCABE WILL
BE ON THE BEAT TOMORROW NIGHT.
TO YOU WANT ME TO TELL HIM YOU
SAID HI?
SAID HI? >> I WISH HIM WELL.
I HOPE IT WORKS OUT WELL FOR
HIM.
HIM. >> IT WAS MORE OF A JOKE
QUESTION.
QUESTION. YOU ANSWERED IT SERIOUSLY.
YOU’RE A SERIOUS PROSECUTOR.