>>> NOW JOINED BY JOHN MEACHAM
>>> NOW JOINED BY JOHN MEACHAM AND MICHAEL BENDER.
AND MICHAEL BENDER.
"THE INSIDE STORY HOW TRUMP
LOST."
>> LET ME BRING IN JOHN MEACHAM
TO START AND MAKE SURE -- I WANT
TO MAKE SURE MICHAELS AUDIO IS
PRETTY GOOD.
I THINK WE GOT MOST OF THAT.
JOHN, WHATS THE TAKE AWAY FROM
A LOT OF THE BOMB SHELL REPORTS
WE ARE GETTING NOW?
>> WELL, I THISNK PUTIN MAY BE
INTERFERING WITH MICHAELS
SIGNAL THERE.
I THINK THE CENTRAL TAKE AWAY IS
THAT WE WERE IN INCREDIBLE
DANGER AND WE STILL ARE AS A
REPUBLIC.
THIS IS NOT A PARTISAN POINT.
THESE ARE IMPORTANT REVELATIONS THAT ARE FILLING OUT A PICTURE
THAT ARE FILLING OUT A PICTURE
OF A MOMENT IN WHICH AUTOCRACY
AND INTO THE RULE OF LAW, THE
THINGS THAT YOU CARE ABOUT, THAT
ATTACK WAS SUSTAINED AND WE MANAGED TO PULL THIS OUT AT THE
MANAGED TO PULL THIS OUT AT THE
VERY LAST MINUTE.
EVERYBODYS LUCK RUNS OUT IF WE
BELIEVE IN THE CONSTITUTION
EXPERIMENT AND DEMOCRACY.
>> MICHAEL?
>> WHEN IT COMES TO THE PEOPLE
WHO ARE CLOSEST AROUND TRUMP
THAT MARK MILLEY AND MIKE POMPEO
AND THE MIKE PENCES.
THESE TYPES OF FOLKS WERE NOT
CONCERNED ABOUT THE CHAOS STORY
THAT WE HAD BEEN TALKING ABOUT
FOR YEARS.
LIKE JOHN, WHAT CAME OUT IN MY
REPORTING FOR THE BOOK WAS THAT THEY THOUGHT TRUMP WAS A DANGER
THEY THOUGHT TRUMP WAS A DANGER
TO THE COUNTRY THAT HE BECAME
RECKLESS AND DESPERATE.
HE SAID IN A ROOM FULL OF PEOPLE
THAT HE WANTED TO SHOOT
AMERICANS PROTESTING CIVIL
RIGHTS INJUSTICES.
MIKE POMPEO LEFT OTHERS WITH THE
IMPRESSION THAT HE THOUGHT TRUMP
WANTED TO LEAN INTO A WAR OR MAY
LEAN INTO A WAR IN ORDER TO
STRENGTHEN HIS ARGUMENT TO NOT
LEAVE OFFICE.
THESE ARE THE KINDS OF DETAILS
THAT THROUGHOUT THE BOOK
ILLUSTRATES THAT POINT.
>> WHY HE WAS SO LATE TO
STEALING THE ELECTION.
HE HAD A LOT OF DESIRE TO STEAL
THE ELECTION WHICH IS
UNCONSTITUTIONAL OBVIOUSLY AND
WHETHER IF HE WAS CHARGED FOR IT
OR NOT.
BUT, HE WAS LATE TO THAT.
DO YOU KNOW FROM YOUR REPORTING
WHY IT WAS A SLOPPY EFFORT AND
WHETHER HE LITERALLY JUST DIDNT
KNOW HE WOULD BE SHORT THE VOTES
OR WHY HE DIDNT START EARLIER
OR BOTH THESE BOOKS AND OTHERS
RAISE WHY IF HE WAS GOING TO GO
THAT FAR THAT HE NEVER ACTUALLY
ACCORDING TO PUBLIC ACCOUNTS
TRYING TO CARRY OUT THE VIOLENT
COUP OUTSIDE A CITIZEN
INSURRECTION.
>> THIS PRESIDENT WE SAW FOR
THREE YEARS AND INTO THE LAST
YEAR LIVES MOMENT TO MOMENT,
HEADLINE TO HEADLINE.
I KNOW THAT THERE WAS NO
LONG-TERM COMMUNICATIONS PLANNED
IN THE WHITE HOUSE AFTER THE
FIRST FEW MONTHS OF THE WHITE
HOUSE.
AND, YOU KNOW, THERE WAS A SENSE
IN MY REPORTING IN THE BOOK HERE
THAT THOSE FIRST COUPLE OF WEEKS
AFTER THE ELECTION, TRUMP WAS
NOT FILMING AT THE MOUND AS MARK
MEADOWS LATER DESCRIBED HIM TO
MARK ESPER AND MARK MILLEY, HE
WAS NOT SHOUTING OR SCREAMING.
THAT LEFT OTHER FOLKS WITH THE
IMPRESSION THAT HE JUST NEEDED
HIS OWN, HE NEEDED TO BLOW OFF
STEAM AND EVENTUALLY FOUND HIS
OWN PATH TO ACKNOWLEDGE BIDEN AS
THE PRESIDENT AND HE JUST NEEDED
SOME SPACE.
BY GIVING HIM SPACE WAS CREATED
AN OPENING FOR PEOPLE LIKE RUDY
GIULIANI AND SIDNEY POWELL AND
SOME OF THOSE FOLKS COMING
INTELING TRUMP WHAT HE WANTED TO
HEAR.
>> YEAH, HE BLEW OFF STEAM AND
PEOPLE DIED AND PEOPLE WERE BEAT
UP AND PEOPLE GOT BADLY HURT AND
IT COULD HAVE BEEN WORSE.
WE KNOW HOW CLOSE ELECTED
OFFICIALS WERE TO WHAT COULD HAVE BEEN A MUCH, MUCH WORSE.
HAVE BEEN A MUCH, MUCH WORSE.
>> JOHN MEACHAM, I WANT TO ASK
YOU THE MOMENT TO MOMENT
SLOPPINESS.
IT HAS A LIENDNE YOU CANT GIVE
INSTRUCTION TO MAKE HOMEMADE
ILLEGAL BOMBS AND CALL IT
SPEECH.
LIKE WISE IF I HAD TO IN THEORY,
I CAN WRITE LONG-TERM PLAY BOOK
GIVEN THE CONSTITUTIONAL LEGAL
RULE OF FEDERALISM OF HOW YOU
WOULD BETTER PRESS TO OVERTHROW
AN ELECTION.
>> I AM NOT GOING TO DO THAT.
BUT, WHAT ABOUT THAT?
HOW LUCKY?
ARE WE LUCKY THAT DONALD TRUMP
AND HIMSELF DIDNT HAVE THAT
ABILITY AND APPARENTLY DIDNT
HAVE PEOPLE AROUND HIM TO DO
THAT.
IF HE STARTED EARLIER IN SOME WAYS THAT I AM NOT GOING TO GET
WAYS THAT I AM NOT GOING TO GET
INTO, IT COULD HAVE BEEN WORSE.
>> ABSOLUTELY IT COULD HAVE BEEN
WORSE.
IT IS NOT AN EXCUSE TO THOSE IN
THE ADMINISTRATION TO CHILD
PROOF THE OVAL OFFICE FOR HIS
EMOTIONAL OUTBURST.
AT A CERTAIN POINT YOU HAVE AN
OBLIGATION TO THE CONSTITUTION
AND THE COUNTRY ITSELF.
I AM NOT BEING DISTANT AND
PRETENDING I DONT KNOW WHAT IT
IS LIKE TO BE -- I UNDERSTAND
WHEN YOU ARE IN AN INSTITUTION
AND YOU HAVE THIS POWERFUL SOURCE AT THE CENTER OF IT, OF
SOURCE AT THE CENTER OF IT, OF
COURSE YOU TRIM HERE AND THERE.
WHAT WE ARE SEEING IS HOW CLOSE
WE CAME TO I BELIEVE AN END OR A
FUNDAMENTAL END TO THE CONSTITUTIONAL REPUBLIC.
CONSTITUTIONAL REPUBLIC.
I AM NOT BEING HYPERBOLIC.
THEY GOT INSIDE THE CAPITOL THIS TIME, SIX MONTHS AGO.
TIME, SIX MONTHS AGO.
YOU ASK, ARE WE LUCKY?
ABSOLUTELY.
I DONT WANT TO TEST THAT
AFFECTION AGAIN AND AGAIN.
>> ALL VERY IMPORTANT POINTS AND