>> Steve: AN ESCALATING POLITICAL CRISIS IN HONG KONG OVER THE PAST SIX MONTHS
HAS LED TO VIOLENT CLASHES BETWEEN POLICE AND DEMONSTRATORS.
NOW ELECTIONS HAVE AMPLIFIED THAT DISCONTENT.
WITH US TO ASSESS THE CITY'S POLITICAL CRISIS AND ITS CHALLENGE TO BEIJING'S RULE:
EMILY LAU.
SHE IS A FORMER DEMOCRATIC PARTY MEMBER OF THE HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL AND CHAIR OF
THE HONG KONG DEMOCRATIC PARTY'S FOREIGN AFFAIRS COMMITTEE.
WE ARE DELIGHTED TO WELCOME YOU TO TVO.
>> Emily Lau: THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
>> Steve: SO NICE TO MEET YOU.
WHAT IS YOUR RESPONSE TO THE ELECTIONS THAT JUST TRANSPIRED LAST WEEKEND THAT SAW THE
PRO-DEMOCRACY CANDIDATES DO VERY WELL.
>> IT WAS GOOD.
BETTER THAN EXPECTED.
AND I THINK THE PEOPLE HAVE SPOKEN LOUDLY AND CLEARLY, IN A VERY PEACEFUL WAY, JUST VIA THE
BALLOT BOX.
THEY SAY THEY ARE OPPOSED TO CARRIE LAM, THE CHIEF EXECUTIVE, AND OF COURSE TO BEIJING'S
INTERFERENCE.
SO WHAT WE HOPE TO SEE HAPPENING IS NOT BEIJING COMING ON US LIKE A TON OF BRICKS, BUT THAT THEY
WOULD LISTEN TO THE DEMANDS OF THE PEOPLE AND START RESPONDING SO THEN LIFE CAN RETURN TO
NORMALITY, I HOPE.
>> Steve: WELL, THAT IS THE KEY QUESTION.
YOU'VE SENT OUT A MESSAGE.
DO YOU THINK THAT MESSAGE HAS BEEN RECEIVED BY BEIJING?
>> I DON'T KNOW.
ACTUALLY, I SPEAK AS SOMEONE WHO HAS NOT BEEN ALLOWED TO TRAVEL TO MAINLAND CHINA FOR SEVERAL
DECADES.
SO I HOPE TO USE YOUR PROGRAM TO TALK TO BEIJING.
I'M SURE THEY'RE WATCHING IT.
>> Steve: WHY CAN'T YOU GO TO CHINA?
>> WELL, YOU'VE GOT TO ASK THEM.
AND SOME PEOPLE SAY, "YOUR MOUTH."
THE FIRST CHIEF EXECUTIVE OF HONG KONG, MR. C.H. TONG, SAID TO ME, "EMILY, DON'T TALK TOO
MUCH.
TAKE A STEP BACK.
NO, TAKE THREE STEPS BACKWARDS."
I SAID, C.H., I'VE BEEN ELECTED TO REPRESENT THE PEOPLE, AND YOU'RE TELLING ME NOT TO TALK
TOO MUCH.
THAT'S THE PROBLEM WITH BEIJING.
THEY DON'T WANT PEOPLE TO SAY THINGS THEY DON'T WANT TO HEAR.
AND IF I AM RESIDING IN MAINLAND CHINA, STEVE, I WILL PROBABLY GET, BY COMING ONTO YOUR SHOW,
10 YEARS OR MORE FOR SUBVERTING STATE POWER.
>> Steve: SO YOU DON'T WANT TO GO THERE RIGHT NOW, ACTUALLY.
>> NO, I DON'T.
I DON'T WANT TO BE LOCKED UP FOR 10 OR 15 YEARS.
>> Steve: EXACTLY.
>> BUT I STILL SPEAK UP, AND THERE COULD BE HORRIBLE CONSEQUENCES.
THAT'S WHY PEOPLE IN HONG KONG ARE SO FEARFUL.
>> Steve: YOU MENTIONED CARRIE LAM, THE CHIEF EXECUTIVE IN HONG KONG.
WHAT SHOULD SHE DO NOW?
>> WELL, SHE SHOULD GO.
SHE SHOULD RESIGN.
HAVING CAUSED THE BIGGEST CRISIS IN HONG KONG'S HISTORY, AND OF COURSE SHE SHOULD TELL BEIJING,
URGE BEIJING, TO LISTEN TO THE WISHES OF THE PEOPLE.
AND WE ARE NOT ASKING FOR INDEPENDENCE, STEVE.
DON'T GET ME WRONG.
BEIJING HAS BEEN OUT SMEARING US, SAYING, OH, THESE ARE SEPARATISTS.
THEY JUST WANT TO BREAK AWAY FROM THE PEOPLE'S REPUBLIC OF CHINA.
THERE MAY BE A SMALL NUMBER WHO DO.
BUT THE VAST MAJORITY OF THE HONG KONG PEOPLE JUST WANT BEIJING TO KEEP THE PROMISE.
>> Steve: THE PROMISE FROM 1997 BEING ...
>> GIVING HONG KONG A HIGH DEGREE OF AUTONOMY UNDER THEIR POLICY OF ONE COUNTRY/TWO
SYSTEMS.
MAYBE THE CANADIANS DON'T KNOW WHAT IT IS ALL ABOUT.
>> Steve: NO, I THINK WE DO, ACTUALLY, BECAUSE WE KIND OF LIVE IT TOO.
WE HAVE FRENCH AND ENGLISH THAT HAS BEEN A FEATURE OF OUR RELATIONS HERE FOR 150-PLUS
YEARS.
>> YEAH.
BUT OURS IS JUST TO LET US CONTINUE WITH OUR FREE LIFESTYLE, WHICH MANY PEOPLE IN
THE MAINLAND DO NOT HAVE.
AND TO HAVE THE RULE OF LAW AND PERSONAL SAFETY.
THESE ARE THE THINGS THAT BEIJING PROMISED.
BUT NOW IT SEEMS BEIJING IS INTERFERING IN OUR LIFESTYLE LEFT AND RIGHT AND CENTRE.
PEOPLE ARE VERY FEARFUL.
AND THEN THE EXTRADITION BILL WHICH SPARKED OFF THIS SIX MONTHS OF TURMOIL, WHICH IS NOT
ENDING, HAS MADE PEOPLE VERY SCARED.
>> Steve: TELL US WHAT'S IN THAT BILL.
>> THEY WANT TO SEND US TO MAINLAND CHINA FOR TRIAL IF THEY ARE CRIMES THAT EXIST IN BOTH
PLACES, AND PEOPLE SAY NO WAY!
OVER THERE IT'S COMPLETE LAWLESSNESS.
AND I SPEAK WITH SOME AUTHORITY, STEVE.
BECAUSE I AM ON THE BOARD OF DIRECTORS OF THE CHINA HUMAN RIGHTS LAWYERS CONCERN GROUP.
WE FORMED THE GROUP IN HONG KONG TO SUPPORT THE HUMAN RIGHTS LAWYERS IN CHINA.
THEY ARE BEING PERSECUTED VERY BADLY.
BUT THEY ARE VERY BRAVE.
THEY ARE NOT FLEEING THE COUNTRY.
THEY STAY AND FIGHT.
AND FOR CHINA TO GO FORWARD, IT NEEDS THE RULE OF LAW.
AND FOR THAT, YOU NEED TRULY INDEPENDENT LAWYERS.
THERE ARE MORE THAN 200,000 LAWYERS IN CHINA.
BUT ONLY ABOUT 300 HUMAN RIGHTS LAWYERS, WHO DON'T CARE ABOUT GETTING RICH, AND THEY ARE NOT
POLITICAL.
THEY ARE JUST DEFENDING ORDINARY PEOPLE WHO HAVE THEIR HOMES TAKEN AWAY, CHILDREN FED WITH,
YOU KNOW, POISONED MILK POWDER, AND THEY GET PERSECUTED.
AND WE SUPPORT THEM.
AND THEY SAY: YOU, HONG KONG, YOU MUST PRESERVE A FREE AND VIBRANT HONG KONG WHICH HAS THE
RULE OF LAW.
AND THAT'S POSSIBLE.
IT WOULD NOT JUST BE GOOD FOR HONG KONG BUT GOOD FOR CHINA AND GOOD FOR THE INTERNATIONAL
COMMUNITY.
DO YOU NOT WANT TO SEE A CIVILIZED MEMBER OF THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY?
>> Steve: I DO INDEED.
>> AND WE HAVE TO HELP TO BRING THAT ABOUT.
>> Steve: DID THEY NOT PULL THE EXTRADITION BILL THAT YOU REFERRED TO, THOUGH?
>> OF COURSE.
>> Steve: THEN WHY ARE THE PROTESTS PERSISTING IF THE BILL HAS BEEN PULLED?
>> BUT THAT WAS AFTER A FEW MONTHS OF PROTESTS AND CLASHES WITH THE POLICE, AND YOU MUST
HAVE SEEN THE POLICE BRUTALITY ON YOUR SCREEN.
>> Steve: OF COURSE.
>> AND SO THAT THING, BECAUSE OF THE BRUTALITY, SO MANY PEOPLE HAVE BEEN ARRESTED AND INJURED.
SO IT'S MORPHED INTO THIS BIG DEMAND FOR REFORM OF THE POLICE FORCE FOR INVESTIGATION OF HOW
COME THEY BEHAVE IN SUCH A BARBARIC WAY.
>> Steve: OKAY, BUT I SEE TWO DIFFERENT THINGS ON MY TELEVISION SET WHEN I WATCH THE
INTERNATIONAL NEWS, AND YOU TELL ME ABOUT THIS.
OBVIOUSLY THERE IS A HUGE CHUNK OF PROTESTERS WHO WANT TO PEACEFULLY PROTEST AND MAKE
THEIR VOICES HEARD.
I MEAN, I THINK YOU'D HAVE TO ACKNOWLEDGE THIS.
THERE'S A SMALLER GROUP THAT WANT TO DAMAGE PROPERTY AND WANT TO BE MORE VIOLENT, AND WHAT DID
YOU DO ABOUT THEM?
>> WELL, I THINK INITIALLY THEY WERE NOT VIOLENT.
BUT THEN WHEN THE POLICE STARTED BEATING UP PEOPLE AND SO ON, SO THEY GOT VERY ANGRY, AND THEY
HAVE TO EXPRESS THEIR ANGER.
I SPEAK AS SOMEONE WHO HAS NEVER ENGAGED IN VIOLENCE, BUT I CAN UNDERSTAND.
AND THEY ARE PUTTING THEIR OWN LIFE AT STAKE.
AND THE POLICE RESPONDED BY ESCALATING THE LEVEL OF VIOLENCE.
SO CAN YOU BELIEVE THAT THE POLICE, WHICH IS FULLY ARMED, AND THESE PEOPLE JUST HAVE A
LITTLE FACE MASK AND SO ON, AGAINST THE POLICE?
I MEAN, IT IS TERRIBLE.
>> Steve: NO, I'M NOT SAYING IT'S A FAIR FIGHT.
BUT WHEN YOU STORM THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY AND YOU DEFILE THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY,
IF YOU'RE GOING FOR THE HEARTS AND MINDS OF THE PUBLIC, THERE WERE MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC WHO
DID NOT LIKE TO SEE THAT, RIGHT?
>> TRUE.
AND YOU KNOW WHAT?
ONE OF THE GRAVITY THEY SCRAWLED ON THE WALL AFTER THEY STORMED IN, THEY SAID, IT IS YOU WHO
TAUGHT US PEACEFUL DEMONSTRATION IS USELESS.
TERRIBLE, ISN'T IT?
TERRIBLE.
>> Steve: LET ME ASK YOU ABOUT SOME OF THE RESPONSES FROM OTHER COUNTRIES IN THE WORLD AND WE'LL
START WITH THE UNITED STATES, BECAUSE THE AMERICAN CONGRESS HAS PASSED THE HONG KONG HUMAN
RIGHTS AND DEMOCRACY ACT.
AND IN YOUR VIEW, HOW DOES THAT CHANGE THE STATE OF PLAY?
>> WELL, I HOPE IT WILL SEND A VERY UNAMBIGUOUS SIGNAL TO BEIJING AND TO THE PEOPLE, THE
OFFICIALS IN HONG KONG, AND THE POLICE, THAT, YOU KNOW, IF THEY REALLY CONTINUE TO UNDERMINE
HUMAN RIGHTS IN HONG KONG AND THE RULE OF LAW AND ALL THAT, THEY COULD BE TARGETED.
THEY COULD BE PUNISHED.
AND IF THE AMERICAN PRESIDENT, THE ADMINISTRATION -- >> Steve: HE SIGNED IT.
THE PRESIDENT SIGNED THE BILL.
>> BUT HE HAS TO MOVE TO SAY, "AH, JOE BLOW, YOU ARE TARGETED.
YOU CANNOT ENTER THE U.S. OR YOUR ASSETS WILL BE FROZEN."
AND I THINK IT WOULD SEND CHILLS DOWN THE SPINE OF MANY PEOPLE.
I'M SURE YOU KNOW MANY OF THEM WITHIN HONG KONG OR IN MAINLAND CHINA, THEY HAVE PEOPLE WHO ARE
LIVING IN THE U.S., PROPERTIES IN THE U.S., AND IF SUDDENLY THEY FIND OUT THEY COULD BE
TARGETED, THEY COULD BE BANNED OR THEIR PROPERTIES AND ASSETS WOULD BE FROZEN, WOW, I THINK
THAT'S A POWERFUL THING.
>> Steve: THAT WOULD GET THEIR ATTENTION.
IT'S ONE THING TO PASS THE LAW, BUT THEY NOW HAVE TO ENFORCE IT, IS WHAT YOU'RE SAYING.
>> THAT'S RIGHT.
AND I SAW ON THE NEWS THIS MORNING, SAME PRESIDENT TRUMP WHO WANTS TO HAVE A TRADE DEAL
WITH CHINA, MAY PROBABLY TELL PRESIDENT XI JINPING, DON'T WORRY, YOU KNOW, I WILL NOT USE
IT.
UNLESS, OF COURSE, IF YOU'RE REALLY TOO BRUTAL.
BUT OTHERWISE, DON'T WORRY, IT WILL BE JUST LIKE WINDOW DRESSING THERE.
>> Steve: WAIT A SECOND.
ARE YOU SAYING PRESIDENT TRUMP MIGHT ACTUALLY SAY SOMETHING THAT HE DOESN'T MEAN?
>> HE DOES IT EVERY DAY, MY DEAR FRIEND.
WERE YOU BORN YESTERDAY?
>> Steve: I AM BEING FACETIOUS, MY DEAR.
>> I DON'T THINK YOU SHOULD DO THAT ON YOUR PROGRAM.
>> Steve: NEXT QUESTION: CHINA HATES IT WHEN OTHER COUNTRIES INTERFERE IN THEIR INTERNAL
DEALINGS.
DO YOU THINK THE AMERICANS ARE POSSIBLY, UNWISELY, IF THEY WANT GOOD RELATIONS WITH CHINA,
INTERFERING IN CHINA'S INTERNAL DEALINGS?
>> WELL, I THINK, ACTUALLY, MAYBE YOU SAY IT'S INTERFERING, BUT IT IS AN ACT OF CONGRESS, AN
ACT OF THE PRESIDENT.
THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, WITHIN HIS SOVEREIGN RIGHT.
AND THEY ALSO INTERFERE IN YOUR COUNTRY.
JUST A FEW DAYS AGO, THE CHINESE AMBASSADOR HERE TOLD YOUR GOVERNMENT OFF.
"NOW, DON'T FOLLOW THE U.S.
OTHERWISE, THERE COULD BE DIRE CONSEQUENCES."
SEE?
THEY KEEP INTERFERING IN OTHER PEOPLE'S BUSINESS, AND THEN THEY TELL PEOPLE NOT TO INTERFERE IN
THEIR BUSINESS.
BUT, TO ME, MY DEAR FRIEND, HUMAN RIGHTS, DEMOCRACY, AND THE RULE OF LAW, UNIVERSAL VALUES,
THEY TRANSCEND NATIONAL BOUNDARIES.
PEOPLE ALL OVER THE WORLD HAVE A DUTY TO SPEAK OUT WHEN THEY SEE HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS TAKING
PLACE ELSEWHERE.
SO I WOULD NOT REGARD THAT AS INTERFERENCE.
I HAVE TRAVELLED TO THE UNITED NATIONS TO OBSERVE HEARINGS ON HONG KONG, AND I'VE TOLD
DIFFERENT COMMITTEE MEMBERS, AND THEY ALL AGREE, IT'S NOT INTERFERENCE.
YOU ALL HAVE A DUTY TO SPEAK OUT.
AND THEN I DON'T KNOW WHY THEY TELL YOUR GOVERNMENT, THE CHINESE AMBASSADOR TOLD YOUR
GOVERNMENT, "NOW, DON'T FOLLOW THE AMERICANS.
DON'T ACT TO PUNISH CHINESE OFFICIALS."
DO YOU REGARD THAT AS INTERFERENCE IN CANADIAN AFFAIRS?
>> Steve: WELL, WE KNOW THAT FOR THE FIRST FOUR YEARS OF JUSTIN TRUDEAU'S PRIME
MINISTERSHIP, THINGS GOT OFF THE RAILS WITH CHINA, A RELATIONSHIP THAT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE PRETTY
GOOD FROM THE BEGINNING GOT PRETTY TERRIBLE PRETTY QUICKLY FOR A NUMBER OF REASONS.
SO I THINK CANADA IS -- CANADA IS CERTAINLY LISTENING TO CHINA IN TERMS OF HOW TO PUT THE
RELATIONSHIP BACK INTO THE WAY IT COULD PROPERLY BE.
YOU WERE AT THE HALIFAX SECURITY FORUM, RIGHT?
>> YEAH.
>> Steve: WHAT DID YOU SUGGEST -- I MEAN, I PRESUME YOU LEFT OUR GOVERNMENT WITH A
MESSAGE AS TO HOW YOU THINK WE SHOULD PROCEED?
>> YOUR DEFENCE MINISTER WAS THERE AND I SAY, YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE TO STAND UP FOR WHAT YOU
BELIEVE IN.
WELL, WE GOT THE JOHN McCAIN PRIZE, AND THIS IS WHAT JOHN McCAIN IS ALL ABOUT: SPEAKING
OUT.
HAVE THE COURAGE.
AND I TOLD YOUR DEFENCE MINISTER, I SAID, YOU SHOULD DO THAT.
AND IF YOU SPEAK OUT FOR HONG KONG, IT'S NOT JUST FOR HONG KONG, MY DEAR FRIEND, ALTHOUGH
YOU'VE NOT BEEN THERE.
YOU KNOW, THERE ARE 300,000 CANADIANS, CITIZENS, LIVING AND WORKING IN HONG KONG.
AND OVER A THOUSAND CANADIAN COMPANIES.
SO YOU ARE HELPING YOUR OWN PEOPLE AS WELL AS HELPING THE 7 MILLION.
SO OF COURSE YOU SHOULD DO THAT.
AND I HOPE YOUR PRIME MINISTER, ALTHOUGH I'VE BEEN HERE FOR JUST A FEW DAYS IN HALIFAX AND NOW IN
TORONTO, THE CANADIANS I'VE MET, THEY ALL SAY, "GEE, OUR PRIME MINISTER IS SO SPINELESS AND
SO -- SO TIMID."
BUT OF COURSE THE BUSINESS PEOPLE ARE TELLING HIM, "PRIME MINISTER, WE WANT TO SELL PORK,
SELL LOBSTERS, SELL GAS TO CHINA --" NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT.
>> Steve: EMILY THERE ARE TWO CANADIANS IN JAIL AS WELL IN BEIJING.
>> HE WANTS TO GET THEM OUT.
>> Steve: OF COURSE HE DOES.
>> BUT YOU KNOW THE CHINESE.
I'M SURE YOU KNOW THE CHINESE GOVERNMENT -- >> Steve: WELL, THEY DON'T
RESPECT WEAKNESS, DO THEY?
>> EXACTLY.
YOU HAVE TO SPEAK WITH TOUGHNESS AND FOR WHAT YOU BELIEVE IN.
AND AS DONALD TRUMP WOULD SAY, YOU DO A DEAL.
YOU DON'T JUST SAY, OKAY, WE SELL YOU PORK, YOU GIVE US MONEY.
FORGET ABOUT THE TWO MICHAELS.
FORGET ABOUT CANADIAN DIGNITY AND ALL THESE THINGS THAT WE BELIEVE IN.
NO.
YOU ARE IN POWER.
YOU HAVE TO LEARN TO STRIKE A BALANCE.
YOU JUST CANNOT CAVE IN TO ALL THE BUSINESS LOBBY'S DEMANDS.
AND TO HELL WITH WHAT THE CANADIAN PEOPLE WANT.
AND MANY CANADIANS, I'M SURE YOU KNOW BETTER THAN I DO, THEY WANT THESE UNIVERSAL VALUES.
NOT JUST HERE, BUT ALSO FOR YOUR CITIZENS IN HONG KONG AND ELSEWHERE.
SO THEY WANT THE GOVERNMENT TO STAND UP AND SPEAK FOR THEM.
AND WHAT DO YOU THINK CHINA WILL DO?
WHAT DO YOU THINK?
WHY IS THE GOVERNMENT HERE SO SCARED?
YOU TELL ME.
>> Steve: WELL, THEY'RE SCARED THAT SOMETHING BAD WILL HAPPEN TO THE TWO MICHAELS WHO ARE IN
PRISON IN BEIJING AND THEY ARE TERRIFIED THAT CHINA WILL CONTINUE TO FLEX THEIR
ECONOMIC -- THEY'RE A BILLION PEOPLE, WORTH 35 MILLION, 36 MILLION --
>> 37.
>> Steve: 37.
THEY'RE TERRIFIED CHINA MIGHT SAY WE'LL NEVER BUY YOUR GOODS EVER AGAIN.
EVERY PRIME MINISTER NEEDS TO KEEP AN EYE ON THE BOTTOM LINE.
IT'S A FACT.
>> OF COURSE.
YOU HAVE TO BALANCE VARIOUS THINGS.
YOU KNOW WHAT HAPPENED IN SWEDEN LAST WEEK?
BOOK SELLERS, MANY WERE ABDUCTED TO CHINA.
ONE IS A SWEDISH CITIZEN.
HE'S STILL LOCKED UP IN CHINA.
AND THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY OFFERED AN AWARD TO HIM.
OF COURSE, HE CAN'T GO AND SELECT IT.
THE CEREMONY WAS IN STOCKHOLM.
AND THE CHINESE TOLD THE SWEDISH GOVERNMENT, "DON'T GO AND ATTEND THE CEREMONY."
WHAT HAPPENED?
THE CULTURE MINISTER ATTENDED, THIS LADY MADE A LONG SPEECH, AND CHINA SAID, "OKAY, YOU WILL
BE BANNED.
YOU AND OFFICIALS FROM THE MINISTRY CANNOT GO TO CHINA."
AND THE PRIME MINISTER OF SWEDEN SAID: "WE HAVE FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION IN THIS COUNTRY.
SWEDEN MAY BE SMALLER THAN CANADA."
>> Steve: MUCH, YES.
>> SO I DON'T WANT YOU AND YOUR COUNTRY TO SEND OUT THE MESSAGE TO BEIJING THAT IF WE ARE SMALL,
WE ARE 30-ODD MILLION, WE ARE AT YOUR MERCY.
WOW, GEE.
WHAT SORT OF A MESSAGE IS THAT, MY DEAR FRIEND?
YOU DON'T WANT TO SEND THAT MESSAGE.
>> Steve: SO DEVELOP A SPINE, IS YOUR MESSAGE.
>> I THINK SO.
AND HAVE DIGNITY.
AND DEFEND THE INTERESTS OF THE CANADIANS.
NO, I'M NOT SAYING YOU SHOULDN'T.
>> Steve: YOU PICKED THAT PLATE UP QUICKLY AND I DID WANT TO BRING A LITTLE MORE ATTENTION
TO IT BECAUSE YOU DID WIN THE JOHN McCAIN PRIZE FOR LEADERSHIP IN PUBLIC SERVICE.
>> NO, IT'S FOR THE HONG KONG PEOPLE, MY DEAR FRIEND.
>> Steve: YOU'RE HOLDING ON THE IT.
YOU HAVE IT RIGHT NOW.
FOR THOSE WHO DON'T KNOW, OBVIOUSLY IT WAS NAMED AFTER THE FORMER ARIZONA SENATOR WHO WAS A
LEADING LIGHT FOR MANY, MANY DECADES IN AMERICAN POLITICAL LIFE, AND I'M INTERESTED IN HOW
SIGNIFICANT YOU THINK THAT IS TO YOUR CAUSE.
>> WELL, I THINK IT'S VERY SIGNIFICANT BECAUSE IT IS REALLY, ESPECIALLY AT THIS VERY
CRITICAL JUNCTURE, WHEN PEOPLE ARE FIGHTING ON THE STREET, ARE BEING TEAR GASSED EVERY DAY, AND
SUDDENLY THIS THING CROPPED UP AND THEY OFFERED IT TO THE HONG KONG PEOPLE.
AND MRS. CINDY McCAIN ACTUALLY PRESENTED IT TO US, ME AND MR. CHAN, AND SAID IT'S NOT JUST
FOR THE HONG KONG PEOPLE.
IT'S FOR PEOPLE ALL OVER THE WORLD WHO ARE ENGAGED IN STRUGGLE FOR DEMOCRACY AND HUMAN
RIGHTS.
AND I THINK THAT'S RIGHT.
AND IT'S GOOD FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE BEING TEAR GASSED EVERY DAY IN THE STREETS, BEATEN UP BY THE
POLICE, TO KNOW THAT THEY HAVE FRIENDS IN OTHER PLACES WHO SUPPORT US, FRIENDS WHO DON'T
JUST CARE ABOUT MAKING MONEY, WHO DON'T JUST CARE ABOUT PLEASING BEIJING SO THAT THEY
CAN HAVE A GOOD LIFE.
SO I THINK IT'S VERY GOOD.
AND WE'RE GOING TO TAKE IT BACK TO HONG KONG.
WE DON'T KNOW WHERE TO PUT IT BECAUSE IT'S FOR THE HONG KONG PEOPLE, SO WE CAN'T JUST PUT IT
IN OUR OFFICE.
>> Steve: I DO WANT TO ASK YOU IN OUR REMAINING MOMENTS HERE, YES, THE DEMONSTRATIONS HAVE
GOTTEN VIOLENT.
THE POLICE REACTION TO THE DEMONSTRATIONS HAS BEEN VERY UPSETTING.
BUT YOU REMEMBER WHAT HAPPENED 30 YEARS AGO IN TIANANMEN SQUARE, AND WHEN THE CHINESE
GOVERNMENT WANTS TO REACT WITH BRUTAL FORCE, THEY HAVE, THEY CAN, AND THEY WILL, AND I WONDER
HOW WORRIED YOU ARE ABOUT THE PROTESTS TURNING GENUINELY FATAL?
>> WELL, OF COURSE.
WITH THE CHINESE GOVERNMENT, NO ONE CAN RULE ANYTHING OUT.
>> Steve: RIGHT.
>> BECAUSE IF YOU DID, YOU WOULD SAY, EMILY, THERE'S SOMETHING WRONG WITH YOUR BRAIN.
SO I WOULD NOT.
BUT WE HAVE TO KEEP TELLING THEM NOT TO DO IT, AND THE CANADIAN GOVERNMENT, THE INTERNATIONAL
COMMUNITY, AND DONALD TRUMP SHOULD KEEP TELLING THEM, "HEY, DON'T DO IT."
WE DON'T WANT A TIANANMEN IN HONG KONG.
WE DON'T WANT TO SEE RIVERS OF BLOOD FLOWING IN HONG KONG.
SO WE HAVE TO KEEP TELLING THEM.
AND THERE I THINK, ALTHOUGH THEY'RE GETTING RICHER AND RICHER, I THINK THEY STILL NEED
HONG KONG.
THERE MAY COME A DAY WHERE THEY DON'T.
SO WE HAVE TO KEEP REMINDING THEM.
AND OF COURSE I WANT EVERYBODY TO DIAL DOWN, DEESCALATE.
BUT THE GOVERNMENT HAS TO RESPOND TO THE VERY LEGITIMATE DEMANDS OF THE PEOPLE.
OTHERWISE, LIKE A BAD PENNY, THEY'LL KEEP TURNING UP AND THEN MAYBE I'LL COME BACK TO YOUR
SHOW SIX MONTHS LATER, "EMILY, THIS IS ONE YEAR LATER ALREADY.
WHAT ARE YOU DOING?"
THE PEOPLE WILL NOT STOP.
WHY?
BECAUSE THEY ARE FIGHTING FOR THEIR FUTURE, MY DEAR FRIEND.
FIGHTING FOR HUMAN RIGHTS, RULE OF LAW, AND DEMOCRACY.
>> Steve: WHICH WE HAVE HERE.
>> AND I HOPE YOU WILL ALWAYS HAVE IT BECAUSE THE LESSON FROM HONG KONG IS THAT SOMETHING YOU
THOUGHT, SO PEACEFUL, SO SAFE, DEMOCRACY, THE RULE OF LAW, AND WITHIN A FEW MONTHS, IT CAN
COMPLETE JUST BE DISMANTLED BEFORE YOUR VERY EYES.
SO IT'S A LESSON FOR PEOPLE ALL OVER THE WORLD, INCLUDING OUR FRIENDS IN CANADA.
>> Steve: ABSOLUTELY.
EMILY LAU, WE'RE GRATEFUL YOU SPARED SOME TIME FOR US ON YOUR VISIT TO CANADA.
STAY SAFE WHEN YOU GO HOME.
WE'LL BE DELIGHTED TO WELCOME YOU BACK HERE AGAIN WHEN YOU RETURN TO CANADA.
>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
>> STEVE: THANK YOU, STEVE.
>> THANK YOU, STEVE.