scholars to raise the with response to command from uh... you know dea
the other south american countries how do they feel about him it is as easy as
support from the surrounding areas
up i think i think yes i think uh... ecuador carefully
forms part of this elective network
uh... that includes um... bolivia
and um... that as well uh... uh... certainly cuba
and brazil to a certain extent argentina that you will find our relations that
are not all of them describe the hughes populous
uh... approach to politics
uh... but i think
i think also
uh...
popular term other is uh...
is that as a kind of a mixed bag in south america because from other
countries in the region like brazil or a little more cautious
and so uh... they they might be olympic
they might tend to be a little more alarmed
by uh... these fiery politicians like child over korea that really
store up the masses
and i think uh... so many other countries tend to be a little more
cautious so
but i think yet generally speaking um... perhaps uh...
they tend to support ecuador but
i don't don't think that
the that he would not necessarily host of edward snowden or killing the phones
and because
precisely for these reasons that i'm saying that tend to be a bit more
cautious
i wrote an article
i think about a year or so ago
about uh... some reports just suggesting that
opposite old might harbor chewing charge
and that was actually from talk about that of of president lula
appraise wiki weeks m
uh... fondest note that the u_s_ briefly
but i think
unlike ecuador for these countries would be a lot a lot more unlikely reticent to
offend the united states
and i think in and ive also written a lot about this in terms of the wiki
leaks cables
you know the public rhetoric is one thing and
you if you're the south american countries railing against the u_s_
because uh... in uh...
expressing anti imperialist sentiment
but in if you look at the wiki weeks cables
behind
closed-door a lot of these countries they talk to the americans in um... a
lot more
uh... cautious terms
and also uh...
uh... tend to amigo she eighteen
uh... or two
betray the confidence of other leftist nations and so what the united states is
able to exploit these divisions in south america
uh... because publicly
there get u_s_ look behind closed doors they
uh... say disrespectful things about each other
uh... there are trying to negotiate with the u_s_ also behind closed doors
and so uh... i think
there's a lot more division among still left in south america the most commonly
reported
lancelot yet so i guess yeah
support these things in a far not facing the consequences of harboring someone
like angelina signs or edwards notin um... but when it comes to doing a size
they were so in one of the things that the press constantly the press here and
that kathy talks about when these people apply for asylum in ecuador is ecuador
is not history of freedom of press um... you discuss that your article can you go
over the more into that
sure well i think are certain level the fact that edwards rodent might wind up
in ecuador belittle ironic took the
jillian at times uh...
uh...
situation with ecuador is also ironic
i mean both of these people are whistle blows or trying to expose
government
uh... secret and uh... give rise to more freedom of the press
budget deploy reineck that snowden would wind up asking for diplomatic of taiwan
from ecuador because
whatever his public policies whatever hit what you know
whatever his rhetoric and his policies against the u_s_
i quit buying of korea leaves something to be divided
and so i'd certainly
applauded career for a challenging u_s_ in gilbert diplomatic economic sphere
or what have you
but that doesn't change the factor that might
i think in many respects
um... career should give the international left
plots
you know
ecuador just past this communication paw
uh... for example
which has a very slippery slope potentially leading to censorship
uh... you know under the law of pereira
can appoint his own representative to provide the media anto anything anyone
who is potentially
uh... we're seeing a public figure or publishing something
that that uh... defamation of a public figure
then the government imposed stiff penalties against
of journalists
so that the ritual in the fact and it's also very subjective how do you define
defamation tax relief subject or contribute so
uh... the um... committee the the indicates a project journalists and
other organizations
uh... and ecuador newspapers or a concerned about this
now i don't mean to defend the right wing
uh... media in ecuador then as well as a lot of these countries a lot of times
they're scurrilous too and shameless
but that doesn't change the fact that careers current poll fast ones used to
his own power play
and i think of the the communication for removal are concerned
alone in that sense uh... snowden
uh... plea to get the political rival
in ecuador is
it will be ironic and then there is there some other irony is that i get
through in the article
actually have some of those with your germany's period from other political
concerns about korea
yell at saint nicholas owen a follow up on some of those other concerns that you
raised
in the article and i think it's the
it can next to with
the position that's noted has been put in um... and the kind of broader
questions are
uh... story like this armed
the other things that you mention the article specifically with parade
are the fact that he
also domestically has some very questionable uh... yurman rights
tendencies with uh... the indigenous population backward and you also noted
that i he's pushed for
better relationships with countries like belarus or iran which also have you know
really really poor human rights records and then when you look at bat
where snowed in has been a meaner is obviously a lot of irony in
you know leaking
and and whistle blowing united states and i'm going
c hong kong
russia
by now ecuador ecuador probably has the best record of those three are but
certainly you know now it has its own question marks around it russia as a
terrible record in regards to these things and china of course are also
uh... is a difficult situation so do you think that there's a way
what's the outlook though practically speaking for someone like edward snowed
who's done what he's done
not get kind of bond
broader question since you politics and just kind of
you know crude national interest essentially
that sort of
takeaway for maybe some
issues that he's trying to highlight of his whistle blowing
well i picked up a very good question
but i don't know realistically what the solution might be i think
pet you you would hope that to you would pick up more idealistic
uh... destination
but i think what this
situation highlight for me at that no country it is
has is uh...
if and problem
free
and i think
their uh...
realistically uh... ecuador is probably better then hong kong for russia but i
think coriolis something to be desired in addition to this
to this uh... controversial communication flaw
is also
been no friend to social movements in ecuador
uh... who were uh...
fighting for their home right over natural resources and for example
if any in the police to repress indigenous peoples
uh... we're concerned about mining and uh... oil exploration on the way and and
they want to preserve the water resources than men
in your career than in the police were called in infantile listen to people got
killed in many wounded in
uh... the ecuador amoco and i picked up on this actually ed williams wake two
thousand seven hundred and keep so
dental research firm for a book and i went to the indigenous federation akito
and i just expected them to be very very pro career
but this is a recent just after his first election and they were very very
skeptical
i think that
america pride in given turf
coming time for indigent people been betrayed by
offensively leftist politicians in ecuador and they just turn around and
basically betray them and so
and uh... i think if anything simply went to keep so
there's been of even more friction between crayon from popular forces
and then there is the other that the further irony as you noted that
uh... at equi-wright tons of note that the u_s_ i'd agree with a lot of um...
a lot of the policies counting u_s_ but
i am also critical of families south american countries but just go
so far
uh...
in in the uh... that they want to challenge the new after they got so far
in the direction of embracing
really
backwards and reactionary country pan
that the threat of a very disturbing case of
ecuador others establishing uh... a you know linked with belarus switches
uh...
you talk about ideological throwback uh... you still have the k_g_b_ in
acapella road through the burial press who plays
and their workers uh...
uh... i think korea was of potentially explosive hypocritical to flat here
because
you know just at the time that he was gonna expand diplomatic protection
through its arms
uh... there was another high-profile case
in ecuador of
a uh... disappeared from belarus through with the former army captain
compiler of uh... who exposed high-level corruption and then actually he was
doing to reflect on the internet and then he he discovered that at all
ecuador actually has very lenient laws and maybe i should
pursue diplomatic development ecuador
so he went to ecuador and you know to his credit initial use is back in two
thousand ten
acorrea gave him to pull out of iowa
but then i'm going back to this these this questionable foreign policy
uh... korea it you know in an effort to counteract the u_s_
i felt was alliance with alexander lugar cinco of ballerina
them
in two thousand twelve
lucas inko touched down in kyoto
and um... corey i would wish i could find all of these bilateral deals
uh... most disturbingly on our military of technology
events shortly after lucas inko laughed
uh... the
autograph please raided this dissident house
uh... alexander bronco that the dissident who had previously dot refuge
in ecuador
and fluency outwards promptly faulted
and he probably would have languished there
um had time magazine not all published uh...
a home are really withering
uh... article condemning korea as a hypocrite for giving diplomatic in
violent response to his com
anti-u_s_ but then
not amend and then cup clamping down on
uh... some discipline in the upper of cozying up two dollars
works
disillusionment certainly is not exactly start after all the
uh...
your career related and um... so the the um... the belarus dissident was released
from jail
but it doesn't get reveals i think of the class
sort of foreign policy uh... which is a little bit
cynical
so that he
it looked like a rare instance
thumbing his nose to use but i'm trying to get a high-profile cases
but he's not politically consistent he's not politically consistent on all cases
of diplomatic unrivaled and i think that you know another very clear example of
that
and i'm less clear on some of korea's positioning but in terms of the kind of
his political kinship with shabazz and perhaps uh... ortega
nicaragua
the reactions of uh... shot as a norte go to the
the arab spring and operating against you know really brutal on middle east
autocracy
was also
the incredibly cynical
uh... and just
really really politically crude i have one final question for you which is a
little bit of an addendum but i think it was highlighted when you were talking
about of ecuador in indigenous population
and i'm wondering
what uh...
there's obviously you know we've we've talked about things that are left
matic with the kind of new latin american left and then some great things
that they have been associated with them as well but what does the environmental
record
of army mid-week and leave it specifically to karegi wordy kind of
alluded to some of the but in general do these governments have uh...
a better approach approach to the environment or global warming or deanna
zon
article been uh...
out pretty mixed bag and i think that you've exposed a potential achilles heel
have a lot of these leftist government and i think
uh...
i think that um... a lot of the social forces be that the uh... indigenous
peoples or other paper paddled
korea
uh... lula uh... and childers power initially
um...
because there was this um...
uh... reaction against the u_s_
economic policies
uh... man military and diplomatic influence
or otherwise
and
so
i think of for awhile uh... there was uh... i think an alliance between the
personal movements and a lot of these
leftist leaders however
i think over time i think the gap between the promise of these leaders and
the aspirations of the people's widening as as we
see right now in brazil with the recent protest
uh... but also as you mentioned on the environmental questions and i think
ecuador um...
uh... house unlike
think uh...
out some problems with on the environment to the place
and and and his
if trapped in biz
uh... extractive economy
than other were tipped extracting it's uh... commodities
to export to other countries throughout the employee or other natural resources
and so i can korea not been able to extricate himself from the extractors
happen that
really exposed
i think uh... a pig gulf between the president and his former supporters
because
g uh... he had had some innovative environmental proposals on the amazon
uh... but nevertheless he hasn't been able to
to get out of this extractor trap and as a result uh... there've been a number of
complications in the eye was on over natural resources
and i think over time the south american left is gonna have to pay a lot more
attention to the environment
if it
but wants to of hurt a lot of these conflicts that we've in recent years
uh... fascinating uh...
nicolas cost love
thank you so much for your time and i would do you know recommend everybody
uh... if you're interested
in in any of these issues related to latin america social movements the
environment uh...
you should definitely read nicholson's work for sure
uh... thanks for summer
st