LAUREN: BIG TECH CONTINUES TO BE
IN THE SPOTLIGHT.
SOCIAL MEDIA COMPANIES,
FACEBOOK, YOUTUBE AND TWITTER,
ARE IN ALL-OUT SCRAMBLE TO
REMOVE COPIES OF THE VIOLENT
ATTACK THAT WAS LIVESTREAMED ON
TWO MOSQUES IN NEW ZEALAND THAT
LEFT 50 PEOPLE DEAD.
FACEBOOK NOW SAYS IT'S REMOVED
1.5 MILLION COPIES OF THE TERROR
ATTACK VIDEO BUT THE PROBLEM IS,
DIFFERENT VERSIONS OF THAT VIDEO
CONTINUE TO POP UP ON VARIOUS
SOCIAL PLATFORMS HOURS AND DAYS
AFTER THE ATTACK.
SO THE QUESTION THAT WE ASK, IS
BIG TECH DOING ENOUGH TO COMBAT
VIOLENCE AND KEEP THESE HARMFUL
VIDEOS OFF THEIR SITES?
OUR NEXT GUEST IS THE FOUND E
OUR NEXT GUEST IS THE FOUNDER
AND CTO OF SIDE RESPONSE, HE
PROVIDES TECHNOLOGY-BASED
SUPPORT FOR COMPANIES LIKE
AMAZON.
WE ARE ALSO JOINED BY RUSSELL
HAWLEY WHO COVERS THE TECHNOLOGY
INDUSTRY PRETTY EXTENSIVELY.
GENTLEMEN, THANK YOU FOR COMING
ON.
IT'S A PRETTY BIG TOPIC, AN
IMPORTANT TOPIC.
RUSSELL, I WANT TO BEGIN WITH
YOU.
WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THE
ALTERING OF THIS VIDEO SO IT
COULD PERPETUATE IN CYBERSPACE.
IS THERE ANYTHING THAT CAN BE
DONE TO REMOVE IT?
BECAUSE JUST LIKE THE WHOLE
ARGUMENT WITH SNAPCHAT, IT NEVER
REALLY DISAPPEARS.
>> YEAH.
A BIG PART OF WHAT WE ARE
LOOKING AT HERE IS 1.2 MILLION
OF THE VIDEOS UPLOADED OF THE
1.5 ON FACEBOOK WERE REMOVED
BEFORE THEY WERE EVEN PUBLISHED.
PART OF THAT USES A TECHNOLOGY
THAT'S SIMILAR TO SONG I.D. IN
THAT IT KIND OF IDENTIFIES A
SECTION OF AUDIO AND IF THE
SECTION LINES UP, FACEBOOK KNOWS
TO IMMEDIATELY CUT IT.
THE ARGUMENT COULD BE MADE THAT
MORE SEGMENTS OF AUDIO COULD BE
USED TO MATCH THINGS UP BECAUSE
AT SOME POINT, THAT VIDEO IS
GOING TO SYNC UP AT SOME POINT
IF IT'S EVEN PART OF THE SAME
VIDEO FROM THE CLIP.
A LOT OF THIS COMES FROM
INTENTIONALLY WARPING THE VIDEO
IN SOME WAY SO THAT IT CAN BE
UPLOADED AND BYPASSING THAT.
YOU KIND OF HAVE TO FIGURE THAT
THERE'S ALWAYS GOING TO BE SOME
KIND OF ENGINEERING WHEN AS SOON
AS A GROUP OF PEOPLE FIGURE OUT
A VIDEO IS BEING PULLED, THEY
ARE TRYING TO FIND WAYS AROUND
IT, IT'S GOING TO BE THE NEXT
LOGICAL STEP.
LAUREN: THIS ALL SOUNDS SO
COMPLICATED AND TECH-SAVVY.
JOE, YOU WORK DIRECTLY WITH
THESE BIG TECH COMPANIES.
THEY HAVE ARTIFICIAL
INTELLIGENCE.
THEY HAVE HUMAN MODERATORS.
THEY ARE SPENDING MILLIONS AND
MILLIONS OF DOLLARS TO BETTER
COMBAT THIS, YET IT WAS THE
POLICE IN NEW ZEALAND THAT FIRST
ALERTED THEM THAT THIS VIDEO
EVEN EXISTED, THAT THIS VIDEO
WAS LIVESTREAMED.
>> I THINK FACEBOOK'S PRIORITY
IN THE PAST HAS BEEN DIFFERENT
THAN WHAT IT IS TODAY.
I THINK NOW THEY ARE CONTROLLING
THEIR CONTENT AND CONSUMPTION OF
CONTENT, WHERE PREVIOUSLY THEY
ONLY CARED ABOUT THE CONSUMPTION
OF ANY CONTENT IN ORDER TO GET
MORE VISIBILITY AND MORE
MARKETING ADVERTISING DOLLARS.
WE ALL REMEMBER WHEN FACEBOOK
WASN'T PROFITABLE AND HAD NO WAY
TO MONETIZE ITS MODEL.
WHAT WE ARE SEEING NOW IS THAT
FACEBOOK IS PLAYING A CATCH-UP
WHERE THEY HAVE SO MUCH CONTENT
BEING GENERATED THAT IT'S
DIFFICULT FOR THEM TO EVEN BE
AWARE OF WHAT'S GOING ON AND
WHAT'S BEING PUBLISHED.
WHEN AUTHORITIES ARE ADVISING
THEM AND NOTIFYING THEM OF THIS
TYPE OF CONTENT BEING CREATED,
IT'S VERY DIFFICULT TO KIND OF
CATCH IT BEFORE THE AVALANCHE
WHILE IT'S STARTED AND THE ONLY
REAL TIME LIKE RUSSELL SAID
BEFORE IS TO CATCH IT BEFORE
IT'S POSTED SO IT DOES NOT SPAWN
ITSELF.
IT'S BECOME AN INFINITE GAME OF
CAT AND MOUSE THAT IT'S
EXTREMELY DIFFICULT TO STOP
SOMETHING ONCE IT'S MADE ITS WAY
INTO THE MARKET.
LAUREN: MAYBE THERE NEEDS TO BE
A DELAY WHEN IT COMES TO
LIVESTREAMING OR MAYBE THERE
NEEDS TO BE NEW POLICY WHEN IT
COMES TO VIOLENT CONTENT
PERPETUATED ON THESE SITES.
I WANT TO PIVOT AND TALK ABOUT
THE WORK THAT GOOGLE, ANOTHER
BIG TECH COMPANY, HAS DONE
SPECIFICALLY IN CHINA.
I WILL START WITH YOU, RUSSELL.
I WANT YOU TO LISTEN TO
SOMETHING THE SENATOR FROM
MISSOURI HAD TO SAY TO THE
CHAIRMAN OF THE JOINT CHIEFS OF
STAFF.
>> YOU'RE TELLING ME THAT
GOOGLE, AN AMERICAN COMPANY
SUPPOSEDLY, IS REFUSING TO WORK
WITH THE DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE
BUT IS DOING WORK WITH CHINA, IN
CHINA, IN A WAY THAT AT LEAST
INDIRECTLY BENEFITS THE CHINESE
GOVERNMENT?
IS THAT CORRECT?
>> THE WORK THAT GOOGLE IS DOING
IN CHINA IS INDIRECTLY
BENEFITING THE CHINESE MILITARY
AND I HAVE BEEN VERY PUBLIC ON
THIS ISSUE AS WELL.
IN FACT, THE WAY I DESCRIBED IT
TO OUR INDUSTRY PARTNERS IS
LOOK, WE'RE THE GOOD GUYS.
THE VALUES THAT WE REPRESENT AND
THE SYSTEM THAT WE REPRESENT IS
THE ONE THAT WILL ALLOW AND HAS
ALLOWED YOU TO THRIVE.
LAUREN: YOU HEARD FROM GENERAL
DUNFORD THERE.
HOW DETRIMENTAL IS THIS TO US IN
AMERICA?
>> I HONESTLY DON'T THINK IT'S
PARTICULARLY DETRIMENTAL AT ALL.
I FEEL LIKE THAT STATEMENT IS
KIND OF INTENTIONALLY MADE TO BE
VAGUE AND YOU CAN'T REALLY GIVE
A LOT OF DETAILS IN THIS
SITUATION TO BEGIN WITH SO IT'S
HARD TO KNOW WHAT EXACTLY IT
MEANS TO BE INDIRECTLY, YOU
KNOW, BENEFITING ONE GOVERNMENT
OR ANOTHER.
I WILL SAY THAT IT'S REALLY
INTERESTING, THE WAY THAT THIS
WORKS KIND OF BACK AND FORTH,
THAT GOOGLE HAS BEEN TRYING TO
ENTER THE CHINESE MARKET FOR A
REALLY LONG TIME, AND THE LAST
TIME THAT IT MADE SOME SUCCESS
BEFORE ITS SERVICES GOT LIMITED,
WE DIDN'T SEE THESE SAME
COMPLAINTS APPEAR.
LAUREN: JOSEPH, DO YOU AGREE?
>> I DON'T AGREE.
I CAN TELL YOU WHY.
PROJECT DRAGONFLY WAS A
CENSORSHIP SEARCH ENGINE FOR
CHINA.
THAT IS SPECIFICALLY HOW THEY
ARE AIDING THE GOVERNMENT,
TOTALITARIAN TYPE OF APPROACH.
WHAT GOOGLE IS DOING IS ENABLING
THE CULTURE OF DICTATORSHIP.
THE REASON WHY THEY PULLED BACK
OUT OF THAT IS BECAUSE OF THAT
PROJECT, HOW IT WAS UNREVEALED
TO THE MARKET.
WHAT'S INTERESTING ENOUGH IS
OVER THE LAST THREE MONTHS,
THERE'S BEEN OVER 1,000 CODE
CHANGES TO PROJECT DRAGONFLY.
I THINK WHAT YOU ARE SEEING, THE
REASON WHY GOOGLE HAD TO PULL
OUT OF PROJECT MAIDEN WITH THE
DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE IS BECAUSE
THEY WEREN'T UNWILLING TO LET'S
SAY UNWIND THE TIME OR HAD TOO
MUCH OF A CONFLICT OF INTEREST
WITH CHINA THAT IN ORDER TO DO
CERTAIN TOP SECRET PROJECTS WITH
THE DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE,
BECAUSE I KNOW THEM BOTH VERY
WELL, YOU HAVE TO ACTUALLY
DECONFLICT YOURSELF BECAUSE
GOOGLE CANNOT DECONFLICT ITSELF
BECAUSE IT'S DONE TOO MUCH FOR
PROJECT DRAGONFLY, IT'S NOT ABLE