Here now
to discuss
is Darryl Cohen, former
Fulton County
assistant district attorney.
Welcome to the program from Atlanta.
Darryl, great to have you on.
So this was a
sweeping large indictment
here and also narrow in scope.
We'll get through to the details
in a moment.
But it's also something
we've been waiting for
for about two years.
Now from this district attorney.
What do you make of the charges
and the fact
that it's not just Donald Trump,
but you have 19 included,
including Donald Trump,
have been charged?
Well, Brianna,
first of all, it's good to be here
and thank you.
The fact that there are 19 people helps.
Bonnie Willis, who's the elected D.A.
in Fulton County,
make this a RICO or racketeering charge,
makes this easier for her
to prosecute crimes
that took place
outside of Atlanta, Fulton
County, Georgia,
but still in the state of Georgia.
So that is not surprising.
And it gives her the opportunity
to go after a lot more people.
Now, the fact that there are 19
people indicted
tells me they're looking
for some throwaways.
They're hoping and expecting that one
or more of these people will
turn state's evidence
will testify
against a codefendant, Donald Trump.
And the more that they can put
pressure on people
the more likely
he or she or they will say to themselves,
do I really want to put myself
in jeopardy?
Do I really want to put myself
in jeopardy of going to prison?
The answer is no.
So I'll do whatever
it takes to keep myself a free person.
All right.
Because in the other indictments,
this is now the fourth.
They involve
whether it's Donald Trump just alone,
as we saw
in Jack Smith's
indictment, just a couple of weeks ago,
also related to trying to overturn
the 20, 20 election,
that that was a federal charge
that was just focused
on the former president
there have been other cases
where there have been a couple
of others that have been indicted.
And the former president
in some of these cases
is paying for their legal defense.
In this case,
it would be rather difficult
for the former president
to pay for all 19
or all 18 others
that have been charged here.
Well,
I don't know how much money
each individual lawyer
or lawyers are charging.
And I don't know
what Donald Trump's pocket book has in it
or what's left in it,
but either way, it's a very,
very heavy indictment.
And I think part of what Fani Willis
is strategy
is, is the more people involved,
the heavier the weight of Donald Trump
to be fearful and to stop striking back,
because what she wants
is not what he's doing.
What she wants
is what normal defendants do
when he or she or they have been charged.
They keep their mouth shut
and they try to beat it in court
in any way they know how.
In this instance, our former president
is lashing back out
as if he's backed into
and he is back to to a corner
and he's saying,
get out of my way
because this is a persecution,
not a prosecution.
Explain to our viewers
what a RICO case means.
Okay.
RICO is a racketeering charge
and it's all encompassing.
So it might be a little piece
of the action over here,
a small piece over here,
a larger piece here.
But you put it all together
and it becomes a major case
because it depends.
Each individual
person may not have done anything
that illegal but he or she put together.
Think of a puzzle.
We're putting this puzzle together
and piece by piece,
the puzzle pieces don't mean much
but when you put them all together,
you have a finished puzzle
and you can see what's going on.
So that's basically
what we're talking about.
The simple
individual all pieces are going together
in a complicated, large prosecution.
Among the other charges,
we have election
fraud, false documents,
false statements, witness intimidation.
Let's just drill down
on some of these other instances.
And I want to get you to respond
to what exactly what law.
Finally, Willis is saying the president
or these 18 others broke.
Let's start with that famous phone call
now that took place on January 2nd 2021.
The former president
made a call at the time
to the secretary of state
in Georgia
Brad Raffensperger
asking for 11,000 votes to be found.
Let's play that for our viewers
So look
all I want
to do is this I just want to find
11,780 votes
which is one more that we have
because we won the state
So for an amateur
just listening
without a legal background
that does sound suspicious.
But tell us exactly what laws
may have been broken here
with that request.
Well, it depends.
If you take it at face value
and we haven't heard
the entire recording,
but if you just take it at face value,
it could be, hey, do a recount.
I'm certain
that 11,780 votes were miscounted.
I just keep looking
because there may have been a malfunction
in one or more of the machines,
or it could be more sinister.
You need to change 11,780 votes.
So I could be
the winner of the electoral votes
in Georgia
and I can be reelected as president.
It just depends on how you interpret it,
and you cannot take it by itself.
It has to be
part of a larger conversation,
part of a larger conspiracy.
That Bonnie will as has charged Trump
and 18 other people with.
And would you assume that
that's what
finally Willis
has been able to prove or put together
that this was part of a larger
conspiracy, as opposed to just
the president
saying, listen,
I hope we can find 11,000 votes
Well, Brian, the truth is this is part of
why it's a RICO case, in my view,
because she's taking pieces of the puzzle
and taking them where they are separated
and they don't mean
very much of anything.
But when they are put together,
it means that there's a conspiracy
with Trump
going after people who were electors,
fake electors,
putting pressure on Brad Raffensperger,
the secretary of state,
that he should not have done.
And so it becomes a question of
is this just political or is it political
and a crime?
And finally, Willis
and the DA's office have decided
that all the things that happened
as a result of his loss
of the presidential election
were criminal.
Not just civil, not just
rotten eggs, not just I was
mistreated,
but I was
robbed of what I rightfully want.
And he's saying this.
And the people around him
were trying to make it happen
without the voters,
according to funny and the indictment,
without a voter's consent,
because the voters had voted one way
and they were trying to change votes
to make him the winner.
If he is convicted
and he does become president.
Unlike federal charges
where he could, in theory,
pardon himself,
that would not be the case.
In this state trial.
And at the same time,
if I'm correct,
I believe
that this Georgia is one of three states
where the governor cannot even issue
a pardon.
That is for he's been convicted.
No, that is correct.
Had he been let's just take a giant leap
and say that he's reelected, he's
elected again as the president.
And let's also say he's been convicted
in the state
of Georgia, in Fulton County.
There is a minimum
five year
prison sentence that's tacked on to Rico.
None of the other charges
I'm not talking about
just RICO, just racketeering.
And no, the governor
of the state of Georgia
does not have the power to pardon anyone.
It has to be the state board of Pardons
and Paroles.
And I believe it's after five years.
So he could be theoretically
the president
from behind bars in Georgia, though,
I don't see those scenarios working out,
but clearly they're a possibility.
Yeah.
Finally, Willis says
that she wants to bring this case
to trial within six months.
Do you think that
that's overly ambitious?
It's easier for me
to get to the moon
without a ship,
a rocket ship, without a space capsule
than her having this case
finished in six months?
It's just not going to come to the courts
in six months.
There are too many lawyers involved.
We know there will be at least 19.
There may be more.
There are too many cases,
too many motions to dismiss, motions
to remove
to federal court, motions
for everything you can think of
and a lot
that you can't think of
that will take up the court's time
and continue to delay this case.
In my view,
there's no way
that we can even come close
to a six month trial date.
Yeah.
Another difference here
is that the district attorney, Fani
Willis, is a Democrat
as an elected official,
unlike Jack Smith,
who was appointed
by the attorney general.
And I'll add another thing is that
whenever this trial does
take place,
that the cameras will be allowed
in the courtroom.
Another distinction
between a state trial
and a federal trial.
Darryl Cohen, I wish we had more time.
We'll continue
to be covering this story
in the weeks and months to come.
Thank you so much, though, for helping
break it down for us.
Thank you very much.